Bad Client or my fault?

Adam J McKay

Adam J McKay

Veteran
Hey guys,

I did a wedding for this couple a while ago (photographed). They paid me $1000 dollars. I was there all day with 2 assistants. We discussed prior to the wedding that my style of photography is very photojournalistic, I dislike posed shots and the said the same. So I shoot the wedding, nobody was ever prepared for pictures, it was chaos all day, we had to shoot all the "posed" shots at the end of the night when the sun was setting right in their faces. Despite all of this I managed to put together about 160 of what I thought were the best pictures, pictures that I would have been satisfied with for my wedding. I met with the couple showed them the images on my comp before printing they said they were satisfied. Today I get a call and it's the couple, the wedding was 2 months ago. They said they arn't satisfied and that the prints suck, so I said that fine do you want me to reprint them? Then she says they are all cropped wrong, nobody is centered in the frame (which was intentional), etc etc. She says how this other guy would have done this and that for this amount. She says none of the family likes the pictures. I told her I would do what I can to make her happy, go over some pictures, retouch them, reprint them.

To be clear, she had seen my photography before the wedding so it's not like my style was a big surprise to her.

You can see some of the pictures, which she doesn't like, HERE.

What should I do?


Thanks
 
Those are some great shots you've go there. As for if its the client or you, I think that the client is a little loony =P. Good job.

If I were you I would just go back and crop some of the photos so that they may be less artistic but more "centered" like the clients said that wanted.
 
The pics are fine and look good. This couple clearly have no idea what they want nor have any idea about what looks good in photography. But as the previous poster suggested, crop it they way they want, print, deliver and chalk that down as experience.
 
The lady is probably just mad the camera added about 75 pounds. Oh... wait, no probably twinkies did that, the camera added only 10 ;)
 
Thanks guys. I am meeting with her tomorrow. We are going to go over all the shots I have she is going to hand pick the ones she likes and we are going to go from there. It sucks hard when your art is a business and people make you feel like your useless. She actually said that it looks like someone random person took them with a point and shoot, really one of the most insulting things she could have ever said. We will see how tomorrow goes.
 
I like the pictures you have up (though the one at the railing might not be too "wedding"-y, I really like it as an image of... doubts?).

However, just to view the other side, by your own description it seems like you were in less control of the situation than you wanted to be, and that THAT might have compromised the final product a bit. Also, there may have been some miscommunication - "not posed" to some people means candid and journalistic, to others means "you gather everyone into one place and arrange them then tell them all to turn their head in a different direction" or perhaps better said "informally posed". To many people, the wedding album includes certain pictures (bride and parents, groom and parents, whole bride family with couple, whole groom family with couple, etc.), and certainly families have had fights after the fact over who appears (or doesn't) in which photos. Certainly it seems like, one way or another, in the future you should make sure to better plan when the "posed" shots will be taken. Really, this is often very difficult, cause there are always many time and attention demands at a wedding that you really have to have a firm plan (agreed to with the couple), and a real ability to corral all the necessary people into the shots.

So: I'm not so quick to write off the couple's concerns as ignorant or boneheaded. I'd work with them and try to make them happy, and perhaps discuss the misunderstandings apologetically, and perhaps modify your price. For you - guessing this is your first wedding - I think this is a good learning experience, and, more importantly, has provided you with some really nice demo material you can show future clients which will highlight and make clear your style of work. A lot of folks do a wedding or two for free just in order to gather some experience and demo material before charging - so in my opinion, even if you take a significant cut in price, in a way you come out ahead.

Just my 2 cents...
 
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They have already paid me and I have paid out the other photographers. So I will be losing money if I give them any money back. I can also see where they are coming from and do not blame them, there was a serious miscommunication on both out parts. I think her main issue is the fact that I shot the wedding almost entirely with my 50mm. The reason I did this is because I had 2 other photographers, one was shooting a 17-70 F4 and the other various lenses throughout the day. So when there was low light situation or a nice depth of field would have been appropriate, the 50mm came in quite handy. But with a 50mm on a less then full fram sensor it is not as wide as it could be so photos turn out with a cinematic feel. Which for me isn't an issue but for them I guess it is.

This is an example of what she hates. It's not centered and I "chopped" half of her out. Personally I love the picture. However I guess im not out to please myself. I think this is going to be the end of my commercial photography gigs, or at least weddings.
 

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I would rather have to go and storm the wire to take out a machine gun nest in World War I than have to deal with a bridezilla!
 
OK... someone has to say this... artistic as the pic is, NO bride would want a picture that emphasizes the chubby parts. She may be complaining about other things, but I think what she's really saying is that some of the pics are not flattering for her. Zerg, you look kinda scrawny in your avatar, and maybe don't worry about such things... but as artistic as the pictures may or may not be, the couple want pictures that make them look good. This last picture is not one of those, and you'll never sell them on its artistic merits. If this picture was composed such that it was just part of her head in focus on the right, they might have liked it artistically. But it's mostly chub. No way that's going in the album!

Just 'cause you were paid already doesn't mean you can't refund some. As I said, even if you just break even, I'd say you're ahead of the game. And, while I wouldn't suggest you give up commercial photography gigs (I like your work!), I do think you may not have the proper sensibilities for weddings at this point... artistic vision is NOT the top priority there!
 
I saw something similar on TV Court. The photographer was accused of not following the customers instructions for the job that was done for their event. He took pictures that included some that werent requested and the client used that in her argument to say that none of the pics were anything that she wanted. In this case, you did a job and its like, "look buddy, time is money." Don't issue a refund. If they are unhappy and you agree with their claims then refund a portion. If you use their pictures for you portfolio, keep them all. If you wont use them, then let them keep the pictures and part ways. The truth is you dont have to refund a dime. You knwo what too, I think wedding photographs should be posed as well because there are some traditional settings that you may want in your album considering that they saw your style already you should give them the contract they signed and let em take u to court.
 
I'd say tell her no. From the pictures I saw, she should be very happy with what she got for $1k. They are beautiful and she has no clue what being artistic is. If she's this much of a jerk, she'll probably be divorced within 5 years.

She knew what she was buying when she hired you. If she didn't properly communicate what she wanted, then that is her fault and not yours. The question is, if you make her mad will that hurt you from getting other clients (from your pictures, I'd say that the quality of your work will override her loud mouth.)


Matthew
 
Not bad work...DO you have contracts?

To protect yourself you should do something like

1.) Event deposit - holds the date - non refundable if canceled.
2.) Shooters Fee - Payable at venue or a few days before...Take this before you take the camera out of the bag. Non Refundable

3.) Balance - Payable when proofs are delivered. If they hate the proofs they can forfeit the media and the remaining balance.

Not ideal but the deposit and shooters fee should encompass at least 50% of the agreed price.

This way you don't loose money if you have a real mess on your hands. You can void the balance due and keep their media.
 
The pictures look good - as candids. Which is what the ones you posted clearly are.

Now, I've taped one wedding - photographed none. The one I did tape was for my wife's college roommate - ten years after the fact. She and the husband wanted a "casual" piece, without all the trouble of having posed or staged situations. I insisted that I come along during the stills sessions and shot those too.

Different situation for a stills guy. I think you should almost be required to decline the job if the couple is too passive about exactly what it is that they want or if they are uncooperative when it comes to staging "classical" poses for your purposes. Why? Well, your shoot is an obvious reason.

You turned in exactly what you'd promised. Candid coverage of the day, with real moments caught in time. Not what they wanted. They, being psycho wedding people, had no concept what they wanted and didn't waste much time asking for it.

I would not refund a dime, but I'd make every attempt to crop, vignette, blur - whatever - a few key pieces that they can put in the album. A bad situation that can easily be remedied. I would not discuss what you're going to do, but perhaps you could show up with an example of one of their images that has been turned into a classic-style print.

Good luck!

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zergtherobot said:
So I shoot the wedding, nobody was ever prepared for pictures, it was chaos all day, we had to shoot all the "posed" shots at the end of the night when the sun was setting right in their faces.
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See, my opinion differs from the other folks here when I read this part. Zerg, maybe you can clarify. When you say "we had to shooth the "posed" shots..." my interpretation is that there was indeed an expectation on both your part and on the part of the couple that there would indeed be some of the expected, planned, posed wedding shots. If that's not the case, please clarify!

Anyway, my perspective is different from that of folks who are primarily filmmakers. I am primarily a classical music / theatrical shooter. When you're dealing with once-in-a-lifetime live events, as of course wedding folks do, the bottom line is that first and foremost you have to accomodate your clients wants and needs. Even, in most cases, their unspoken ones. Some people like that situation, some don't; it's just a difference of temperament. But no live event shooter would consider a job "good" or "successful" if the client was not happy with the ONLY memory they have of their big event. Like I said, a problem like the one you're having is sort of a rite of passage that everyone goes through. How you handle it determines whether you'll want to continue in the field, and whether you'll be able to build a client base.

In my experience, if you're quick to do all you can to remedy a situation, and offer a refund, the clients will not take the refund, and will feel better about the whole thing. It's like magic. But trying to convince them that they SHOULD like what they got will make an angry client and bad recommendations.
 
I think these are really artful, beautiful images. People without good taste or creativity probably can't recognize good art or talent. And given that an artist is always subjected to morons' opinions, you can't try to cater to them all. I'd say you gave them more than what they paid for.
 
We did have an agreement to shoot some of the classic posed shots. They were incredibly disorganised and left them until 20 minuts before sunset. We had to rush through them with the sun setting directly into their face. There was no real prep time. I had seen the location for all of 20 minutes the day before. The wedding itself was very casual and laid back, and so was the wedding party, so it was hard to get anything serious done. Their response to alot of things was: "Do your thing"...Okay. I did my thing, I presented them with photos that I would have graciously paid $1000 dollars for if it were my wedding. Throughout the process we sat down twice before print to make sure everything was ok, the sessions were filled with awww, look at that, oh my god, thats so sweet etc etc. At one point they even offered to pay more. Then I get the photos printed and they hate the pictures? Not only that, "everyone" thinks they are crap. Coming from a community with a population of about 5 thousand this is an issue which has pretty much forced me out of the commercial photography business.

Lesson learned.

If the day comes that I do decide to do another wedding, its going to have written contracts. This is turning out to be a nightmare.
 
The problem is that when they first talked to you and you explained your style and they looked at your pictures they decided they wanted your style of art, but after the couple of months of hearing others say that they don't like your style then they changed there minds. Happens all the time with clients even when at first they love your stuff but the parents complain or friends tell them they should have had something other than what they recieved they start to question their decision.

Your shots are very nice but we have not see all of them but I assume that enough of your pictures flatter the couple. I like your style and I'm sure they loved them until they heard from others.

I wouldn't give any money back because they said they were happy when they first received their pictures. I would meet with them and sit down and see if you can make them happy but I would charge for the extra printing if you printed the pictures.

If anything you didn't charge enough for the shoot considering the help that you had. I do video and do some weddings if they pay enough and one of my friends is a very good wedding photog and he sells standard packages and some like yours which is more artful and he charges $2500 for the standard and more for the artful packages.

When people don't pay enough for something they will always diminish the value of the product after a short period of time but if they pay a high price at the top of the market they usually appreciate it even when others say something negitive and will defend their decision.

You shoot good photos and have a unique style and I hope you keep developing it. Would love to see more of the pictures.

Good luck.
 
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zergtherobot said:
They have already paid me and I have paid out the other photographers. So I will be losing money if I give them any money back. I....
Click to expand...

Just FYI, having paid the other photographers doesn't enter into the picture in any way. Even if your client had completely refused to pay you from the start, you would have still been obligated to pay them. They did what you told them to do and it's not their fault if your client doesn't like the results.
 
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