backing out of gigs you agreed to take when higher paying gigs come along

J

Josh Bass

Veteran
Simply wanted to get the group's thoughts on this.

I am a freelancer/crew member in various production positions, and was talking to another freelancer about this. He has his "real" clients, those that know/understand/pay regular/full rates per day for production work. But sometimes he'll do smaller/indie projects that are still paid, but at only a fraction of what he would normally charge. However, he apparently feels no compunction about dropping those gigs upon being offered a conflicting gig (i.e. same day) that pays a better rate.

To be clear, I'm not talking about offering the DP $25 a day. A more realistic scenario would be a crew member who normally makes $500 a day being offered $200. So something that's at least fathomable.

Wanted to see what you guys think of this practice. Personally, I think if you agree to do something paid, you should follow through regardless of rate. If you don't agree, shouldn't take a job in the first place. If you're that afraid of missing a conflicting/higher paying gig, simply don't take the lower paying jobs, period. Don't take them on the condition that if a better offer comes, you're gone. I feel that paying someone should, among other things, "reserve their time." In other words, one reason I'm paying you is to hold you for that day and keep you from dropping my project for a trip to the beach (for example).

Do we agree? Am I crazy?

PS this is NOT ABOUT SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED TO ME. Just wondering about what you think of this practice.
 
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Yeah I'd agree for the most part. In the past I've had to pass up on higher paying gigs for stuff I already agreed to do. It's always been for people that I often shoot for though, so I'll pass off a possible one-time gig for a company from out of town to shoot for people that I regularly work for. However if it was a low paid, one time gig and a regular client comes along and offers a better rate I would very likely think about dropping the other gig out of loyalty. So I'm pretty much a hypocrite.
 
If I agree to do something for a given rate. I will complete the job for that rate, when I said I would. PERIOD. People have been taking that to the bank for over three decades now. (Except that one time. I mean the guy was offering magic beans... MAGIC BEANS!!!)
 
Yeah I didn't think about the out of town thing. Burn a bridge with an out of towner, oh effing well. Burn a bridge with a local, get known as an unreliable flake.
 
I've had that happen to me. I was shooting a short and I hired a production sound guy for a 3 day shoot for his regular rate. He got a feature. He gave me about a week, as I recall. In that case, I think it's OK. I don't blame him for taking that feature. It would have cost him a lot of money to turn that gig down and a week was not great notice, but enough so that I could get someone else. I would ring him up again. I was on another shoot with him and he's a good guy and a solid, engaged sound guy. He just got a better gig. It happens with actors all the time. I just think you have to be judicious.

If he called me up the night before, I would have been dead. I would have had cast and crew and craft services, location, transportation locked and no sound. So the next day stuff is not OK in my book but with enough notice to work something out, I think you have to be realistic, especially if you're paying less than the regular rate.

I don't hold a grudge but I haven't called him back yet either ... so that may say something ;)

I had it happen once with hair and makeup and that makeup artist asked if it was OK to send a sub, who she said could do the job well. She did. It was fine.
 
it really depends on being up front about it...

if you take a lower paying gig but want to also be open to taking a higher paying gig, be crystal clear about it when you agree to do the lower paying gig.

as long as you follow through with what's agreed to, then it's moral. if there is no agreement except that you say you're going to do it and then ditch it for something else, then it's simply not moral.

if you tell them, hey, i'll do it, but if another gig comes up for my full rate, i would need to take it, even if it's the day before, but i'll give you the option to match the rate to keep me onboard, then if they agree to that 100% then it's completely moral.

hence why contracts are so important, makes clear what everyone agrees to
 
Pass the job to a reliable friend who can also do the job satisfactorily.
Its up to you if you want to give the client the choice or call in sick.
 
Be careful, as if you piss off the wrong person they might hold a grudge and try to sue you or if local will spread the word that you are unreliable. What sucks is you might very well really need the money the bigger paying gig offers, and you could be super reliable 99.9% of the time, but then that one time haunts you as some jerk turns it into a mission from god to destroy your good name.

Somewhat related example: I knew a dude who had the DJ for his wedding drop out of the gig like a month before the wedding day. Not great news but still, a month to find someone else is a decent amount of time. The guy lost it, threatening to sue the pants off the DJ if he didn't show up or find someone else. Words like, "I told this DJ I'd make his life a living hell if he didn't fix the situation!" I understand the anger and frustration, but at the same time people can get a bit crazy. Now this was for a wedding, which is comparable IMO as both a wedding and a film or commercial shoot can require lots of time and planning to make it all happen.
 
My rule number 1 : Never back out of something Ive agreed to do. However, given due notice from someone i.e. actor / soundy / camera and their reason is theyre working on something better for their career Im OK with that on the hiring side. Give me 1 day notice and I wont hire you again.
 
J Davis said:
Pass the job to a reliable friend who can also do the job satisfactorily.
Its up to you if you want to give the client the choice or call in sick.
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This was what I was going to suggest. Most tradespeople have arrangements with people they pass overflow work to and cover for each other as needed. If you can offer a replacement and get them up to speed it is better than leaving someone in the lurch. Of course your reputation will be effected by the job your buddy does so you will want to have someone you are comfortable recommending.
 
The crews I hire... they'll get someone to replace them... that is just as good or better... if they can't they still come to work....

Film is a small world.. you'd be surprised how many times on set... I've run into people who have worked with people I've worked with before... has happened to me in upstate NY, TN, CA and MO... film can be a small world... and being a producer... I won't hire someone again who bails on me...
 
Echoing many of the same sentiments.

If I take a job, it will be done one way or the other. If a notably better job comes along, I'll either work to find a replacement or suggest a few suitable replacements to the producer. If I don't find a replacement, I work the original job as scheduled. Either way, I remain open and honest to both parties through the process and so far it's worked out well... the SOP is to first find a possible replacement, then contact the original client, then (if original client is fine with it) confirm with the new client. Mixing up that order would most likely end badly.

Two of my biggest clients are somewhat lower paying, but frequent and steady, and schedule jobs ludicrously in advance (1-2 months or more for day gigs). One has no problem if I request a reschedule, the other usually just finds another camera dude for that day (and also cancels jobs on short notice with annoying frequency).
 
I don't know about anyone else but if I say I'm going to do something I do it on schedule, so far. I've have been in the past, been offered more money to make a project a priority but I said I have other jobs to complete first. I don't care if it was 2K. I have previous commitments. I understand though. The proper business thing to do probably is to go for the money. It's a personal call I guess. It's all in hindsight and experience.

//edit: These days, I'd go for the money. It's just the bottom line.
Paying jobs take priority. But you still have to fullfill your previous agreements. Maybe on a longer schedule.
 
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There's no simple answer to this, as it completely depends on each circumstance.

For instance if you agree to shoot something, say a wedding, and at the last minute are offered another wedding shoot for higher pay, you should probably stick with your first agreement.

However if you agree to shoot a wedding, and then get offered a job on a major film that could legitimately enhance your career, well frankly you gotta do what you gotta do. Ideally of course you either give them more than enough advanced noticed of your change in plans or you get a friend that can deliver a comprable product and hand the job over to them, because I believe morally you still do have an obligation to that client. But major opportunities only come around every so often, and I don't think it would be wise to ignore them.
 
jghenderson said:
There's no simple answer to this, as it completely depends on each circumstance.

For instance if you agree to shoot something, say a wedding, and at the last minute are offered another wedding shoot for higher pay, you should probably stick with your first agreement.

However if you agree to shoot a wedding, and then get offered a job on a major film that could legitimately enhance your career, well frankly you gotta do what you gotta do. Ideally of course you either give them more than enough advanced noticed of your change in plans or you get a friend that can deliver a comprable product and hand the job over to them, because I believe morally you still do have an obligation to that client. But major opportunities only come around every so often, and I don't think it would be wise to ignore them.
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Yes. Those were the words I was looking for. ..........dammit. :)
 
now that i think of it i have a similar situation which happened last august...

i needed a projectionist for my festival, easy gig.

called in the favor to someone who owed me quite a bit after several "favor rate" 15 hour days of shooting.

locked him in 3ish months in advance, and repeatedly confirmed the dates with him as it came closer, i'd say 3-4 times i reconfirmed.

2 days before the festival, he calls in to say he can't make it.

he DID say he would find me a suitable replacement. ok, but...

No replacement came, no call to apologize, no call to even say he couldn't find a replacement.

needless to say, since then i've had several shoots that i would have used him on since then, but my money has instead gone to people who deserve it.

oh, and was he ditching for another gig? nope, he wanted to stay on vacation longer.
 
I agree that it depends on the situation like jghenderson said. If someone gets a once-in-a-lifetime type opportunity I won't begrudge them for jumping away from a low paying indie that most likely won't see the light of day anyway. Anytime I've taken a 'between gigs' type of gig I've always been up front that if a 'regular gig' comes along I'll have to take it and if the other person isn't comfortable with that then I'll pass on the lowering paying gig (and most likely recommend a friend or two that might be interested in it). As long as everyone is clear up front on what could happen, and makes contingency plans accordingly, I don't think there should be a problem.
 
Ok, you guys got me with some of your examples. I didn't originally consider staying loyal to a 1 day gig and passing up a month's worth of work to do so, or a wedding vs. career-booster movie gig.

The idea of finding a suitable replacement is cool, but just for the sake of argument I thought of a couple issues. What if your unique vision/working method is what someone wanted, and any replacement, no matter how good, is simply not going to be YOU? Also, again with our original example of a $500/day guy working for $200, well now you have to find ANOTHER guy of that skill level/caliber (who, likewise, probably commands a similar rate) who will work for the same rate in your stead, or else the replacement would be a less experienced person, which is not what the client originally signed on for.
 
Josh Bass said:
Ok, you guys got me with some of your examples. I didn't originally consider staying loyal to a 1 day gig and passing up a month's worth of work to do so, or a wedding vs. career-booster movie gig.

The idea of finding a suitable replacement is cool, but just for the sake of argument I thought of a couple issues. What if your unique vision/working method is what someone wanted, and any replacement, no matter how good, is simply not going to be YOU? Also, again with our original example of a $500/day guy working for $200, well now you have to find ANOTHER guy of that skill level/caliber (who, likewise, probably commands a similar rate) who will work for the same rate in your stead, or else the replacement would be a less experienced person, which is not what the client originally signed on for.
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Well what if, say, the characteristics I look for in a mate are exactly exhibited by Emma Stone, but I can't have Emma Stone so I have to look for a comprable person, which isn't going to be easy/possible. I don't really know what to say, sometimes it's just not fair.
 
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