SHORT: Back to Fort Russell (WESTERN SHOT ON RED)
- Thread starter Rdwomack2
- Start date
00:003 no eagle sound ?
it starts with the woman but we don't see much... That's good... Don't reveal it to fast/quick
Some more horse-sound would have been nice. (walking horse)
00:58: that sound is a little bit to much left.... Pan it a little more center...let's say if 100% would be center, about 80% left
L--------------------------C--------------------------R
about
here
Nice ambience background
Again the same isue which I hear in many films here: watch out for left right, right left left left right right left right in sound.
01:09 when he opens the bottle...it only sounds right. Dialogues, SFX, foley are ALWAYS mono. and panned center or sometimes a little left or right...
many gunshots in a war-scene is "ambience" and could be stereo
The dialogues are ADR ? They're a little bit out of sync here and there and it sounds like it's "pasted" on the scene.
01:57, she's in the center of the screen but sounds right side..
05:05, left/right isue...he's in the center but sound is coming from right side only
08:12 The dialogue is distored here: nothing much you can do about. And the left right stereo mono isue. Put this all in MONO and pan it center.
It's good you didn't use music 100% of the time.
it starts with the woman but we don't see much... That's good... Don't reveal it to fast/quick
Some more horse-sound would have been nice. (walking horse)
00:58: that sound is a little bit to much left.... Pan it a little more center...let's say if 100% would be center, about 80% left
L--------------------------C--------------------------R
about
here
Nice ambience background
Again the same isue which I hear in many films here: watch out for left right, right left left left right right left right in sound.
01:09 when he opens the bottle...it only sounds right. Dialogues, SFX, foley are ALWAYS mono. and panned center or sometimes a little left or right...
many gunshots in a war-scene is "ambience" and could be stereo
The dialogues are ADR ? They're a little bit out of sync here and there and it sounds like it's "pasted" on the scene.
01:57, she's in the center of the screen but sounds right side..
05:05, left/right isue...he's in the center but sound is coming from right side only
08:12 The dialogue is distored here: nothing much you can do about. And the left right stereo mono isue. Put this all in MONO and pan it center.
It's good you didn't use music 100% of the time.
john threat
Carbonite Member
good work dude!
dre83 is right - get that sound fixed. get some sound effects in there dude.. (www.sounddogs.com) - no eagle sound? wow! Also dialouge dips under the music some times.
dre83 is right - get that sound fixed. get some sound effects in there dude.. (www.sounddogs.com) - no eagle sound? wow! Also dialouge dips under the music some times.
Fired as in they were going to get a paycheck, but once I heard the production audio they didn't. Then I hired a sound designer afterward. That guy missed 2 of his deadlines. Then I brought on a 3rd guy for ADR and sound design, and his work was terrible. I'm not a sound guy. I never will be nor do I want to be, but my work is far better. So I fired him too.
I've done over 20 shorts now. Only 1 of them was I happy with the audio. IDK what it is with sound people in this city but I can't seem to find a decent one.
the eagle part was more "jokely"... 99,9999999999% would have put an eagle sound but you didn't because you don't want to follow mainstream
and have own ideas, so that's good.
And the eagle doesn't come back or has no further important thing to do. If that eagle for example would come back every time someone dies,
or a chicken lays an egg.. it would have been better to have a eagle sound though.
For "missing deadlines", well at one side I can understand that it's not easy to clean up "bad sound" in a short time. Maybe having other projects running also.
But then of course it's to the sound designer to say "sorry I'm to busy". Which you probably would have liked more so you could find someone else who had
plenty of time and could find an excuse to escape from doing the dishes...
Do you still have the project ? And do you know words like: OMF, AAF, 2pop, 30seconds countdown clock ?
and have own ideas, so that's good.
And the eagle doesn't come back or has no further important thing to do. If that eagle for example would come back every time someone dies,
or a chicken lays an egg.. it would have been better to have a eagle sound though.
For "missing deadlines", well at one side I can understand that it's not easy to clean up "bad sound" in a short time. Maybe having other projects running also.
But then of course it's to the sound designer to say "sorry I'm to busy". Which you probably would have liked more so you could find someone else who had
plenty of time and could find an excuse to escape from doing the dishes...
Do you still have the project ? And do you know words like: OMF, AAF, 2pop, 30seconds countdown clock ?
john threat
Carbonite Member
pretty much unwatchable without an eagle sound and poor sound thru-out. good luck with your flat unimaginative sound.
I have all the deliverable stuff. My producer has everything else. And I have no idea what OMF, AAF etc are.
In general AAF and OMF is about the same, but with some small differences, but there "goal" stays the same.
If you have finished an edit you will have different tracks with clips on it (video and sound). Now, to be able to hand over the soundclips in there position (as edited) so
the sound-editor can easily edit the sound, an OMF or AAF is made.
An OMF or AAF will only export the soundclips, but as they stay in there position. And you can move the clips (for example when out of sync), length them when needed for a smoother
crossfade etc.
An OMF or AAF is a copy of the soundtracks as it is (with different clips in it, different tracks) to hand it over to another program (like protools, nuendo,...)
Then a 2pop is to more easily sync the image and sound. You could say "yeaah, well everything starts on 0", but most of the time everything starts at 01:00:00:00. And if someone accidently moves things to much, there's no more reference.
In the picture you'll have a countdown clock 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 .. .. where on the 2 in frame you"ll here a tone of 1kHz of 1 frame length. With that it's more easely to sync everything (the 2 in image = the 1kHz waveform in sound). And it's more easy to check if everything is sync.
If you have finished an edit you will have different tracks with clips on it (video and sound). Now, to be able to hand over the soundclips in there position (as edited) so
the sound-editor can easily edit the sound, an OMF or AAF is made.
An OMF or AAF will only export the soundclips, but as they stay in there position. And you can move the clips (for example when out of sync), length them when needed for a smoother
crossfade etc.
An OMF or AAF is a copy of the soundtracks as it is (with different clips in it, different tracks) to hand it over to another program (like protools, nuendo,...)
Then a 2pop is to more easily sync the image and sound. You could say "yeaah, well everything starts on 0", but most of the time everything starts at 01:00:00:00. And if someone accidently moves things to much, there's no more reference.
In the picture you'll have a countdown clock 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 .. .. where on the 2 in frame you"ll here a tone of 1kHz of 1 frame length. With that it's more easely to sync everything (the 2 in image = the 1kHz waveform in sound). And it's more easy to check if everything is sync.
But that's all stuff my editor and sound designer should know. That is, if I had a sound designer that was reliable. For our next project my Producer is shopping all around. I think she's setting up interviews this time. But with our string of bad luck my overall impression with sound guys in this city is, shall we say, damaged. Thus far they've only cost me money and time and I got nothing, literally nothing, in return. I might as well have slept in and put more money in my paycheck.
jghenderson
Well-known member
This film makes me sad, not because it's bad, but because it has really good potential that is all but ruined by terrible sound.
How do you think I feel? Oh well, I got the funding for my feature with it. That's what counts.
Well, since you asked ...
- For the record: I like that the eagle makes no sound. I've heard the same canned red-tailed hawk noise dubbed over everything from vultures to pigeons, and it's a relief to encounter movie animals that don't vocalize constantly for our benefit.
- The Vasquez Rocks! Always nice seeing them, although they don't feel much like Wyoming.
- The women's costuming is very, very good; the men's costuming, I'm not so sure. The marshal appears to have a button-down flannel shirt, which would have been rare (if not completely unknown) before the 1890s. And the ten-gallon hats worn by the bandits basically didn't exist before Hollywood did. Period costuming is darned expensive; I assume you only had so much and spent where it would count the most.
- Gunfire and bullet hits are obvious CG fakes, but wisely minimized in editing. Better sound might have helped sell the effect ... uh, never mind. And the guns look a bit plasticky. Basically, same rule applies: if you think period costumes are expensive, just watch what happens when you bring practical bullet hits, blank rounds or period firearms onto your set.
- Cinematography is nice and crisp (maybe too crisp; Westerns love rough edges). You seem to have made a conscious decision not use any (or very little) fill light. Looks good and harsh, but sometimes it's hard to read expressions. And when everything is high-constrast, it doesn't direct our attention or give a sense of depth.
- Performances are good (Daniela Flynn especially). Kevin Dorian doesn't look remotely range- or war-hardened, but he has a magnificent voice, and uses it well.
- And finally: the story. I liked the opening shots, but really wondered why the marshal would make a female prisoner walk. Back then, "female weakness" was considered a medical fact; a marshal would be much more likely to lead the horse and let Andrea ride (bound, of course), not out of chivalry, but to avoid being slowed down. And to lessen the chances of getting there with a prisoner dead from exhaustion.
It struck me that Foster opened up around the campfire much too fast; he's known this woman for, at best, a few days, has no reason to like her or hold her in any regard, and yet he's already confiding his deepest horrors? He's not even drinking or doing anything else that might lower his inhibitions.
Andrea's story is one of those great provocative inspirations you can build a story around; until relatively recently, spousal rape was considered impossible. English common law explicitly said so from the 1700s on; by the mid-19th century, "radical feminists" in America were starting to speak out against it, but if Marshal Foster is at all a product of his time and place, he'd find Andrea's self-defense claim laughable.
Here are some useful (if squicky) facts related to Andrea's plight: Infant mortality back then was so high that a woman might carry three or four pregnancies to term for every child that survived past infancy. Births also weren't done with any medical supervision, so the birth canal and vaginal walls were often so scarred that sex became extremely painful for the woman. Suppose that Andrea had so far endured so many pregnancies (four or five, with no surviving children) that sex was sheer agony and when her husband forced himself on her, she finally decided she couldn't take any more. This might be enough to shock Foster (men back then frequently knew nothing about these aspects of women's health), jolt him out of his preconceived notions and into empathy.
Despite my cavils, the setup was good enough that I wanted more from the ending. Yes, I understand that by the end, Foster does the one thing he'd never have considered at the beginning, but I anticipated more of a sea change, for both him and Andrea. What if (BIG FAT SPOLER ALERT!) instead of defeating the bandits and letting her go, we have a more complex climax: Foster kills one of the bandits, but the other wounds him in the leg. He tries to finish Foster, but his gun's out of bullets. Andrea (whom they didn't consider a threat) has recovered a still-loaded gun from the dead bandit, but the way her hands are bound, she can't fire it. What she can do is break the stalemate by deciding who to toss it to: Foster or the surviving bandit.
The bandit makes her this offer: toss him the gun and she won't be hanged, because a dead marshal can't bring her in. She'll still be in the bandit's power (and likely raped) but at least she won't be hanged. Her response: "I'd rather be hanged." And she tosses the gun to Foster.
Foster kills the remaining bandit. While he's busy with that, Andrea gets his knife and cuts herself loose. She starts to walk away, free. He tells her to stop or he'll shoot. She dares him to do his worst and heads off down the trail. Foster holds his gun on her retreating figure ... and holds ... and holds ... and cut to black.
With that ending, Foster keeps his arc (although you may or may not want the ambiguous touch at the end) and Andrea gets one of her own: from utterly powerless to defying a gun with only the force of her will. A complete revolution for all concerned.
I'm normally reluctant to give people advice on story matters involving completed films; it has the feel of Monday-morning quarterbacking to it (you might conceivably fix the bad sound, but really, what can you do about the script now?). Maybe my jeremiad will be useful to you on your feature, which we would really like to have more details about. You still have a well-shot film that shows an instinct for good acting and engaging story ideas; I'm not surprised you won awards with this (which ones? The IMDb doesn't list any). Best of luck!
- For the record: I like that the eagle makes no sound. I've heard the same canned red-tailed hawk noise dubbed over everything from vultures to pigeons, and it's a relief to encounter movie animals that don't vocalize constantly for our benefit.
- The Vasquez Rocks! Always nice seeing them, although they don't feel much like Wyoming.
- The women's costuming is very, very good; the men's costuming, I'm not so sure. The marshal appears to have a button-down flannel shirt, which would have been rare (if not completely unknown) before the 1890s. And the ten-gallon hats worn by the bandits basically didn't exist before Hollywood did. Period costuming is darned expensive; I assume you only had so much and spent where it would count the most.
- Gunfire and bullet hits are obvious CG fakes, but wisely minimized in editing. Better sound might have helped sell the effect ... uh, never mind. And the guns look a bit plasticky. Basically, same rule applies: if you think period costumes are expensive, just watch what happens when you bring practical bullet hits, blank rounds or period firearms onto your set.
- Cinematography is nice and crisp (maybe too crisp; Westerns love rough edges). You seem to have made a conscious decision not use any (or very little) fill light. Looks good and harsh, but sometimes it's hard to read expressions. And when everything is high-constrast, it doesn't direct our attention or give a sense of depth.
- Performances are good (Daniela Flynn especially). Kevin Dorian doesn't look remotely range- or war-hardened, but he has a magnificent voice, and uses it well.
- And finally: the story. I liked the opening shots, but really wondered why the marshal would make a female prisoner walk. Back then, "female weakness" was considered a medical fact; a marshal would be much more likely to lead the horse and let Andrea ride (bound, of course), not out of chivalry, but to avoid being slowed down. And to lessen the chances of getting there with a prisoner dead from exhaustion.
It struck me that Foster opened up around the campfire much too fast; he's known this woman for, at best, a few days, has no reason to like her or hold her in any regard, and yet he's already confiding his deepest horrors? He's not even drinking or doing anything else that might lower his inhibitions.
Andrea's story is one of those great provocative inspirations you can build a story around; until relatively recently, spousal rape was considered impossible. English common law explicitly said so from the 1700s on; by the mid-19th century, "radical feminists" in America were starting to speak out against it, but if Marshal Foster is at all a product of his time and place, he'd find Andrea's self-defense claim laughable.
Here are some useful (if squicky) facts related to Andrea's plight: Infant mortality back then was so high that a woman might carry three or four pregnancies to term for every child that survived past infancy. Births also weren't done with any medical supervision, so the birth canal and vaginal walls were often so scarred that sex became extremely painful for the woman. Suppose that Andrea had so far endured so many pregnancies (four or five, with no surviving children) that sex was sheer agony and when her husband forced himself on her, she finally decided she couldn't take any more. This might be enough to shock Foster (men back then frequently knew nothing about these aspects of women's health), jolt him out of his preconceived notions and into empathy.
Despite my cavils, the setup was good enough that I wanted more from the ending. Yes, I understand that by the end, Foster does the one thing he'd never have considered at the beginning, but I anticipated more of a sea change, for both him and Andrea. What if (BIG FAT SPOLER ALERT!) instead of defeating the bandits and letting her go, we have a more complex climax: Foster kills one of the bandits, but the other wounds him in the leg. He tries to finish Foster, but his gun's out of bullets. Andrea (whom they didn't consider a threat) has recovered a still-loaded gun from the dead bandit, but the way her hands are bound, she can't fire it. What she can do is break the stalemate by deciding who to toss it to: Foster or the surviving bandit.
The bandit makes her this offer: toss him the gun and she won't be hanged, because a dead marshal can't bring her in. She'll still be in the bandit's power (and likely raped) but at least she won't be hanged. Her response: "I'd rather be hanged." And she tosses the gun to Foster.
Foster kills the remaining bandit. While he's busy with that, Andrea gets his knife and cuts herself loose. She starts to walk away, free. He tells her to stop or he'll shoot. She dares him to do his worst and heads off down the trail. Foster holds his gun on her retreating figure ... and holds ... and holds ... and cut to black.
With that ending, Foster keeps his arc (although you may or may not want the ambiguous touch at the end) and Andrea gets one of her own: from utterly powerless to defying a gun with only the force of her will. A complete revolution for all concerned.
I'm normally reluctant to give people advice on story matters involving completed films; it has the feel of Monday-morning quarterbacking to it (you might conceivably fix the bad sound, but really, what can you do about the script now?). Maybe my jeremiad will be useful to you on your feature, which we would really like to have more details about. You still have a well-shot film that shows an instinct for good acting and engaging story ideas; I'm not surprised you won awards with this (which ones? The IMDb doesn't list any). Best of luck!