AVCCAM VS RAW Video

Felipe Henao

Felipe Henao

Well-known member
The first take was made with the HMC40 and its Compresed and efficient codec, the other takes were shot using RAW video from Magic Lantern on a Canon DSLR.
As we can notice despite the huge difference in compression, the HMC40 remains with Fantastic quality compared, the main reason is the US $10.000 LENS
on a $ 2000 camera, I have to say I did not realized what kind of camera we have until you compare.

 
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You're "dumbing-down" and making the Canon look like the Panasonic...and on close-ups where details can't be distinguished as well.

Shoot a wide shot of some trees with both cameras (highest-quality RAW possible with ML) and let us know what you think...
 
In fact this is part o a commercial, and my purpose is that now that I switched to RAW video 100%, wanted to find use for the HMC40 in this field and found that despite
I'm using Nikkor AI lenses on my Canon, Leica optics have a Clarity that makes me understand the price of this Leica optics, you can buy a decent car for the price of a Leica lens.
Have to say that details, with Nikkor on a Canon are Excellent but Leica is unique.
Also image processing on the HMC40 is very good
 
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I was impressed with AVCHD. I had heard bad things but once I started using it I was surprised how good it looks and how far it can be pushed in post.
Certainly not saying it is as good as the 100 or 400+Mb codecs but it works for many many projects. A cheap sharp camcorder like HMC40 or AC90A do good job.
Looks like your HMC40 is still serving you well

I actually just bought a nice cheap used 2nd AG AC90A for events so I have a matching pair because the 1080P AVCHD works great for lots of work. I wanted another UX180 but can't justify the cost right now
 
Yes the codec needs perfect exposure and white balance once you achieve that results are great, do not forget the importance of the Leica lens.
In fact if would buy another Panasonic camera would be looking for one with a Leica lens.
 
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But if you think about this as a businessman, how great do you think this Leica lens could be in a $2500 camera from 2009?

The date is important here because not only were cameras very expensive back then - and usually more money equaled a better product - but lenses were as well.

The HMC40 was awesome, but it just wouldn't make much sense from a for-profit financial perspective to make the lens that superb when weighing the value of the rest of the components and what amount of money was left over for everyone.

Corporate contracts, branding rights also exist. It could have been entirely made by Leica in Germany, but maybe it wasn't.
 
Germany made is not my point, If I compare the lens quality from the HMC40 with a Canon EF prime lens there is a very clear difference IN sharpness, Clarity.
not considering where it was made, When I decided to invest in better lenses for my Canon cameras that are able to make RAW video with Magic Lantern,
Started looking for old Leica manual Lenses and prices despite of its age in the used market are very high, then tryed the old Nikkor AI series lenses and
found a great surprise, mainly in color and microcontrast or better gradation on levels, Also sharpness is great and prices are acceptable,
Check BHPhoto 40 years after release date are still produced in the range of $ 500 and up.
Lens quality regardless any other business consideration is too important , on one customer you can make a living.
 
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It seems the partnership between Leica and Panasonic produced some good results through the years. Didn't they not use Leica on the AC130 and 160 and people complained about a quality loss?
Plus, don't the camera manufacturers compensate with in-camera processing for lens limitations thus making the end result appear to be a better quality lens than it really is? Because if you don't do that then you just have a have a good lens rather than a decent lens that you improve?
 
There are a lot of moving parts and it's a complicated conversation to have online because of the beauty that exists in the eyes of a beholder.

I love these cameras and they will always hold a special place in my heart and will always have a purpose for someone, but they are quite frankly potatoes as far as what computers in a box can do today.

In short, great processing can absolutely help a lens appear better and we can simply test that by attaching a $70,000 broadcast zoom lens to a pixel-binned and line-skipped DSLR and a $50,000 ARRI camera and see the difference, but IMO we honestly cannot expect too much from a fixed zoom lens on a prosumer camcorder at that introductory MSRP (which actually dropped almost $1000 before it even started shipping).
 
Also have to mention that the Canon cameras with Magic Lantern required one of 2 options to avoid aliasing and Moire, one is using an Antialiasing filter at the back of the lens, and the other is
sensor cropping which is possible on Canon cameras thanks to the Hacked Magic Lantern software. Also own the Filter, is a God bless.
More than words images speak by themselves, and as far as I see Leica and Nikkor lenses are superior to Canon modern lenses, Computer processing helps but real optics holds its own value.
 
Check this video where the shots made with the HMC40 are far superior to the Canon 85 1.8 Canon lens used on the other shots, and is a more fare comparison since this video was made with both cameras using
the standar 4:2:0 8 bit codec, the reason: just in the latest very few months Magic Lantern Team in Europe was able to hack the card reading speed in order to make possible RAW Video for several minutes an option.

 
That lens is from 1992. lol

Do you have any idea how good Canon's modern day lenses are?

Nothing wrong with using the gear you have to produce videos you love, but you are always making assumptions on other technology based on your own experiences with very old equipment.

Same with Magic Lantern...extremely dated compared to the IQ from cinema cameras from 2020 and 2021, especially on the T5i which can't even harness the full power of ML like some other DSLRs.
 
I own the new STM prime lenses from the EF series and found them too contrasty compared to the EF 85 1.8, that is why don't use them for video (Good for Photo) and decided by Nikkor AI series lenses.
Guess but don't know you don't use Magic Lantern because is right with the T4i and T5i where best RAW performance is achieved, after trying Mark II and III.
Yes Magic Lantern is not a say comfortable operating system to use since you have to sacrifice handling options here and there, but let me tell you NorBro Quality is Amazing.
and at this point I'm wondering if all you say is words or you have any image to show and please don't consider this offensive.
 
No offense at all, we're just chatting. :smile:

I last used ML probably about 6 years ago. Even if I didn't and it was all just words, anyone can browse YT/Vimeo and watch the most viewed and most liked ML videos to get a sense of some of the best IQ that was/is possible.

At the end of the day, as long as you're happy that's all that matters.

But I think one day if you have the opportunity to work with some other hardware out there or maybe watch a few videos on YouTube and see what people are doing in video production these days, you might reflect back on this conversation with a different perspective.
 
Yes Magic Lantern just recently solved a very old problem that was continous recording with RAW video, as I said before it was thanks to hacking the card speed data transmission, and that made me
jump into this codec, and felt really amazed by the quality, then as I said found a flaw with the lenses I was using and switched to Old Nikkor AI Lenses, do not have autofocus or control from the camera but are
great, simple task for a experimented International photographer as I am. there is an interesting stage of my live where I worked at Avon cosmetics studio in New York as a Still life photographer.
Not to say that I'm God or any thing like that but my work is great for 2022, and what a surprise using as you say dated gear.
Well conclusion darling, If gear counts knowledge counts more.
 
Forgot to mention why lenses like old nikkor are so good, well I guess in those days was possible to manufacture with higher quality RAW materials, Crystal, Brass, not Plastic and chips.
As far as Leica probably I guess their prices can hold quality, reason why we are chatting about them.

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