AVC-Intra & DVCPRO HD Comparisons

Is the article saying that AVC-I can not be played back on a macbook pro (2.93 GHZ) and you need even a top of the line Mac pro desktop???????
 
Any intel processor can play it -- it's just as to whether it can play it back in full-screen, full-frame rate, real time or not.
 
Barry_Green said:
Any intel processor can play it -- it's just as to whether it can play it back in full-screen, full-frame rate, real time or not.
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Barry,

Maybe my set up was off, but I demo'ed the 300 in intra 100 and could not play back the clips in P2CMs on my MBP core Duo. The AVC intra plug in was loaded. The timeline would run, but no footage was visible.
 
I really hope this is a joke. If you can not play AND edit AVC-I like DVCpro-HD on a top of the line macbook pro it really sucks what Pana developed !!!! This is really getting to much after the skew and noise issues. Sorry that I am getting a little pissed off, i had a bad day.
 
AVC Intra

AVC Intra

When you refer to the playback of AVC Intra on the mac, do you mean using the Quicktime plug-in? I feel it's kind of a moot point anyway, when in order to actually edit with the footage with FC Studio on the mac it is transcoded to Pro Res on it's way in. Pro Res will play just fine on the MB Pro.

My 2 cents on AVC Intra... hands down the best acquisition codec I have used in recent years. I am currently doing post on a TV series for BBC that is 52 episodes and we have approx 20 TB of clips shot on the HPX3000 and working in Pro Res HQ, so plenty off footage to judge it on. Much of it is green screen and is fantastic for pulling a key!

Having worked extensively with DVCPRO HD, the first thing I noticed was how clean AVC was in comparison. Low noise. The overall clarity is fantastic. And the P2 workflow from studio to edit suite has been flawless. We actually had edit suites on site and tagged and bagged it as we shot.
 
mickjones said:
When you refer to the playback of AVC Intra on the mac, do you mean using the Quicktime plug-in? I feel it's kind of a moot point anyway, when in order to actually edit with the footage with FC Studio on the mac it is transcoded to Pro Res on it's way in. Pro Res will play just fine on the MB Pro.

My 2 cents on AVC Intra... hands down the best acquisition codec I have used in recent years. I am currently doing post on a TV series for BBC that is 52 episodes and we have approx 20 TB of clips shot on the HPX3000 and working in Pro Res HQ, so plenty off footage to judge it on. Much of it is green screen and is fantastic for pulling a key!

Having worked extensively with DVCPRO HD, the first thing I noticed was how clean AVC was in comparison. Low noise. The overall clarity is fantastic. And the P2 workflow from studio to edit suite has been flawless. We actually had edit suites on site and tagged and bagged it as we shot.
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All I want to do is play some test footage.... up until now no luck. I'm all ears as to what I may be doing wrong or have mis-configured etc ... Believe me, I'd love to see the AVC-intra codec in all of it's glory.

My computer: MBP core Duo, 3 gigs ram, OS 10.4.11, FCP 5.1.4, and P2CMS.

Is it possible to play back AVC-Intra 100 clips with the computer and software I have in my possession?

Anyone... anyone... Bueller ?....
 
You'd need FCP 6.0.2 and the Panasonic AVC plug-in. Then you could work with it on your MBP. You can view it in Log and transfer window and then import as ProResHQ in order to work with it, or transcode further for viewing proxies etc. The MBP and quicktime plug-in will give a "limited preview" on a macbook pro. But if you imported it and let it transcode to ProResHQ you could playback at full quality on the MBP. AVC-Intra->ProResHQ is pristine. Retains full color sampling.
 
Cees Mutsaers said:
I really hope this is a joke. If you can not play AND edit AVC-I like DVCpro-HD on a top of the line macbook pro it really sucks what Pana developed !!!! This is really getting to much after the skew and noise issues. Sorry that I am getting a little pissed off, i had a bad day.
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With all respect, Panasonic don't control the development of computer processing power....it all comes down to number crunching. Mpeg4 style codecs are extremely hard to decode/encode.

Haven't had the time to test my laptop, but my 3 year old Hp workstation seem to deal with avc-i just as fine as it does hdv and dvcprohd in Avid MC 3.1.

Basicly you almost "spoil" a camera like hpx300 with a codec this good, it really shines when you see the final results of it's larger 2/3" cousins. But that said, dvcprohd are kind of still going strong, a lot of Discovery HD shows are from the tape based hdx900, as was Topgear North pole for BBC HD.
 
Cees Mutsaers said:
If you can not play AND edit AVC-I like DVCpro-HD on a top of the line macbook pro it really sucks what Pana developed !!!!
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You've got to be kidding. Once again, you blame the manufacturer for user error? He's using FCP 5. You can't use Intra with FCP 5. Why not extend the benefit of the doubt sometime?

Panasonic develops a codec good enough for the BBC to choose it for all their content archiving, good enough for Discovery to rate it Gold, good enough for the Hollywood Post Alliance to award it a technical achievement award, and you say "it really sucks what Pana developed"?

Give it a rest.

This is really getting to much after the skew and noise issues. Sorry that I am getting a little pissed off, i had a bad day.
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There isn't any noise issue, the HPX300 footage looks great. And the skew in 1080i and 720/24p is BETTER than the Sony. Keep it in context please.
 
mickjones said:
You'd need FCP 6.0.2 and the Panasonic AVC plug-in. Then you could work with it on your MBP. You can view it in Log and transfer window and then import as ProResHQ in order to work with it, or transcode further for viewing proxies etc. The MBP and quicktime plug-in will give a "limited preview" on a macbook pro. But if you imported it and let it transcode to ProResHQ you could playback at full quality on the MBP. AVC-Intra->ProResHQ is pristine. Retains full color sampling.
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Thanks Mick. I'm not really interested in playing it in FCP at the moment, just P2CMS- is that possible with the hardware at hand ? I'm really just trying to do some down and dirty viewing. I'll upgrade my FCP at some point later on.
 
Barry_Green said:
You've got to be kidding. Once again, you blame the manufacturer for user error? He's using FCP 5. You can't use Intra with FCP 5. Why not extend the benefit of the doubt sometime?

Panasonic develops a codec good enough for the BBC to choose it for all their content archiving, good enough for Discovery to rate it Gold, good enough for the Hollywood Post Alliance to award it a technical achievement award, and you say "it really sucks what Pana developed"?

Give it a rest.


There isn't any noise issue, the HPX300 footage looks great. And the skew in 1080i and 720/24p is BETTER than the Sony. Keep it in context please.
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Barry,

I haven't been trying to play it in FCP 5, I just mentioned that as part of the software I have available to me. I pretty much assumed that FCP 5 and Intra is a no go. I'd just be happy to know if AVC-I clips will playback within Panasonic's own software - P2CMS and the CPU that I've mentioned... I'm looking for answers. If there's away to achieve this , as you've implied previously, I'd love to know.
 
According to Panasonic, the hardware system requirements for either the Mac or Windows for AVC-Intra 100 playback are are formidable.

A MacBook Pro is out of the question for playback.

Mac Link to system requirements and download for AVC-Intra 100 playback:
https://eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp/pro-av/support/cs/csregistp2m/ep2main/p2cms_dl_mace.htm

[SIZE=-1]To play back AVC-Intra format clips and to convert into DPX file, following are necessary.[/SIZE]
  • [SIZE=-1]AVC-Intra Decoder 1.2[/SIZE]
  • [SIZE=-1]CPU: 2 x Quad-Core Xeon[/SIZE]
  • [SIZE=-1]RAM: 2GB or more[/SIZE]


Windows Link to system requirements and download for AVC-Intra 100 playback:

https://eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp/pro-av/support/cs/csregistp2m/ep2main/p2cms_dl_wine.htm


AVC-Intra 100
  • [SIZE=-1]CPU: Dual CPU configuration dual-core Xeon (3 GHz or greater)[/SIZE]
  • [SIZE=-1]RAM: DDR2-667 1 GB or greater[/SIZE]
 
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Sorry again had some bad news that day. So as i understand it can be played back and eddited on a MBP just like DVCproHD :-)) and the only issue left is the skew in 1080/24p which is worse than at the competion?


Barry_Green said:
You've got to be kidding. Once again, you blame the manufacturer for user error? He's using FCP 5. You can't use Intra with FCP 5. Why not extend the benefit of the doubt sometime?

Panasonic develops a codec good enough for the BBC to choose it for all their content archiving, good enough for Discovery to rate it Gold, good enough for the Hollywood Post Alliance to award it a technical achievement award, and you say "it really sucks what Pana developed"?

Give it a rest.


There isn't any noise issue, the HPX300 footage looks great. And the skew in 1080i and 720/24p is BETTER than the Sony. Keep it in context please.
Click to expand...
 
I have seen it played back on an MBP, using the Calibrated MXF plug-in. Double-click the files and they come up in the Quicktime player. If you've got the P2CMS AVC-I codec installed, then AVC-I files will work on an MBP.
 
I accidentally shot some AVC-I footage when I first got the camera. I loaded the clips into P@CMS and they would not play. I realized it was because I did not have the necessary codec. I went thru the process on the panny website loaded the codec and viola. Everything worked as it should. I need to check the specs on my MBP but it was an end of life 15" model from before they removed the expresscard34 slot. Just my $.02. On a side note I have to agree with Barry . Let your disdain for panny go.
 
This article http://www.vmi.tv/training/learning-centre/docs/AVC-Intra-for-Producers.pdf says that AVC-Intra is not an intraframe codec as some may think, but rather a combination of intra- and interframe coding. The author stresses out how AVC-Intra interframe coding is different from other interframe codecs, but I fail to see what is the major difference. Aside of the features that are already improved in AVC/H.264 compared to MPEG-2 like different block sizes, better predictions, etc, the only major difference of AVC-Intra that I can see is that it can mix and match intra- and interframe coding, this is what AVC and MPEG-2 cannot do. AVC and MPEG-2 have fixed GOPs, while AVC-Intra can use as many key frames as it wants.

If I remember correctly, in Vegas I can change GOP size for say MPEG-2 export, but it will be a fixed GOP size for the whole output. The coder is free to mix and match B and P frames in the GOP, but spacing between I frames is fixed for a given output.

Do I understand this correctly that AVC-Intra codec is completely free in varying GOP structure?
 
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