Authorized Dealers - Where to buy

Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy

Who sells the cameras to the grey market sellers? Panasonic, a third party, or are they stolen, etc.

Panasonic knows that when they sell these cameras they will end up in the US. So if they don't want grey market sellers to sell their cameras then they shouldn't sell them to the grey market sellers in the first place.
 
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy

Gray marketers get their cameras from a variety of sources. Some are from other countries, but some appear to be US models that are bought under-the-table from authorized resellers.

Panasonic could put a stop to that by tracing the serial numbers to find out where the cameras are coming from. But Panasonic themselves do not sell cameras to gray market dealers.
 
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy

Panasonic can't have it both ways. All of these cameras originate from Panasonic at some time or another. It's not like there are gnomes living underground, making DVX100's and selling them for less. If they don't want a camera sold in the US and don't want to honor it's warrenty, they need to put "NOT FOR SALE IN THE US. NO US WARRENTY" on the box. If they make the camera, they need to stand behind it no matter who the merchant happens to be.

I see that my four posts were compressed into one... I guess I should have done that myself.
 
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy

Pooh wrote:
>That's very interesting. I know this is lame, but isn't Panasonic somewhat "responsible" for all the cameras it makes? Or are you saying that you have some that aren't quite up to par??

Panasonic in every country is the marketing and sales company not the manufacturer. We are responsible for the product that we import to this country. The way we can track those which is ours is via the serial numbers. We have just started this because we began to realize the disparity of the warranty repair averages.

>The camera that needed the major work was purchased from Armatos, actually. I'm sure they had nothing to do with the problem, but just to clarify..

But Armatos is an authorized dealer and I too am sure that they had nothing to do with the need for repair. They actually have a loaner policy, and I am positive about the origin of that camera. Paul Armato is a great guy, and he works very hard at running a reputable dealership.

>(sorry, this is just a small beef about the fact that all our Panasonic DVX cameras have had to be serviced in less than a year...these are DVX100.)

Sometimes things work out that way, unfortunately, but you have left me a little confused, as you said above it was the camera from Armatos, but now you say that all of your cameras needed repair. Nonetheless, you will find others on this forum that have never had to have their camera serviced.

>I'm not being defensive about buydig or the camera we bought from them at all. I do appreciate your input. I would not want anyone to run into a scam or bad purchase experience, or have a WARRANTY repair need and be SOL. Thus good information is important.

Yes it is. And it is apparent that sometimes Buydig will purchase the camera from an authorized dealer and resell it, as noted above with the Magic Bullet software. And since it did come with the Magic Bullet, then it is a US unit. But sometimes they don't.

>tho, ASFAIK, I have a US Warranty for all the cameras, buydig, Armatos, etc. At least that is what I was told over the phone by both and that is what the paper materials that came with BOTH claim. Paperwork is exactly the same. And ASFAIK, both are registered now as US warranty cameras.

The paper that comes with all cameras destined for North America, Canada, Puerto Rico and the US, all have the same paper warranty stuff in the bag. Just because you sent in your warranty card, that does not mean that your camera has a US Warranty. I have received many warranty cards that reflect gray market cameras.

I don't know how far back the service guys will go on the serial number search, but I am saying that from now forward, one should put their trust in authorized dealers. It sounds though as you have been fortunate in your dealings, but I know others that are kicking themselves.

>I have also once tried buying from a totally different retailer whose name I won't mention, but the experience was horrifying. Good luck all, there are plenty of good businesses that deserve your patronage.

I think we all have had bad experiences with dealers authorized or not, that would defy the imagination as to how they were still in business. Fortunately the customer usually wins and they either change their business tactics or go out of business. In a previous life, I worked for such a dealership. They are now out of business.

Anyhow Pooh, I am only trying to help here and to help you understand that there is a value to owning a US warranty. Canada does this very same thing, BTW. I have a letter on my desk from a Canadian citizen that needed warranty repair and he took it to Canada and they charged him for it. The worst part was that the dealer he bought it from in the US was a real fly by night and the product had been brought in from Singapore. With world market currencies being all over the map, the opportunity for gray abounds on such a popular product. So everyone just be careful, I hate having my hands tied in being able to help.

Best regards,

Jan
 
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy

Tony: Panasonic can't have it both ways. All of these cameras originate from Panasonic at some time or another.

Tony, they originate at Matsushita, the manufacturer.

>It's not like there are gnomes living underground, making DVX100's and selling them for less.

Actually world currency markets play heavily into this. There are channels into this country that if you don't have to pay the same prices that we do to bring the product in, there can be a quite a large difference in price. Add that to the world currency issues and viola, there is a disparity. But even so there are dealers that haul you in by very low prices but by the time you pay for the standard accessories you are paying as much as you would from an authorized dealer.

>If they don't want a camera sold in the US and don't want to honor it's warrenty, they need to put "NOT FOR SALE IN THE US. NO US WARRENTY" on the box.

In fact we do on the Japanese product. I have one of these parked outside my cubicle. It was purchased off of eBay by a customer. It clearly says not for suitable for resale in any foriegn country. But by the time you see this warning you own the box.

>If they make the camera, they need to stand behind it no matter who the merchant happens to be.

We do stand behind the product, you will just have to take up getting your warranty paid for by the country that sold it to the dealer you bought it from.

I hope this helps,

Jan
 
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy

Daniel said: but Panasonic has made it's $ on the cam and should indeed back it up...

Ah, but there is the rub, we did not. Matsushita did. They are the manufacturer, the marketing company in whatever country that sold it to the gray marketer that they bought it from made their money, but none of that money made it to the US to support that camera. We will service the camera, we will support the camera, but we just have to charge for it.

>not out of legal responsibility

Gray market is not illegal, the US government made a decision back in the 70's that said this was an okay thing to do. As far as Panasonic US or Canada having a legal responsibility to service something that we didn't sell for free, sorry there is no law that says we have to do that.

>but genuine gratefulness and loyalty to those who have gone into debt and slaved at BS jobs for two years to buy their cameras at what to us common people is a friggin fortune.

We are grateful and frankly, the fact that we have a set of dealers out there that support the product and have a direct pathway to us, is one of the ways that we support the customer.

>What exactly would Panasonic (big gazillion $ mega corp) be losing by making sure that each and every purchaser of their product gets a working unit?


First we are not a gazillion dollar company, check the annual report for Matsushita. They are working when they leave the factory, but sometimes things do go wrong. If there is no way for me to take it back because it came out of the box and stopped working after a week, then what? If I do not have an invoice that I can take it back against then there is no way for me to help. That is just business process, I cannot help that.

>Again, regardless of any other fact....Panasonic made the camera and sold it...got their $ and the customer bought it brand new in the box and in my view, it should be insured to work within reason by the people who made it.

I repeat that Matsushita Electric Industrial is the manufacturer and they sell them to marketing companies and they resell them to dealers and they resell them to you.

They are, and they all do have a warranty, in the country that they were sold to, there is no such thing as a International warranty on this product.

>It just seems the proper way to treat fellow humans. I'm not "all tore up" about this, just expressing my view.

And that is fine, but the problem here is that many people do not fully understand the complexity of the situation and it is a Buyer Beware scenario. I don't want people to be hurt, I want to be able to help every customer that owns a DVX100/A in the US, but unfortunately I am not always able to do so in the manner that I want to, and most of these are directly because there is no direct trail to Panasonic US for their camera.

Just trying to help,

Jan
 
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy

Okay, in summation, I think what Jan is saying  (and PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong): Every DVX100 has a warranty and that warranty will be honored by the country of origin, regardless of what dealer the camera was purchased from.  However, when dealing with gray marketers, you may find that your warranty is from Singapore or Japan or somewhere else.  Panasonic US has no responsibility (nor capacity nor bandwidth) to service another country's warranty claims.  Accordingly, Panasonic US WILL repair the camera, but would charge for it as that camera has no warranty from Panasonic US.  If the buyer wants to get their camera serviced under warranty, they have to send it back to the country of origin.

What about under-the-table resales of legitimate US cameras?  Cameras that were bought by gray-marketers from an authorized US dealer and then re-sold to a US customer?  I think this is probably what Buydig does.  Would such a camera have a valid US warranty?  Or would it be considered "used" (since the end customer is not actually the original purchaser, Buydig was) and therefore ineligible for warranty service?  Or does the warranty transfer to new owners anyway?
 
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy

Buydig.com says that all of it's cameras are new, unopened US models unless otherwise stated. I usually call them and double check before buying a really expensive camera.

If "grey market" is selling items that are from other countries, then even B&H does that. I've noticed that many Canon items are available as imports for a reduced price. They even tell you that you would have to ship the item out of country for warrenty service.
 
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy

[quote author=Daniel Runyon link=board=nws;num=1091645002;start=45#47 date=08/14/04 at 07:06:38]Eye opening....sort of strange....but understood! Thank you very much for such an informative explanation.

Who owns the marketing companies? Just so I've got it right, Panasonic is a marketing company? Panasonic is not owned by the manufacturer? If Panasonic is not the marketing company you are referring to, who is the marketing company? Gracias![/quote]

Strange isn't the word for it. Amazed at myself, I have to stand with Tony on this one - it's BS.

We live in a well developed global economy and Matsushita Electric is the exemplar of that global economy. They own Panasonic, JVC and a bunch of other lesser known companies as "business units". They have set up marketing and distribution companies in countries all over the world according to the laws of those countries. So far, so good.

But are we to believe that Matsushita/Panasonic didn't consider the possibility that someone in Indonesia would buy a wholesale lot of cameras or stereos and send them to the States for resale? Of course they did. It's this sort of personal enterprise that invented globalism before Marco Polo. It's a corporate dodge. If you take your DVX in for a warranty repair, the paperwork from the repair shop will go to Panasonic in Secaucus, NJ. Are we to believe that a company this large couldn't back-charge the cost of the repair to Panasonic, Indonesia?

I'm sorry Jan, but this is the typical behavior of an international behemoth - shirking the responsibility due to the local customer. I'm not saying that you are personally part of any conspiracy, or even that a "conspiracy" exists, because that would imply something illegal.

You really can fool some of the people all the time and all of the people some of the time, but here in America, when the penny finally drops, we litigate and then legislate and that's when corporate hides get nailed to the wall.
 
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy

If there was a way to charge the warranty repairs back to the Panasonic in the country of the camera's origin, that would certainly be a more consumer-friendly way to handle it...
 
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=nws;num=1091645002;start=45#48 date=08/14/04 at 08:54:32]Okay, in summation, I think what Jan is saying  (and PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong): Every DVX100 has a warranty and that warranty will be honored by the country of origin, regardless of what dealer the camera was purchased from.  However, when dealing with gray marketers, you may find that your warranty is from Singapore or Japan or somewhere else.  Panasonic US has no responsibility (nor capacity nor bandwidth) to service another country's warranty claims.  Accordingly, Panasonic US WILL repair the camera, but would charge for it as that camera has no warranty from Panasonic US.  If the buyer wants to get their camera serviced under warranty, they have to send it back to the country of origin.

What about under-the-table resales of legitimate US cameras?  Cameras that were bought by gray-marketers from an authorized US dealer and then re-sold to a US customer?  I think this is probably what Buydig does.  Would such a camera have a valid US warranty?  Or would it be considered "used" (since the end customer is not actually the original purchaser, Buydig was) and therefore ineligible for warranty service?  Or does the warranty transfer to new owners anyway?[/quote]

Barry you are correct. The reselling of US cameras as buydig does, or seems to, have US warranty. As long as it is a US serial number, there is a US warranty.

Hope this helps,

Jan
 
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy

Daniel asked:Who owns the marketing companies?

Marsushita owns us but holds us to be responsible for profitability.

>Just so I've got it right, Panasonic is a marketing company? Panasonic is not owned by the manufacturer?

We are owned by the manufacturer, but we are a company that is judged in total on our ability to sell the product and be profitable. This is what we do. When we service something that we did not import, that is at a loss. Sort of analogous to you fixing a bad edit job that you didn't do, for free. You were not responsible but because you do editing you are held responsible.

All Japanese, and in fact US, companies that are subsidiaries of a larger corporation are held to the same standard of doing business. They must be profitable and be accountable for that business that they do.

The problem is that on this camera, the warranty repairs were running twice the national average. So that equates to twice the cost of any other product that is supported. This is what I am talking about. It is a business just like any other business. We could not afford to continue with servicing the world's camera supply at a loss.

That is why we came up with a program so that the customers could distinquish US product from non-US product, the inclusion of the Magic Bullet.

I trust this helps,

Jan
 
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=nws;num=1091645002;start=45#52 date=08/14/04 at 23:14:46]If there was a way to charge the warranty repairs back to the Panasonic in the country of the camera's origin, that would certainly be a more consumer-friendly way to handle it...[/quote]

We are working on coming up with a way to purchase a US warranty, but are more than several months away from that solution.
 
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy

Are was the Magic Bullet thrown in because the XL2 is here. So why not when a camera comes in find out where the serial number came from. If you have serial numbers for the US then you must have serial numbers for Brazil, Mexico, Canada, etc. Then why not trace those cameras back to who they where sold to and then you could stop the grey market. But in the end does your parent company want that? To me if you bought it in the US and have proof then it should be covered beside bringing in your Magic Bullet disk. If I buy it in Mexico I go to Mexico for the repair work. This is Panasonic's job not the consumers to make sure this doesn't happen. And I'm not saying buy from the grey market. We just bought the camera Friday along with the matte box and follow focus for a commerical shoot. I'd rather pay more and know there is someone who will take care of me when there's a problem. Someone who wants my business all the time. Because in a month we'll buy the 16x9 lens and more. Because we feel this is a good little camera to shoot are next feature on instead of 35mm (even though we own the 35mm package) because the fact that usually are features just go to video, HBO, Blockbuster, etc. And we can still do a film out if needed.
 
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy

[quote author=Gary_McClurg link=board=nws;num=1091645002;start=45#56 date=08/15/04 at 06:54:41]This is Panasonic's job not the consumers to make sure this doesn't happen.  [/quote]

What can Panasonic DO about it, Gary? They can't send shock troops in to all these disreputable places importing models intended for foreign markets. Their policies are above-board and up front and easily discoverable to anyone doing the research they should do before making a north-of-$3000 purchase.

As Jan said, caveat emptor. I understand that in today's society, the pervading attitude is that "fault" lies entirely, at all times, with the party who has more money, but that's just ridiculous. What some of you people are demanding is that Panasonic be required to commit suicide for actions it has no control over.
 
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy

Yes, I understand that is why we bought the camera from a authorized dealer on Friday so that, one we'd get the camera on time and two if we had trouble they'll stand behind their sell that's why we paid more money instead of going for a cheaper price. Because we don't have the time to run around and say hey who's job is it to fix this if something goes wrong.
 
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy

We are owned by the manufacturer, but we are a company that is judged in total on our ability to sell the product and be profitable.
Click to expand...

I for one, judge a comoany on the quality of its products and its willingness to service the customer.

The problem is that on this camera, the warranty repairs were running twice the national average.
Click to expand...

Jeez, that's interesting. Does that mean that cameras brought in from overseas are built to a different (lower) standard, or are they all built to this same standard that needs twice as many repairs?

We could not afford to continue with servicing the world's camera supply at a loss.
Click to expand...

Here's an idea. Build a camera that doesn't break so often.

As Jan said, caveat emptor. I understand that in today's society, the pervading attitude is that "fault" lies entirely, at all times, with the party who has more money, but that's just ridiculous. What some of you people are demanding is that Panasonic be required to commit suicide for actions it has no control over.
Click to expand...

Ah, but they do have control over much of what is happening. If they chose, they could make supplies to overseas exporters dry up overnight. They could add certain features to be found only on U.S. models. They could come up with a new global pricing model rather than a regional one, where a DVX100A costs $3,500 here and only $2,000 in Indonesia. We, the consumers are the ones with more money and it is we that are being held at fault.

And by the way Gary, caveat emptor is business latin for, "hooray for me and f**k you".
 
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy

Wow, Rogue, that was a hostile post that I think missed Jan's points.

[quote author=Rogue Crew link=board=nws;num=1091645002;start=45#59 date=08/15/04 at 08:27:49]

I for one, judge a comoany on the quality of its products and its willingness to service the customer.
[/quote]As do many of us. But that's not what Jan was saying. She was saying that her parent company judges her company's performance on its profitability.


Jeez, that's interesting.  Does that mean that cameras brought in from overseas are built to a different (lower) standard, or are they all built to this same standard that needs twice as many repairs?
Click to expand...
No, it doesn't mean that at all! It means that the US market is being flooded with imported product! So if half the product here was legitimate US product, and half the product was imported, and had the same repair percentage, then Panasonic US's repair rate would be running at twice average, because they're servicing twice as many cameras even though they only sold (and are responsible for) half of them.


If they chose, they could make supplies to overseas exporters dry up overnight.
Click to expand...
How? Panasonic US can't regulate what Panasonic Singapore does...
They could add certain features to be found only on U.S. models.
Click to expand...
They've done this. A US warranty, for one. Magic Bullet for Editors, for another. People still buy gray market.
They could come up with a new global pricing model rather than  a regional one, where a DVX100A costs $3,500 here and only $2,000 in Indonesia.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, Panasonic can't control global currency markets. Currencies fluctuate in value, that's just the way it is, and unless the entire world goes on the gold standard, that's the way it will continue to be. And there will always be enterprising arbitragers willing to exploit those fluctuations.
 
Re: Authorized Dealers - Where to buy

And for that matter, prices (in general) fluctuate from place to place even *within* the US.  Californians pay, on average, fifty cents more per gallon of gas than I do.  People in my home town pay (astonishingly) two bucks more per movie ticket than I do.  Not even all authorized Panasonic online dealers charge the same.

"Standardized" pricing is not only impossible (is Panasonic also responsible for differences in import duties, tariffs, sales taxes, boxing taxes, etc.?), it's not desirable -- as any artificial pricing is not.

Again, you ask the impossible, and even the undesirable.  Do your homework and you won't have to worry, as anyone laying out $3000+ is under an obligation to do.  If you don't, it really is your own fault.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top