Audio tips for Indie Directors/Producers/DPs

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Shawn Philip Nelson

Shawn Philip Nelson

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Okay, I'm the typical indie writer/director/editor type who after 3 years of producing shorts got fed up with sucky sounding audio. So for a while I've been reading all the stickies and tons of archives in this forum, the DVInfo.net forum, reading Ty's website, his book, Jay Rose's book, etc. Then I went out and bought a mixer, several mics, wind protection, etc. and have been using them. I did this for two main reasons, one was because realistically, I can't afford to hire a sound man and still keep making my movies. I need to be able to take an audio enthusiast and make them a competent mixer and keep tabs on them. Secondly, as a director I would pay attention to lighting, acting, wardrobe, makeup, etc. but like most directors I've seen, I never paid attention to audio. (Most sets I've been on, the audio guy was the only one with headphones on.) So, I endeavored to change that and have audio as one of the things I keep in mind.

Thus, here is a list of 7 things I have learned in audio and how this impacts and applies to me as an Indie Producer/Director. I read many threads that made great audio tips but none geared towards someone who wouldn't actually be mixing or boom operating. Please feel free to correct and especially to add on to this list!

Lesson #1: A boom mic must be within 2 ft to get good sound (preferably 1 ft)
Impact #1: Dialogue scenes should be framed in such a way to accommodate this. Set up the scene with a wide angle then go in close or medium for dialogue. No more dialogue scenes where the talent is filmed in wide angle, those look bad anyways. Plus, make sure to get every line of dialogue on a close-up so I can have at least one copy of the dialogue where the mic is only 8 inches away. A good technique is to have the boom op drop the mic all the way into frame then barely pull it out.

Lesson #2: Always use a hypercardioid indoors
Impact #2: Make sure my kit has one with me

Lesson #3: Rooms with lots of hard surfaces (bathrooms, kitchens, garages, concrete warehouses) are enormously reflective and when the dialogue bounces around can sound very "tinny" or "in a can".
Impact #3: First off, make sure the boom op is using a hypercardioid in such a situation and not a shotgun. Secondly, try to not have much dialogue going on in such scenes. And if the dialogue must be there, schedule some time and space to hang some sound blankets.

Lesson #4: Regardless of room type, if the talent faces a wall directly there will be reflections of audio that will distort it subtly
Impact #4: Adjust staging so the talent isn't facing a wall at a 90 degree. The goal is not let the audio bounce straight back. If you can't re-adjust or don't want to, hang sound blankets between the talent and the wall.

Lesson #5: Wireless mics always sound inferior to wired mics (unless you spent over $3k on a top notch wireless, which I can't).
Impact #5: Try to not write scenes, or at least limit them, that are impossible to mic wired. Don't think "oh we'll just rig wireless".

Lesson #6: The mic must be pointed properly and monitored always
Impact #6: As the director, I must wear headphones to sanity check the audio. I might not be scrutinizing it, but I could catch obvious stupid errors of pointing the mic towards the road behind the talent or audio that is turned down way too low.

Lesson #7: A passing train, car or airplane will be picked up
Impact #7: Always wait for it to pass. That extra 30 sec-2 min of patience will save me in the edit. It might sound small on set, but trying to edit that take in will be nearly impossible without a lot of post work.

 
Some good points there. A couple of things to watch out for. Impact#3. Hypercardiod, refers to the pick up pattern of the mic not the type of mic itself. So some shotgun mics are hypercardiod.
As for headphones, NO film set should be without a way of getting sound from the mixer to headphones for at least the director & the script supervisor. (of course sound guy and boom op go without saying). A comtek system works well and is fairly inexpensive.
 
. Please feel free to correct and especially to add on to this list!

Lesson #1: A boom mic must be within 2 ft to get good sound (preferably 1 ft)
Impact #1: Dialogue scenes should be framed in such a way to accommodate this. Set up the scene with a wide angle then go in close or medium for dialogue. No more dialogue scenes where the talent is filmed in wide angle, those look bad anyways. Plus, make sure to get every line of dialogue on a close-up so I can have at least one copy of the dialogue where the mic is only 8 inches away. A good technique is to have the boom op drop the mic all the way into frame then barely pull it out.
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not nesserely

framing is much important then how you pick up the sound

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Lesson #2: Always use a hypercardioid indoors


Impact #2: Make sure my kit has one with me
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not really if you dont have reverb , i use shotguns here and there , i use cardioids on close ups and 2 shotes where i ( sorry my booman) cant swing a boom becouse the shadows
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Lesson #3: Rooms with lots of hard surfaces (bathrooms, kitchens, garages, concrete warehouses) are enormously reflective and when the dialogue bounces around can
sound very "tinny" or "in a can".
Impact #3: First off, make sure the boom op is using a hypercardioid in such a situation and not a shotgun. Secondly, try to not have much dialogue going on in such scenes. And if the dialogue must be there, schedule some time and space to hang

some sound blankets.
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hmm- maybe we all make movies in acarton box :)
lavaliers would work most of the time ,
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Lesson #4: Regardless of room type, if the talent faces a wall directly there will be reflections of audio that will distort it subtly
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you do a wild lines - if you dont see a mouth you can do whatever you like
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Impact #4: Adjust staging so the talent isn't facing a wall at a 90 degree. The goal is not let the audio bounce straight back. If you can't re-adjust or don't want to, hang sound blankets between the talent and the wall.
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and what if you see the wall ? comman


Lesson #5: Wireless mics always sound inferior to wired mics (unless you spent over $3k on a top notch wireless, which I can't).
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wireless mics are better if you cant boom
better have sound then not have it at all
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Impact #5: Try to not write scenes, or at least limit them, that are impossible to mic

wired. Don't think "oh we'll just rig wireless".
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try think as soundman - there is ascript - what is the solution not how tochange the script
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Lesson #6: The mic must be pointed properly and monitored always
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yep
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Impact #6: As the director, I must wear headphones to sanity check the audio. I might not be scrutinizing it, but I could catch obvious stupid errors of pointing the mic towards the road behind the talent or audio that is turned down way too low.
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if you direct - direct - leave the sound solution and other stuff to your soundman
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Lesson #7: A passing train, car or airplane will be picked up
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so what

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Impact #7: Always wait for it to pass. That extra 30 sec-2 min of patience will save me in the edit. It might sound small on set, but trying to edit that take in will be nearly impossible without a lot of post work.
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almost every sound could be remooved , if the problem showing in the frame , usially its not aproblem , if it dyalog which would be cut , leave tails so you can overlap .
never cut sound in the midle of the action ( if it not super critical and you not dealing with film which cost allot) . video is cheap , you can do it again , you can take peaces from that take 2 .


lesson 8 - dont kill your creativity
lesson 9 -bring soundman
lesson 10- everything could be adr ed later
 
Oleg

Oleg

Oleg,
You're a pro, but I have to really disagree with you here. I wrote tips for INDIE producers.

On a film with a real budget then you can ignore my tip list or just wave it away as you have done. But not as an indie or your sound will suck. As I stated before the list, *I can't hire a sound man* so your point about leaving it to the sound guy is not a good one, I need to monitor whoever is mixing for me. My tips don't apply to probably anything you work on Oleg, but they apply for a lot of people on this board who choose to get the gear then teach a soundman how to run it, or get an up and coming sound enthousiast and put good gear in their hands.

You have given a fairly accurate portrayel of Hollywood'esque producers who don't give a damn about sound. I have friends who budget short films, shoot on film, hire a sound guy etc. and when their sound still sounds like crap because they didn't do any of these tips they then just give a proverbial wave of the hand "oh well, live recording is just the scratch track for ADR". ADR should be avoided as much as possible, acting in a sterile studio does not capture the original mood and most indies don't have the budget to have it done properly.
 
I disagree with the ADR as I've heard some amazing ADR performances and think that it can work based on the level of talent that you are working with. I agree with all of my Israeli brother's comments.
 
shawneous said:
ADR should be avoided as much as possible, acting in a sterile studio does not capture the original mood and most indies don't have the budget to have it done properly.
Click to expand...

I will have to agree on this point, as I've never been able (personally) to capture the same performance in an ADR session. Sometimes it's possible, but when dealing with really intense or emotional scenes, it never is the same.
 
you are totally - wrong , when you writeyour script that solves audio problems first then have your imagination work , you get **** . the only thing which can take you from the low life you are now is what your film give - not some acceptable sound you get - if you didnt get my point, ill explain you like that - desperado - was shoot without sound .
so everything wonderful if you can solve some problems , but it not justify any artistic compromise .
hollywood , shmolivood , i do low budgets all my life , i find solutions , not create problems .
thirst you get script then you get actors ,get image , the sound you can fix in post .
since if someone really would like put some money on your film this the only part you can fix whith his money .
 
Well, I just want to say thanks to shawneous for taking the time to point out some very basic "instructions." They may not all be valid and perhaps stated too factual... but a very good point is brought up about crappy sound.

I made the mistake once... on my first and only film. Never again will I EVER shoot with SOMEONE to monitor sound.

As for Oleg 2 points... I couldn't agree more with your statement of compromising a script or shot for the sake of sound.
 
ADR can be as good, or better than the actual dialogue. Problem is, it is extremely time consuming and frustrating for those who don't know how to do it- like a Pro would.

It isn't something just anyone can pull off, from the actors redoing the dialogue, to the person recording it, to the editor trying to place it seamlessly, and to the director getting the right results from the rest of the chain... lots of places for it to come off poorly.
 
ADR can go smoothly or not. Depends on your talent, engineer, and director (seen good directors on set not have a clue how to get the right performance in studio). Actors that also have vocal training tend to be a breeze in ADR. They are able to reproduce the same rhythm of the original delivery with ease, leaving them to focus on performance.

While I agree with Oleg's points, Shawnous' original lessons are pretty solid especially for someone putting together a bare bones budget production. If you don't have the money for ADR then better to try and work around the scene and sacrifice the perfect picture/blocking/edit to get consistent sound. It's all a matter of compromises; which ones matter to you most.

For Lesson #7 I would wait for passing planes or extraneous noise but if you get it in the middle of a shot make sure to wait to call cut until after the noise has passed. Depending on what you are shooting and how loud the plane is, if you have clean audio of it passing (director not calling "cut" in the middle) then you can edit around it. A Lord of the Rings type picture would obviously not be able to do this.

It's all about working with what you got. Some rules are solid, some are meant to bent or even broken if the situation demands it. The more you apply the KISS rule to novice productions the happier you will be in post.

In addition to a good sound guy (or girl) the editor's best friend on set is a GOOD script supervisor and continuity person. You can edit around sound problems if the dialog stays consistent. If you have actors altering the lines from take to take you have just killed yourself in the editing room. Work out the dialog and blocking before you start shooting. Too often I have witnessed productions deciding to change something in the dialog or blocking mid-scene, pretty much trashing all the previous takes.

Cheers
 
Shawn,

I'm very impressed by how much you retained. You are pretty "on" about everything. The 90 degree angle thing depends a lot on your specific envionment and how well your boom op does his/her job. I've boomed a hyper almost parallel to the floor (instead of mostly straight down) to keep noise from coming in the back of the mic. You can do that with a Schoeps cmc641 and not many others without phasey sound.

You also need that angle if someone wears a baseball cap. I hate baseball caps!

I don't undersand Oleg's objection/explanation. Something is lost inthe translation.

It sounds like Theodore likes to go for the shot and the audio be damned. (again, I don't really understand what Oleg is trying to say.) I always give my directors my advice and let them hear the way it will sound. That way, they can never come back to me and say I screwed up.

I have had any number of situations in which I asked for help with a shot because I knew it would suck for sound. I'm not a Nazi about it. I offer solutions if they exist, but there are limitations that are ruled by the laws of physics that sometimes can not be overcome unless the shot is changed of the ADR budget is created.

Regards,

Ty Ford
 
tyreeford said:
Shawn,

I don't undersand Oleg's objection/explanation. Something is lost inthe translation.



Ty Ford
Click to expand...
as always i have to squeeze the food for you -
i will not put $ on someone who castrate the script or directing for the benefit of the sound department .
 
You don't have to squeeze anything for me. Frequently I just don't understand your translations.

Castrate? Please!

It's all very theatrical. Perhaps you should be a scriptwriter.

Ty Ford
 
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guys, guys, cool your cardioids.
Anyway, for shawneous, I have tried asking these sound pros for advice as to indie audio rig set-ups and I always get treated as a retard (which in some ways, I am LOL) but I wanna ask you directly as an experienced and educated non-audio pro, what are your equipment recommendations as to a shotgun and hypercardioid, wireless, headphone, etc. What pieces of equipment was good enough for your shoots?
 
I'm diggin' this thread... I would love to produce the Ty 'n Oleg show... or Oleg 'n Ty... c'mon it would be great.

The soundguy is (in my experience) kinda' low on the production totem pole... I do everything and I don't care either way... but in my opinion the soundguy is pretty much only heard from when there's a significant problem that can't be overcome... the best soundguys get good sound while sort of being a ghost on set... always right there but never noticed.

I work with some people who acknowledge the sound a lot... we have constant communication about what I'm getting... and then others never even think about me being there until they move the set. You gotta' be prepared for both situations... I see shotguns used in places that I wouldn't use a gun... but if I'm not the guy running that part of the shoot I just keep quiet.

Bottom line is do what works... experience (and top gear) is why one soundguy gets paid more then another... a good soundguy can get in a situation and keep things humming along without really affecting everyone else (again problems DO arrise and then you gotta' speak up... but I'm just sayin'... the best tip I can give anybody who wants to climb the production ladder is to be a problem solver. It's better to point out a problem then ignore it... but everybody loves the guy who points out solutions... or better still just solves the problem before anybody knew there was one.)

Again... let's not forget that this is about indi producing... this is a good thread... I love the banter more then anything though.
 
tyreeford said:
You don't have to squeeze anything for me. Frequently I just don't understand your translations.

Castrate? Please!

It's all very theatrical. Perhaps you should be a scriptwriter.

Ty Ford
Click to expand...

This is the term - castrate - do you have a better one ?
By the way , i did write few scripts in my life , no ,never got a money to produce even one , so left it s a hobby , if you like i can send you a couple to revue , but first you will need some Hebrew lessons .
And yes i think that anyone who involved in cinema business need take a curse in script writing , helps better understand what in the writer/director head to get better job results .
ps -
after reading your revue about the 44 mixer i have grate doubt that you even would get any response from NEVATON rather microphone to explore :)

Best
 
Well I'm glad to see I sparked some discussion! Oleg, Jeremy, etc. continue to misunderstand what I was saying (based on his replies, I don't think Oleg even fully read my original post). My tips were for indies who want good sound and are trying to minimize ADR and Foley.

Ty, thanks for posting! I've learned a lot from you via your website and book and I enjoy reading your posts. Thanks for the encouragement.

dahon man, I can sympathize with you (audio forum can be cruel) but I can't really say anything except ditto to MattinSTL's posts. Go read his stickies. He's super helpfull, I've never read a meanspirited post from him. It's true that the Oktava is good but, if you can afford to spend $400 instead of $173 then get an AKG ck93 because it has less wind noise sensitivity and less handling noise.

Oleg, Oleg, Oleg....you are a pro and you damn well know it. I have yet to read a post from you that wasn't also an insult of some type. If you want to be helpful, then step down off of Mt Olympus and bring fire to us mortals, but stop throughing the lighting bolts for your amusement.

Lastly, I was really hoping someone could add on to my list. Does anyone else have any tips for indie producers who want good audio?
 
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