Audio recorder question - Tascam HD P2, vs Fostex FR2-LE, vs Sony D50 + Preamp

Seth Rice

Seth Rice

Active member
Hey all,

I shooting video with a GH2 (and LOVE my Canon FD primes, by the way - some awesome looking stuff, for an amazing price) and am currently re-building my audio rig. I have a Rode NTG-1, and have been running that through an ART Dual USB Pre, into a Zoom H1... which has been... ok, but rather lousy - not the cleanest audio... the H1 is nice, the ART preamp not so much...

I'm looking at upgrading, and have been doing a bunch of research... I've pretty much narrowed it down to either the Tascam HD P2, the Fostex FR2-le, or a combination of a Sound Devices MM1, running into some other recorder - possibly a Sony PCM D50, or D10... (My budget is in the 4-600 dollar range - I've been doing some looking, and have come up with a bunch of gently used options close to that)

So, any of ya'll have experience with any such recorders? I've heard rave reviews of using the D50, with a good preamp - has anyone done that? Especially interested in comparisions - have any of ya'll used more then one of these set-ups, or something similar? I shoot mostly shorts - some commercial work, and I'm developing some longer narrative films, and some documentaries as well.

Thanks!
 
The preamp/mixer makes the biggest difference. With a high quality preamp, (properly gain staged with a good mic and boom/recording skills) the difference between the under $500 recorders would be minimal. The recorder's features, durability, ergonomic design, internal mics and preamps are another story. If your cable runs are longer than a few feet, you would want a recorder with balanced inputs.
 
Rick R said:
The preamp/mixer makes the biggest difference. With a high quality preamp, (properly gain staged with a good mic and boom/recording skills) the difference between the under $500 recorders would be minimal. The recorder's features, durability, ergonomic design, internal mics and preamps are another story. If your cable runs are longer than a few feet, you would want a recorder with balanced inputs.
Click to expand...

1) I'm using a Tascam DR-05 with a JuicedLink CX211 and both delivers good audio quality. The recording method (mic placement, proximity and other basics) makes the difference mostly. Both devices runs for less than 300$ +tx.
2) Recorder's features: as a starter kit, a setup similar to mine would be ok, both for price than features. The JuicedLink is a good preamp (better than the entry-levels recorder though) and in most recorder, there's a built-in analog limiter. Combined, these 2 devices can compete with a more expensive device, at a certain level in terms of features. As I said, as a starter kit, it's ok. Living out of that, I would invest a little more!
3) From what I know about audio: If your mic is balanced, the signal running on XLR cables to the recorder *should* remain balanced.
 
The pre-amps in both the Fostex and the Tascam are respectable. I'd say go for either of those. The form factor is much more friendly with these two, much more than any hand-held recorder. You can always upgrade to a better mixer on the front end later. And if you have the budget for the HD-P2, I'd suggest that over the FR2-LE. The Fostex is a great recorder (I have one, and I love it), but the feature set on the Tascam gives you much more room to grow into larger-level productions if that's the direction you're heading.

The combination of the MM-1 and the D50 may give you a good-sounding setup, but the clumsiness of the gear (not very bag-friendly), plus the lack of proper metering on the pre-amp, just aren't worth the risk in my opinion. I'd rather start with a recorder that has decent pre-amps and upgrade to a mixer on down the road.
 
You might also want to consider the Tascam DR-680 which is now selling for $599. This recorder has good preamps built in, phantom power, is good in a bag, and has multiple 6+ channels. It will function pretty well mixing 2 channels (without a mixer). The downside is it eats AA batteries, so you might want to think about external power for all day work. See my post on the Tekkeon battery a few threads down. If you know you will never need more than two channels, the HD-P2 would be fine (and is bag oriented), but the 680 will allow you to grow beyond two channels. The one thing the HD-P2 has that none of the others has is the ability to take a time code signal if that is important. You can add a mixer later if need be for, but for two channels you are good to go without the "two boxes and none of it works in a bag problem"

If you were going with one of the cheapo recorders, think in terms of a good mixer in front like a MixPreD but that would blow your budget. Also, when considering a cheap recorder, most of them won't work well in a bag, and that can be a pretty big issue.

Grant
 
Thanks all, for the feedback!

The consensus seems that it would be wisest to avoid the hassle of running a handheld audio recorder and pre, which I was already thinking - my current setup is using basically that, and it's a pain - t'would be very nice to have a system that did well in a bag. (I'd love to get the Mix-preD, or one of the other Sound Devices mixers.... just out of my budget at the moment,) So, I'm leaning with the Fostex, or one of the Tascam options. I hadn't heard much about the DR-680 - I would love to have the four track capabilities, it would allow me to have a bit of flexibility to add more mics. How do the preamps compare on the DR-680 to the HD P2, or the FR2-LE? I'm gathering that the HD P2 is a slightly better option then the FR2-LE... on the feature set? Timecode isn't an issue for me at the moment... the GH2 has absolutely NO TC capabilies.... :P

If the DR680 could be comparably compared to the HD P2, in it's feature set, and preamp sound, I'd be thrilled... for one thing, I'd be buying new, instead of buying a used P2, and new is much nicer on the warranty side of things...

Oh, and ggrantly, I checked out the Tekkeon set-up - I like it... the other thing I might try, is using some Tamiya RC car batteries to power up the set up - they're even cheaper, but I'll have to research some... I'm gathering the DR-680 takes 12v in?

Thanks again, ya'll!
 
I can't compare the the HD-P2 to the 680, but suffice to say that the 680 is plenty good enough for pro work. And, compared to the cheapo recorders, it has much more gain which is a common complaint with the DR-100 or H4n. Not so familiar with the gain of other recorders you mentioned. Just realize that if you need to ride the levels on more than one or two channels on the 680, you will have some plenty busy fingers. If you can set levels on most channels and monitor one or two, you'll be fine. The other minor gripe I have with the 680 is the display; it is a bit small which adds somewhat to the mixing difficulty. That is where something like a sd302 really shines (pun intended) since you have really bright, wide scale leds. Having said all that, compared to the cheapo recorders, the 680 is a huge step up. If you want the factory bag, I never use mine, send me a PM.

Grant
 
Hrm... unless I hear some really good reasons not to go for the 680, I'm thinking I'm strongly leaning that way... the gain would definitely be nice... in my limited experience, the NTG-1 is a bit of a quiet mic, so that would be perfect. When I pick it up, probably in the next two weeks, I'll send you a PM about that bag...

Thanks again for the advice/comments!
 
Anyone else have any advice/comments/cautions on the Tascam DR 680? I'm about to pull the trigger on one, and I'd love to hear from some other users, to see what kind of feedback the unit usually gets...

Thanks!
 
If you do a search, there has been lots of discussion about the 680. Mostly when it came out about a year ago. One issue of note is that it may have a weakness in very hot weather. In one case, in a bag during 100+ degree temperatures (no ventilation), it did a shutdown. If you live in hot country, that might be an issue. I would also mention, this parameter is pointed out in the specs.

Grant
 
Thanks for that heads up - I've been doing some searching, and I think I've got a grasp of most of it's cons... I live in an area, where during the summer, we routinely experience >90 degree weather, oftentimes in the upper 90s, and for about a week each year, the 100+ range. If I use some chill packs in my bag, and make sure to keep it ventilated, and turn it off/let it cool down, do you think that could be handled during the occasional outdoor shoot during that time?

Second question though, as I'm looking, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be a half bad idea to upgrade my NTG 1 (I'm reading that if I go so far as to buy a DR 680, or similar, I certainly oughta be putting a better mic in front of it if I can, to get that increase in sound quality I'm after,) with a used AT 4073a, (roughly $400,) and maybe hang on for a used HD P2, (closer to the $450 range on Ebay.) By the time I sell my current rig, that brings me into an affordable range... thoughts on that, anyone? I guess, if I don't see a used P2 on Ebay in the next few weeks, I'll have to spring for the DR680 regardless, but if I can get away with saving the $, while getting the maximum audio quality possible, that would be awesome... I guess, I'm wondering, if it would be better to spend some more $ on an upgraded mic, and a bit less on a recorder... but, that said, I still may bite the bullet and buy the DR 680 and work out a deal on a 4073a... or an NTG3, if I can get an insanely good deal on a used one...

Thanks again for the help!
 
I guess I should clarify exactly what my question was there - do ya'll have an opinion on the comparable value of mics vs recorders/preamps? Would my money be better spent on a less expensive recorder, (e.g. even the Tascam DR100mkii, or something similar) and a better mic, like the Rode NTG 3, or AT 4073a?

Thanks again!
 
Yeah, I have - I'm sort of a DIY junkie, I use a homemade shockmount (which looks three way decent, but not as nice as I could make it look... perfectly functional though) - I'll be building my own blimp in the very near future...
 
The DR-100 looks good on paper. No personal experience but if I was on a tight budget I would go for it.
 
Seth,

I have both a dr100 (gen 1) and a 680. Using a better mic is always a good idea, and the ntg3 for me has been a really good mic. IMHO, the dr100 is a very decent recorder, but if you are using it without a mixer (preamps) you will be limited to hotter mics like the ntg3. So at some point, if you want to use your ntg1 (reported to be not so hot) or other low output mics, like a dynamic, you might come up short. The other issue with anything like a dr100 or H4n is the limitations on bag use; they just aren't designed for that. The preamps on the 680 have much more gain and can handle a low output mic, so you can get by without a mixer for the sake of better preamps. You may want a mixer for all the other things they offer.

Grant
 
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