Audio post software
- Thread starter Networker
- Start date
Pro Tools is the industry standard. That's what I use, but plenty of other people use Logic, Nuendo, and other things. I first learned Pro Tools 5 in college, and then went on to an internship at a post facility in West Hollywood. I really like Pro Tools for what I could do with it. I've used Nuendo a little bit, and didn't have any complaints.
In terms of books, there might be some that cover the basics, but when it comes to technique, tricks, and knowhow, that just comes with experience.
In terms of books, there might be some that cover the basics, but when it comes to technique, tricks, and knowhow, that just comes with experience.
Rippie
Veteran
Networker, what is your ultimate goal in regards to learning software for audio post?
If it's for your own projects there are multiple choices.
If it's to get a job doing post work, or in any situation where files end up needing moved to other post rooms..etc
Pro tools is really the only choice.
Just as Dave said, it's the standard and its what most houses are going to use.
Personally 10 years ago I liked nuendo. I sold that system to buy a protools rig for the above mentioned reasons.
It's funny how nuendo had (in my opinion) more power to it than Protools of today, but what can ya do.
If it's for your own projects there are multiple choices.
If it's to get a job doing post work, or in any situation where files end up needing moved to other post rooms..etc
Pro tools is really the only choice.
Just as Dave said, it's the standard and its what most houses are going to use.
Personally 10 years ago I liked nuendo. I sold that system to buy a protools rig for the above mentioned reasons.
It's funny how nuendo had (in my opinion) more power to it than Protools of today, but what can ya do.
Gregg Juke
Well-known member
Yes, unfortunately, "industry standards" aren't always all they're cracked-up to be.
But Pro Tools certainly is (an industry standard). If you are not looking to work on anything but your own projects (and others that might come to you, regardless of whether you run PT or not), then Sonar is a good choice... along with lots of others!
GJ
But Pro Tools certainly is (an industry standard). If you are not looking to work on anything but your own projects (and others that might come to you, regardless of whether you run PT or not), then Sonar is a good choice... along with lots of others!
GJ
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
THere used to be some others, Sonic Solutions, WaveFrame, but they have all gone away. If you want to work just about anywhere it's ProTools. The only other one used much in the US is the Fairlight. It gets some use for Foley. In europe there is some Nuendo shops but not really in the US.
Doc Bernard
Indie Arms Member
I use Digital Performer, though cert'ed in Protools.
John Willett
Veteran
I use Sequoia - this is the maxed out version of Samplitude.
SADiE and Pyramix are also superb.
These are the best three and the ones used mostly for serious music recording. I was at Abbey Road studios a couple of years ago for a recording of the LSO. It was recorded with over 30 AES42 digital microphones, via RME 842 units and recorded via MADI to Sequoia.
ProTools is popular in many places - some people love it, others hate it to death. It is popular more because it ties in easily with Avid video editing systems.
For the good stuff - like the BBC's Jools Holland programmes that are recorded in 5.0 surround and sold all over the world, they use Pyramix, I understand.
Gregg Juke
Well-known member
If you only want to edit waveforms and do a little fix-up, almost any of them will do (in a "non-pro" environment)-- Sound Forge (an excellent editing program), Reaper, even Garageband.
If you want to do a lot of multi-track recording (foley, voice-overs, adr, general sound design, music composition recording, etc., etc.), then you'd be better off with an actual DAW program-- Pro Tools of course, but also Sonar, Cubase, Logic, etc.
It depends on what you are trying to accomplish.
GJ
If you want to do a lot of multi-track recording (foley, voice-overs, adr, general sound design, music composition recording, etc., etc.), then you'd be better off with an actual DAW program-- Pro Tools of course, but also Sonar, Cubase, Logic, etc.
It depends on what you are trying to accomplish.
GJ
I use Sonar 8.5 but only because I've been working in the Cakewalk environment for over 15 years. It interfaces well with my control surface and allows me to automate nearly every parameter easily. Automation envelope node editing is very easy as well and I can quicky grab a node handle or envelope and tweak. It looks like as soon as I put together my new post audio workstation, I'll migrate to Pro Tools 9 (I've heard it's a real horsepower pig).
For my workflow, the software has to do four things well:
Edits non-destructively
Allow for nesting to easily manage stems
Provide robust automation of pertinent parameters include level, equilization, and dynamics (I can sometimes have as many as 5 or 6 automation envelopes operating on a single track simulaneously).
Support for over 100 tracks
For my workflow, the software has to do four things well:
Edits non-destructively
Allow for nesting to easily manage stems
Provide robust automation of pertinent parameters include level, equilization, and dynamics (I can sometimes have as many as 5 or 6 automation envelopes operating on a single track simulaneously).
Support for over 100 tracks
Gregg Juke
Well-known member
PS-- There are books written (long-form manuals, really) for each program, and several on PT alone. Once you decide on a program, then you can get a book/tutorial material to go along with it. They even have video manuals on DVD for a lot of the programs and hardware out there.
GJ
GJ
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
Though it looks promising last I checked it had no OMF in or out and didn't work with video. Has that changed? Because if not then as "post software" it's not really an option.
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
THere have been a bunch of packages mentioned. Part of this is I think that you were maybe not as specific as you needed to be.
There is a lot of software used in post, a bit less if your only looking at post sound for picture.
If your working on your own and don't need to move projects the world is your oyster.
If your learning because you want to get work in post sound on Hollywood features your world just got very small.
If your learning because you want to get work in post sound on features outside of the US your world is a bit small.
If your in music then again the world is pretty varied.
If the goal isn't to get hired on a post crew then the Mac VS Windows becomes an issue. In the all encompassing world of sound apps many are not cross platform, or have a strong preference for one over the other.
And that agin is heavily influenced by what world your aiming at. Film audio post in the US is dominated by Mac. When I say dominated I mean like probably 60% - 80%. Part of this is because of the Pro Tools domination and the fact that PT originally only ran on Mac and has generally run better on Mac's than on Windows. Kind of ironic since Avid, that also started out as Mac only, runs better on Windows than Mac. It's a bit better now that every one is running the same CPUs but it's still nowhere near as smooth as it could be if the two giants stopped trying to kill each other. It's also a bit smoother since there are really only two OSs now Windows and Unix (OSX is a very nice shell for BSD Unix).
But beyond DAWs there are two track editors like Sound Forge and DSP Quatro, and stand alone apps (that often have some plugin interface to a DAW) like RX and Melodyne. If your your own shop then you need lots of translation software so that the files that clients give you can be turned into something you can actually use.
And if your doing a lot of editing you probably should also get some cataloging software for your sounds. That ranges for the top of the line tools like Soundminer that can run close to $1k down to freebies. I even have one that is a slightly polished version of a Filemaker DB I created before buying SoundMiner. You can have that for free, though I don't think I can make a Windows version with out having a Windows version of FM so Mac only.
In terms of books. Again it really depends on your goal. There are a very few that are directly related to a career sound post person. But there are lots of books that will give you info that will be useful.
I would start off going through the Stickies at the top on post sound. There is a lot of info there. You can also hop over the the Digdesign Users Conference post section. I know I liked it in some other post so you can search here of Google.
There is a lot of software used in post, a bit less if your only looking at post sound for picture.
If your working on your own and don't need to move projects the world is your oyster.
If your learning because you want to get work in post sound on Hollywood features your world just got very small.
If your learning because you want to get work in post sound on features outside of the US your world is a bit small.
If your in music then again the world is pretty varied.
If the goal isn't to get hired on a post crew then the Mac VS Windows becomes an issue. In the all encompassing world of sound apps many are not cross platform, or have a strong preference for one over the other.
And that agin is heavily influenced by what world your aiming at. Film audio post in the US is dominated by Mac. When I say dominated I mean like probably 60% - 80%. Part of this is because of the Pro Tools domination and the fact that PT originally only ran on Mac and has generally run better on Mac's than on Windows. Kind of ironic since Avid, that also started out as Mac only, runs better on Windows than Mac. It's a bit better now that every one is running the same CPUs but it's still nowhere near as smooth as it could be if the two giants stopped trying to kill each other. It's also a bit smoother since there are really only two OSs now Windows and Unix (OSX is a very nice shell for BSD Unix).
But beyond DAWs there are two track editors like Sound Forge and DSP Quatro, and stand alone apps (that often have some plugin interface to a DAW) like RX and Melodyne. If your your own shop then you need lots of translation software so that the files that clients give you can be turned into something you can actually use.
And if your doing a lot of editing you probably should also get some cataloging software for your sounds. That ranges for the top of the line tools like Soundminer that can run close to $1k down to freebies. I even have one that is a slightly polished version of a Filemaker DB I created before buying SoundMiner. You can have that for free, though I don't think I can make a Windows version with out having a Windows version of FM so Mac only.
In terms of books. Again it really depends on your goal. There are a very few that are directly related to a career sound post person. But there are lots of books that will give you info that will be useful.
I would start off going through the Stickies at the top on post sound. There is a lot of info there. You can also hop over the the Digdesign Users Conference post section. I know I liked it in some other post so you can search here of Google.
Ok, I'll fix that;
I'm doing this for my own enjoyment. I like learning new stuff. However, I've been ordering off of the Senior Menu at IHOP for a few years now and halfway into the next administration - whether that will be Obama or somebody else - I will be eligible for retirement after close to two decades in IT. So I'm not looking for a second - or third - career. My goal is to be able to produce or create the best possible audio for my videos.
Audio has always been one of my interests, ever since I got to play with a Tandberg Model 11 way back when our fossil fuels were still walking.
I find the concept of "sound design" fascinating. To the point that I recorded myself reading, tried to remove all "extra" sounds to get it as dead a possible, and then tried to add layers of effects to make it sound different. Not too successful, but it was fun. Now I need to learn more, and get some better hardware. And find the software to do all this.
For what little music stuff I do, loops and such, I have Abelton Light.
I'm a Premiere Pro CS5 user, but I also have Sony Vegas Pro 8. I switched to PP since Vegas seems to be headed towards catering to the Sony cameras only and I'm using a DVX and do not foresee ever switching to Sony.
Is that still the case? I can do Windows and Linux, and probably most versions of Unix. I may even manage VMX if I had to, but I don't do Apple
And from the replies here it seems like Pro Tools is the way to go.Once I get a feel for what is needed, I can probably cobble something usable together in SQL Express, or look closer at what is available commercially. I'll probably be back with more questions once I get to that point.
I guess a search on Amazon will give some leads. Now that I have a few software titles to search for I will start there. Unless of course you have a title or two to suggest?
I've been through the stickies before, but that was a good while ago, so I guess it's time to get back over there. I'll head on over to the Digidesign Users Conference too. I own some M-Audio gear so maybe I can get a deal on the Pro Tools LE or something to get my feet wet. They keep sending me email offers all the time.
Thanks to everybody who have been kind enough to offer up suggestions. You've given me lots of research to do. I'll probably be back with more questions.
Your interest in sound for film may soon prove to be an addictive desease. Some of us here are already afflicted. Fair Warning:
Sound for film, and especially doing sound for film well, is not about software or hardware. It's about hours, and days, and weeks, and years, of the pursuit. I recently heard that it takes 10,000 hours to master a craft. That seems about right for film sound. Also keep this in mind. It is not unusual, nor unexpected, to invest somewhere between 10 to 15 hours per sceen minute on sound for film. This does not include scoring or music, but simply the time it takes to get dialog sounding right (and dialog is just the beginning), and the tone of the scene, and then Foley, and sound fx, and them mixing in the score (I don't score films, but work with composers), and then the final mix. Although I am primarily a location sound mixer, my recent work in post audio has been the most challenging thing I've ever done with audio work. If I had to quess, I'll spend the rest of my life trying to master it.
Sound for film, and especially doing sound for film well, is not about software or hardware. It's about hours, and days, and weeks, and years, of the pursuit. I recently heard that it takes 10,000 hours to master a craft. That seems about right for film sound. Also keep this in mind. It is not unusual, nor unexpected, to invest somewhere between 10 to 15 hours per sceen minute on sound for film. This does not include scoring or music, but simply the time it takes to get dialog sounding right (and dialog is just the beginning), and the tone of the scene, and then Foley, and sound fx, and them mixing in the score (I don't score films, but work with composers), and then the final mix. Although I am primarily a location sound mixer, my recent work in post audio has been the most challenging thing I've ever done with audio work. If I had to quess, I'll spend the rest of my life trying to master it.
I have protools because we learned it at school and it was quite "cheap" (the mbox mini). Few days ago I was in a "fairlight studio" where I can learn the fairlight console. My first impression was very good, only thing is...it's so easy and "logic" that you have to learn it again.... Like there are no stupid fade files like protools has.... making a fade is just one button. You also can cut and paste etc during play (which nuendo also has).
Just a combination of all three would be ideal...Mmmm, maybe I should just invent one and sell it
Just a combination of all three would be ideal...Mmmm, maybe I should just invent one and sell it
If you want to get your feet wet, and not spend any money, check out Audacity. It's free, and it does the basics of what the big programs do. I've used it for basic stuff when I was away from my pro tools rig. You can download it for free here:
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/
I don't think you can use video in it (someone correct me if I'm wrong, here), but it will at least give you the sense of how a DAW works, and you can just mess around with it.
I haven't used Pro Tools on a PC in long time, but it worked OK...most of the time when I did use it, but that was back with XP on Pro Tools version 6.
John Willett mentioned some DAW's that I've heard of, but haven't used, but have heard really great things about. I have no idea what they cost. Pro Tools 9 has become cheaper, and allows you to use any interface you want.
Really, since you are just doing stuff right now for your enjoyment, and to learn something new, there is no reason to spend tons of money on a system. I think you should find something that will do what you want it to, as well as work with your existing computer.
Chadfish
Veteran
Vegas started as a DAW, and is quite cabable of handling sound design. You could mix an album with it. I use Cubase, which is really great, and is very much like it's expensive sibling Nuendo. I've done post audio for an entire feature using Cubase, and found it fun and not too confusing, but I've been at audio for a long time. But you can import an OMF file into Cubase, as well as the video and start editing the timeline as it appears in the video editor. Cubase goes for 500.00, and has a suite of great plug-ins as well as fun music making tools too, that you'd have to pay extra for in Nuendo.