I see lots of introductory advice on equipment, but what I'm really pining for is a good source for introductory information in the hands-on, how-to aspects of audio-for-video production. Something that delves into techniques and so forth, like how to set levels in-camera, use a mixer, or how to adjust audio in post. Are there any good books anyone can recommend? Tutorials? I KNOW--there are lots of instructional threads sprinkled here and elsewhere. But I'm looking for some real basic 101 stuff. Example of my ignorance: I don't really know what an attenuator is, other than it magically reduces signals instead of amplifying them. The jargon in audio is horrendous if you are not already immersed in it.
Audio for Video 101
- Thread starter gibbygoo
- Start date
Gregg Juke
Well-known member
An attenuator is just a fancy name for a volume knob.GJ
Well, here's a great starting place: http://dvxuser.com/articles/dvxshop/SoundDVD/
How to adjust audio in post? The mechanics of that are dependent on what you're using. ProTools? Final Cut Pro? AVID? Adobe Premiere? _____? The principles are somewhat universal, but how you get there depends on what you drive.
How to adjust audio in post? The mechanics of that are dependent on what you're using. ProTools? Final Cut Pro? AVID? Adobe Premiere? _____? The principles are somewhat universal, but how you get there depends on what you drive.
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
The stickies are actually good since they will concentrate info on a specific topic in a single thread.
For real basics HOME RECORDING FOR MUSICIANS by Craig Anderton is great.
Also useful is the SOUND REINFORCEMENT HANDBOOK by Yamaha.
Both predate the digital take over but most of what you deal with in sound is analog so nothing except references to recorders is really out of date.
For post you may want to look at the thread here that is about a series of tutorial videos on post. They are a good start.
The stickie on post actually goes over a lot of the mechanics also.
Attenuate just means to reduce. There are a number of ways to do it but generally it's done with a resistor. A component that resists the from of electricity. Kind of like pinching a garden hose.
There is some "jargon", if you mean the kinds of words that are specific to an industry but mean the same as more common terms, but not a huge amount. If you mean that there are a lot of new terms then yes there is. But that is true with any industry. Attenuator for instance is not a "sound" term but an electrical one. There are a lot of electronics in sound so you hear a lot of electronics terms. It's a learning curve.
For real basics HOME RECORDING FOR MUSICIANS by Craig Anderton is great.
Also useful is the SOUND REINFORCEMENT HANDBOOK by Yamaha.
Both predate the digital take over but most of what you deal with in sound is analog so nothing except references to recorders is really out of date.
For post you may want to look at the thread here that is about a series of tutorial videos on post. They are a good start.
The stickie on post actually goes over a lot of the mechanics also.
Attenuate just means to reduce. There are a number of ways to do it but generally it's done with a resistor. A component that resists the from of electricity. Kind of like pinching a garden hose.
There is some "jargon", if you mean the kinds of words that are specific to an industry but mean the same as more common terms, but not a huge amount. If you mean that there are a lot of new terms then yes there is. But that is true with any industry. Attenuator for instance is not a "sound" term but an electrical one. There are a lot of electronics in sound so you hear a lot of electronics terms. It's a learning curve.
gonzo_entertainment
Veteran
And my advice to ALL filmmakers is establish a good relationship with an audio guy.
It's overtaxing enough to try and direct or keep your mind properly focused on the big picture of the project (be it a film, music video, commercial, whatever) while you're trying to operate the camera at the same time. Trying to do the creative side at the same time you're operating the camera, at the same time you're trying to focus on getting good audio, is pretty close to impossible. You just can't do it. Good audio requires a good audio guy in his headphone world, doing NOTHING but focusing 1000% of his attention on the audio.
It's overtaxing enough to try and direct or keep your mind properly focused on the big picture of the project (be it a film, music video, commercial, whatever) while you're trying to operate the camera at the same time. Trying to do the creative side at the same time you're operating the camera, at the same time you're trying to focus on getting good audio, is pretty close to impossible. You just can't do it. Good audio requires a good audio guy in his headphone world, doing NOTHING but focusing 1000% of his attention on the audio.
Steve House
Veteran
Well said, Gonzo!
Doc Bernard
Indie Arms Member
Agreed, well put, Gonzo. Another book I recommend is the "Master Handbook of Acoustics", and "A Visual Guide to Mixing". All of the books mentioned, including the ones Noiz2 stated, were utilized in the curriculum when I went to school for audio back in the day.
rogar-BigGrin(DBG)
Oh, Gregg, I am surprised at you. A pad is also an attenuator. An attenuator is any device/component/circuit that purposely decreases the volume of an audio signal flowing through it, if related to audio.
rogar-BigGrin(DBG)
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j1clark@ucsd.edu
Veteran
Agreed, well put, Gonzo. Another book I recommend is the "Master Handbook of Acoustics", and "A Visual Guide to Mixing". All of the books mentioned, including the ones Noiz2 stated, were utilized in the curriculum when I went to school for audio back in the day.
Oh, Gregg, I am surprised at you. A pad is also an attenuator. An attenuator is any device/component/circuit that purposely decreases the volume of an audio signal flowing through it, if related to audio.
A friend who was a musician and an engineer worked at Thomas Organ, and became the department 'translator' to go between 'musician speak' to 'engineering speak'...
Doc Bernard
Indie Arms Member
Yikes, that would be a full time job. Man, I could tell stories about trying do that exact thing.
Musician: "I want this X sound"
Engineer: "Do you know what they used to get that sound?"
M: "No"
E: "Okay describe it"
M: "I can't, but it was unique"
E: "God, give me patience"
Musician: "I want this X sound"
Engineer: "Do you know what they used to get that sound?"
M: "No"
E: "Okay describe it"
M: "I can't, but it was unique"
E: "God, give me patience"
Gregg Juke
Well-known member
Sorry Doc. I was thinking "Audio 101."
Interestingly enough, I have also been an attenuator myself on several occassions, when placing my head near the kick drum to move
a microphone, and the drummer decided to blast the bass drum pedal and crank the snare at the same time.
I guess I was more of a "diffuser," but you get the idea...
GJ
Interestingly enough, I have also been an attenuator myself on several occassions, when placing my head near the kick drum to move
a microphone, and the drummer decided to blast the bass drum pedal and crank the snare at the same time.
I guess I was more of a "diffuser," but you get the idea...
GJ
There are some great classes out there that teach production sound and post production sound, if you really want to get hands on. Reading a book or watching a video is great, but I'm the type of person that learns by doing, and I have to actually do things to learn them.
WOW! Fantastic feedback, guys. I really appreciate your specific references to books, classes etc. I'm destined to be a one-man band, I think, and obviously I'm already in anguish over how to find some balance between light and sound. When possible, I certainly will get that "sound guy" on board. What I do most is small-business interviews, spot reporting, location interviews and event coverage. I don't have any particular needs for music recording or event-speaker recording.
One specific thing I want to improve on is getting clean yet more natural-sounding interview audio. I record to my EX1r with Channel 2 wired to an EMW Countryman lav ("shelved") and CHANNEL 1 set to the internal mic. Both are manually set to about level 7 on the dials. That seems to get me in the ballpark most of the time. To be honest, in setting up a shoot I do little more than check the dials and "ear-ball it" through my headphones to make sure the voice level hits about 3/4 of the way over to the clipping point. I almost always dial back the internal mic to practically zero once I've got it in the timeline. That leaves me with the lav recording, which is fine, but it just doesn't sound natural.
Any general "next step" advice on how I could improve? Maybe a good shotgun mic in lieu of the onboard mic? Shotgun on a boompole? Would a mixer be helpful for a situation such as a stationary interview inside a small store or shop (and no sound person, just me running the rig)?
Thanks again for all your great input. I will definitely dig deeper into the forums and other resources here at dvxuser and elsewhere.
One specific thing I want to improve on is getting clean yet more natural-sounding interview audio. I record to my EX1r with Channel 2 wired to an EMW Countryman lav ("shelved") and CHANNEL 1 set to the internal mic. Both are manually set to about level 7 on the dials. That seems to get me in the ballpark most of the time. To be honest, in setting up a shoot I do little more than check the dials and "ear-ball it" through my headphones to make sure the voice level hits about 3/4 of the way over to the clipping point. I almost always dial back the internal mic to practically zero once I've got it in the timeline. That leaves me with the lav recording, which is fine, but it just doesn't sound natural.
Any general "next step" advice on how I could improve? Maybe a good shotgun mic in lieu of the onboard mic? Shotgun on a boompole? Would a mixer be helpful for a situation such as a stationary interview inside a small store or shop (and no sound person, just me running the rig)?
Thanks again for all your great input. I will definitely dig deeper into the forums and other resources here at dvxuser and elsewhere.
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Is the lav omni or directional? You probably want omni for this.
Using an external mic to get it away from the camera for one of those Channel 2's might make a difference. If you're only using it for env recording, don't bother with the boompole -- and remember you'd need a second person to handle that too...
Using an external mic to get it away from the camera for one of those Channel 2's might make a difference. If you're only using it for env recording, don't bother with the boompole -- and remember you'd need a second person to handle that too...
It's omni. Will it matter if I upgrade to the "pristine audio quality" (according to a chart I read on the B&H website) of the Sanken cos11? I have no qualms about the price tag if the quality of the device is better (all else being equal). For a shotgun I'm looking at a Rode NTG2. Not sure what justifies that higher cost of the NTG3, but again, I'll invest if there is really an improvement right out of the box.
I'd also like to hear any feedback on the RELATIVE audio recording quality of the EX1r. Is it pretty good? My only comparison is a Panny HMC150, a Zoom H4n and the exquisite sound quality of the onboard mic of the 5D.
I'm starting to see that compromise is inevitable when it comes to pro quality sound for one-man crews. I really need an assistant, don't I?
My work is all doc, event and feature reporting. I've been limping along since diving into this profession a few years ago. Even when I started, I knew pro-quality audio would be ESSENTIAL. But here I am, 3 years in, and yet I have embarrassing little audio-production knowledge. (Hiring a sound guy for an upcoming project would probably be worth the investment, if only to give me some hands-on training...)
Anyway, thanks again to all of you for the great input.
I'd also like to hear any feedback on the RELATIVE audio recording quality of the EX1r. Is it pretty good? My only comparison is a Panny HMC150, a Zoom H4n and the exquisite sound quality of the onboard mic of the 5D.
I'm starting to see that compromise is inevitable when it comes to pro quality sound for one-man crews. I really need an assistant, don't I?
My work is all doc, event and feature reporting. I've been limping along since diving into this profession a few years ago. Even when I started, I knew pro-quality audio would be ESSENTIAL. But here I am, 3 years in, and yet I have embarrassing little audio-production knowledge. (Hiring a sound guy for an upcoming project would probably be worth the investment, if only to give me some hands-on training...)
Anyway, thanks again to all of you for the great input.
Steve House
Veteran
I assume you're being facetious here.
+1 on the sound for film & television dvd as probably the best place to start. Then it should only take a few months (full time) to wade thru the audio forum here...
I's also recommend Jay Rose's "Audio Postproduction for Digital Video" ISBN 1-57820-116-0. He also has a website @ www.dplay.com.
My humble .02. A camera mounted mic is just about universally the WORST POSSIBLE solution to any situation. Put the mic on a stick and hand it to the talent if nothing else. The forum is full of the pro's and con's of alternative solutions to difficult situations.
Kudo's for caring enough to ask the question.
Best wishes
I's also recommend Jay Rose's "Audio Postproduction for Digital Video" ISBN 1-57820-116-0. He also has a website @ www.dplay.com.
My humble .02. A camera mounted mic is just about universally the WORST POSSIBLE solution to any situation. Put the mic on a stick and hand it to the talent if nothing else. The forum is full of the pro's and con's of alternative solutions to difficult situations.
Kudo's for caring enough to ask the question.
Best wishes
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sonofaresiii
Well-known member
yeah, getting clean, natural sound with a one-man crew is a little like wanting to do a feature on a sony handicam. let's not say it *can't* be done, but... good luck, buddy.
i too scoured sites and bookstores trying to improve my audio work, and it wasn't until i took an intro class at school did i really learn the things i needed to. i don't think you're going to find what you're looking for in a book, my suggestions would be to volunteer your time as an assistant for some other guy's shoot.
i too scoured sites and bookstores trying to improve my audio work, and it wasn't until i took an intro class at school did i really learn the things i needed to. i don't think you're going to find what you're looking for in a book, my suggestions would be to volunteer your time as an assistant for some other guy's shoot.