would anyone hear know how they capture audio in Survivor. I am set to do a multi-character docu trekking in the jungle and have so far been amazed at the audio recordings of that show. I have been trying to catch wireless mike clues but seem to not find any (this could be due to good edits), nor would I think there's a boom man somewhere in the bushes. In short, Im very puzzled
audio for "survivor"
- Thread starter dahon man
- Start date
MattinSTL
Sound Modulator
There are MANY wireless sets (any time possible everyone is mic'ed) and YES there IS a boom man in the bushes... everybody on that show is trained (or instructed?) in how to ignore the gear and crews surrounding them... and the more you shoot the more you'll be aware of how that process goes... it's hard for people to ignore gear for a given amount of time (depending on the person) but in most cases people genuinely forget about the crew as if it's part of the scenery...
There's a long gun on people probably MOST of the time.
I don't remember why I started doing this... but I boom a lot of stuff from down low... just because you don't see a mic... and you have headspace... doesn't mean there isn't a mic right off some other edge of the frame.
A good cam op and soundguy team can really get to know each other well... some of the guys I shoot with will just raise a finger without taking their hand off the cam... I watch the shot and I watch that finger the entire time during a critical take... I give myself an extra inch or two, but I keep right at the edge and as long as that finger doesn't pop up I know I'm good... when dialog gets important I watch to see if action is going to move... or if the cam op is going to move... and I notice his feet... if the cam swings toward the mic I'm ready to keep moving to skirt the frame.
When you watch survivor and appreciate the good sound... that's because a professional is doing everything he can to make it sound like that... nobody is coasting along in that job... I guarantee that boom op is tired as hell at the end of his shift. In case anybody from CBS comes by this board... that would be my dream gig. PM me and I'll pack my bags. ;-)
There's a long gun on people probably MOST of the time.
I don't remember why I started doing this... but I boom a lot of stuff from down low... just because you don't see a mic... and you have headspace... doesn't mean there isn't a mic right off some other edge of the frame.
A good cam op and soundguy team can really get to know each other well... some of the guys I shoot with will just raise a finger without taking their hand off the cam... I watch the shot and I watch that finger the entire time during a critical take... I give myself an extra inch or two, but I keep right at the edge and as long as that finger doesn't pop up I know I'm good... when dialog gets important I watch to see if action is going to move... or if the cam op is going to move... and I notice his feet... if the cam swings toward the mic I'm ready to keep moving to skirt the frame.
When you watch survivor and appreciate the good sound... that's because a professional is doing everything he can to make it sound like that... nobody is coasting along in that job... I guarantee that boom op is tired as hell at the end of his shift. In case anybody from CBS comes by this board... that would be my dream gig. PM me and I'll pack my bags. ;-)
I haven't personally worked on Survivor, but I can tell you that it is a combination of wireless lavs and booms.
I'm working on a new reality series with twelve cameras for up to ten talent at once. They're (the talent) all wireless at all times. For remotes out of the studio complex, we have more typical three and four-channel (302s / 442s) field audio operator setups.
All camera operators are on IFB headset in one ear and radios in the other. The operator's assigned talent and director respectively. All audio is routed into two DEVAs for pre-roll capable 8-track recording.
We've got multi-coupled audio distribution set up in the complex - should mention that things are consolidated a bit for housekeeping / speed to set and strike reasons.
Good luck.
e
I'm working on a new reality series with twelve cameras for up to ten talent at once. They're (the talent) all wireless at all times. For remotes out of the studio complex, we have more typical three and four-channel (302s / 442s) field audio operator setups.
All camera operators are on IFB headset in one ear and radios in the other. The operator's assigned talent and director respectively. All audio is routed into two DEVAs for pre-roll capable 8-track recording.
We've got multi-coupled audio distribution set up in the complex - should mention that things are consolidated a bit for housekeeping / speed to set and strike reasons.
Good luck.
e
Jeremy Ordan
Major Contributor
bwest said:
As close as possible without being in the frame.
Great information Overland! Why I didn't inquire about that when we were shooting I will never understand.
wabbit
Evil has Ears
I forget if I posted this here before but this is an article on a guy who mixes for Survivor. http://www.trewaudio.com/mixer/20050608/jonandrews.htm
If you do a search at RAMPS, there is an old discussion on there with some guys that work Survivor. As I remember it, 95% boom with some hidden plant mics and re-recording lines on location (as well as a TON of brilliant post production).
Basically, these guys are the best in the business IMHO.
If you do a search at RAMPS, there is an old discussion on there with some guys that work Survivor. As I remember it, 95% boom with some hidden plant mics and re-recording lines on location (as well as a TON of brilliant post production).
Basically, these guys are the best in the business IMHO.
MattinSTL
Sound Modulator
wabbit said:
Great... so you're saying they're not gonna' come looking for me and my Oktava that I made pretty by melting crayons all over it?
Bwest... long guns kick ass. Distance pickup is relative to the environment... but some rules can be broken when your gear is high-end enough (and again, the environment allows it). I can get some surprisingly detailed and isolated dialog with the ck69 long... from like 10' away... I've already proved it with a clip... but I'll show you guys again pretty soon.
Wabbit,
That's an excellent and accurate article, thanks for posting it.
e
That's an excellent and accurate article, thanks for posting it.
e
MattinSTL
Sound Modulator
bwest said:
In a way... yes... for a situation like survivor I'd expect they're using something like an mkh-70... for the wide shot frame in a fairly controlled environment (where the only unexpected sounds are those that you WANT to hear anyway) a long gun can be a great thing... but don't forget:
MattinSTL said:
Please don't overlook my qualifiers. 10' of distance is normally a rediculous distance to expect "intimate" sound... what I'm saying is that if you have a quiet environment without reflections or acoustics which prevent you from realizing the isolation of a long gun (through gain)... then you'd be surprised how good they really work... even at distances that aren't normally acceptable.
In all fairness I only use the long gun on occasion... my mic use is probably 40% hyper, 15% cardioid, 15% lav, 20% short gun, and 10% long gun... roughly. I get the long gun out when I have a boom op that I FULLY trust (or else I'm booming myself)... and when the situation makes it my best option.
I just don't want to give you the impression that the long gun is a do anything miracle stick... but yes, for situations like survivor I would expect long guns to be used A LOT!
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The ratio of use is a greater ratio it gets discussed here on the board! I understand its a dangerous mic for the novice because of its extreme directionality, but it seems a good choice for outdoor wide settings like this thread starts out! I did read your earlier post, some time ago, when using it as an on camera mic! A ballsy thing to state, but you said you got good sound! Now you mention it again, so naturally, I'm interested, as should be ''dahon man'' who started this thread...I assume!
Thanks everyone! I shall be pretty much a 1-man crew for this indie expedition that I am hoping to do this docu on. This is a noob question, but is there an accessory I can get to record, say, four mics to the 2 xlr inputs of, say, the hvx. A boom person would be impossible in my situation because it is a trekking film and again, no budget.
Mattin, I have read a lot of your helpful posts and if I were producer of Survivor, you'd be in. Do you have an idea what the pick-up pattern for this long gun is? For dialog, I was thinking of pre-setting my 4 characters about 9 feet away, them being about a foot apart. Would i get optimal 4 character audio with that?
Overland and wabbit, thanks for the great info. My specific situation is, I am self-producing a docu about a long trek in the Philippines by aboriginals. I am leaning on the idea of a long gun instead of wireless, since most of these people dont even wear shirts for me to hide mics in. A boom is out of the question for my resources and subject. What do you guys think?
Mattin, I have read a lot of your helpful posts and if I were producer of Survivor, you'd be in. Do you have an idea what the pick-up pattern for this long gun is? For dialog, I was thinking of pre-setting my 4 characters about 9 feet away, them being about a foot apart. Would i get optimal 4 character audio with that?
Overland and wabbit, thanks for the great info. My specific situation is, I am self-producing a docu about a long trek in the Philippines by aboriginals. I am leaning on the idea of a long gun instead of wireless, since most of these people dont even wear shirts for me to hide mics in. A boom is out of the question for my resources and subject. What do you guys think?
timapter
Veteran
ha ha! funny post above this.
anyway, im friendly with a south african guy who just got back from recording sound on the latest american survivor (im not allowed to say where, i dont think, he said i couldnt say or he'd be in crap for contract breach). Anyway, a chunk of the Survivor USA crew is SOUTH AFRICAN! 1 point for a backward country. Anyway, the rigs for challenges and immunity are different, and shot by different crews (we're talking multitracking/multi wireless/plants etc). The reality segments are very simple - MKH70 (good guess Matt) into Wendt X2 into Lectro 200 Tx going to Lectro 2xx Receiver on cam. Mono. For the interviews, he kills the wireless link and goes hardwired to cam for surety of audio transmission.
So yeah, there ya go.
anyway, im friendly with a south african guy who just got back from recording sound on the latest american survivor (im not allowed to say where, i dont think, he said i couldnt say or he'd be in crap for contract breach). Anyway, a chunk of the Survivor USA crew is SOUTH AFRICAN! 1 point for a backward country. Anyway, the rigs for challenges and immunity are different, and shot by different crews (we're talking multitracking/multi wireless/plants etc). The reality segments are very simple - MKH70 (good guess Matt) into Wendt X2 into Lectro 200 Tx going to Lectro 2xx Receiver on cam. Mono. For the interviews, he kills the wireless link and goes hardwired to cam for surety of audio transmission.
So yeah, there ya go.
MattinSTL
Sound Modulator
Bwaaaahaa-haaa! You made my day Tim! 
If budgets aren't a concern then you can tell me the situation and I'll tell you the best mic to use. Hee-hee... thanks.
I've been using the 200 series Lectros and a Sanken CS3 for a month now (more tomorrow morning at crew call 6am... fudge, but happy fudge... work is good... 6a? ahem... that means 3:45 wake up for me)... anyway... the CS3 is a nice mic... but I'm not as sold on it as a lot of soundguys are... I'd take the mkh60 or 70 first... and frankly... even the AKG ck69 has been kicking serious ass for me lately. I've been quietly using that mic while being afraid to say how much I like it because it's such a minority choice... but the more I use it the more I like it... and this is the FIRST shotgun that has satisfied me.
The 200 series Letros are one of my latest objects of gear lust... it would be nice to own a couple of these sets... they are rock solid and you know exactly what's going on the entire time. It's really nice to have that display on each receiver to assure you of battery and signal on each transmitter... not to mention for most stuff it sounds about as perfect as a wire.
Tomorrow I'll be running a 442 and that is one bad ass mixer... since most reality shows run a crapload of mics to individual tracks this is almost off topic... but I could write a long post on this mixer alone... that thing is mechanical sex for a guy who's into sound... it does everything you could ever want a mixer to do... a while back Khmuse was asking what we would want in a high-end mixer... man could I ever answer that question now.
Okay now waflowers... how are you going to get me a sound job on the show?:huh:
If budgets aren't a concern then you can tell me the situation and I'll tell you the best mic to use. Hee-hee... thanks.I've been using the 200 series Lectros and a Sanken CS3 for a month now (more tomorrow morning at crew call 6am... fudge, but happy fudge... work is good... 6a? ahem... that means 3:45 wake up for me)... anyway... the CS3 is a nice mic... but I'm not as sold on it as a lot of soundguys are... I'd take the mkh60 or 70 first... and frankly... even the AKG ck69 has been kicking serious ass for me lately. I've been quietly using that mic while being afraid to say how much I like it because it's such a minority choice... but the more I use it the more I like it... and this is the FIRST shotgun that has satisfied me.
The 200 series Letros are one of my latest objects of gear lust... it would be nice to own a couple of these sets... they are rock solid and you know exactly what's going on the entire time. It's really nice to have that display on each receiver to assure you of battery and signal on each transmitter... not to mention for most stuff it sounds about as perfect as a wire.
Tomorrow I'll be running a 442 and that is one bad ass mixer... since most reality shows run a crapload of mics to individual tracks this is almost off topic... but I could write a long post on this mixer alone... that thing is mechanical sex for a guy who's into sound... it does everything you could ever want a mixer to do... a while back Khmuse was asking what we would want in a high-end mixer... man could I ever answer that question now.
Okay now waflowers... how are you going to get me a sound job on the show?:huh:
wabbit
Evil has Ears
MattinSTL said:
You go Matt, fight the power!!! Hey, it you like it, it's good for you.
Dahon, if you are suggesting mounting a long gun on your camera, DON'T! A short gun is problimatic enough, a long on the camera will only screw you more. You don't have to hire a professional sound guy but bring along a PA to at least try and boom the talent. And for that I would just skip the long gun and go with a simple short gun since a novice will have a hell of time keeping multiple people on axis. You will also want to keep the boom wireless to the camera if you are treking in the wilderness.
Good luck
timapter
Veteran
i dunno matt, surely it cant be experience that allows you to predict mics in shows. im just gonna chalk it up to some sort of telepathy..
nice one...
i dunno if its just me, but i have a SERIOUS fascination with "what mics were used on what show".. i love knowing that kind of stuff because it gives a good idea as to what sound you can get in a certain situation with a certain mic.. useful.
nice one...
i dunno if its just me, but i have a SERIOUS fascination with "what mics were used on what show".. i love knowing that kind of stuff because it gives a good idea as to what sound you can get in a certain situation with a certain mic.. useful.
442 is super-sexy, but still heavier than two 302s. Six for the price of four. Yeah baby, yeah! Both are better than trying to power a DEVA off-the-shoulder - or poke the interface with that little stylus.
Poke... DAMN! Poke... DAMN! Stand still... poke... got it!
e
Poke... DAMN! Poke... DAMN! Stand still... poke... got it!
e
Dave_Fisk
Well-known member
Uh....I have to tell you guys a little secret. The production audio that comes in from that show isn't all that great, actually...almost unusable.
It gets posted over at WildWoods, and I used to work over there on Fear Factor, which was the same kind of deal. Survivor was treated just like a feature, with the acception that we couldn't loop anything. We cut hard FX, backgrounds, recorded foley, and had to edit the crap out of that dialogue to get it to work. We also had (and still have) and awesome re-recording mixer to make it sound like we didn't do a damn thing.
Granted, that show is incredibly tough, production wise, but all those reality shows go through a pretty rigorous post process so they sound good.
-Dave
It gets posted over at WildWoods, and I used to work over there on Fear Factor, which was the same kind of deal. Survivor was treated just like a feature, with the acception that we couldn't loop anything. We cut hard FX, backgrounds, recorded foley, and had to edit the crap out of that dialogue to get it to work. We also had (and still have) and awesome re-recording mixer to make it sound like we didn't do a damn thing.
Granted, that show is incredibly tough, production wise, but all those reality shows go through a pretty rigorous post process so they sound good.
-Dave