Audio Dropouts on DVX100A

K

Kris_Carrillo

Member
So I had to take my brand new DVX100A in to a Panasonic service center today. I've been experiencing the same intermittent audio dropouts that others have reported on the 2-pop forum. See thread:

http://www.uemforums.com/2pop/ubbth...=1&newerval=3&newertype=m&olderval=&oldertype

I was just wondering if anyone else has had this problem, and if they've figured out what causes it or what fixes it. A few weeks back I was shooting a scene and upon review of the footage I was horrified to hear audio dropping out every few seconds. I ran a head cleaner, and then ran a test to try to replicate the problem, but the tape was clean and audio was unbroken. I use the Panasonic MQ's. So I thought I was out of the woods until this past weekend when I was working another shoot, and the same audio dropouts appeared on one of two tapes I shot. It's weird because the first tape I shot was fine, but the second tape had the audio dropouts and made some very critical interviews worthless. The dropouts are not audible during recording, only on playback. Needless to say, I'm extremely disappointed. I owned and operated a PD150 for two years and never had a single audio problem--ever.

Has anyone had this problem? I'm even kind of leary taking it in to get serviced, since the problem is intermittent and hard to replicate. I'm afraid they might just clean the heads, give it back, and say everything's OK. Man, this really sucks. I've already lost a lot of critical footage, and I may have to cancel other jobs since I don't have a camera now.

I hope Panasonic stands behind their product and addresses this issue. The audio dropouts are completely unacceptable, and it's ridiculous to have to run double-system sound just for peace of mind. That's all the ranting I have for now,

Kris
WCTV 56
 
Re: Audio Dropouts on DVX100A

Yeah- I too have had the same problem and some video issues as well. I have purchased 2 "A" models (there's 8 grand) One original dvx (that totals about 12 grand) AND GUESS WHAT, FOLKS!? Panasonic ain't even interested in your problems. They got nothing but excuses how its their dealer's fault. And if you didn't buy from a so called "authorized dealer" then you are SOL! How do you like them apples, baby? I DARE someone(jan,are you out there?) to take some f***ing responsibility and make things right with the people who are making things oh so right with Panasonic'S STOCKHOLDERS. I lost a measley 1200.00 for a day shoot, and lost all my travel expenses to Morocco and prime footage because of this b.s. excusemaking. Random quality control- the dvx's number just came up. Yeah, and every Mercedes-Benz leaves the factory with brown tape all over it saying re-inspected by M.B. If I get some help with my problem, I'll take it all back-If not, e-mail me if you want a nice paperweight. >:(
 
Re: Audio Dropouts on DVX100A

I'm gonna reply to my own repy.
I have a brand new-in-the box dvx100a, bought from ProFeel, with USA warranty,etc., complete with all accessories, and complete with all the problems audio and video. I call Panny. Tell them my story. Panny say, "We ain't got time". I say, " you gots my money." Panny say, " Don't give rat ass." I say," you gots my money." Panny say, " dealer fault."
I say, " you gots my money." Panny say, " grey market." I say, " you gots my money." Panny say, " don't have time." I say, "you built it and you gots my money." Panny say, " go away." :( :'(
 
Re: Audio Dropouts on DVX100A

Wow, what a bummer. That's a terrible situation.

However, I gotta say that Panasonic is doing what they would have to do, regarding the "gray market" resellers. If you had bought from ProMax, or B&H, or any authorized Panasonic reseller, Panasonic could authorize an immediate replacement. But since you went with a gray-market seller, their hands are tied. They contractually can't execute a dealer-swap, etc., because the dealer you bought from is not a Panasonic dealer. So your beef is with your gray-market dealer, not Panasonic themselves. Panasonic may have no idea where that gray-market camera came from -- it may have "fallen off the back of a truck" for all they know, it could be used, it could be from an overseas division, but it wasn't bought from Panasonic US, because ProFeel's not an authorized dealer. So Panasonic may not even "gots your money", but ProFeel definitely does. ProFeel is who you need to go after.

I'm sure Panasonic would fix the unit under warranty (assuming your gray-market camera actually has a legitimate US warranty, but being gray market, that's no guarantee either), but that doesn't help you much -- it would mean being camera-less for however many weeks the repair would take.

I know it's not what you want to hear, and I know it leaves you high and dry. But Panasonic can only act within the bounds of the dealer network they have established. They have lots of contracts and billions of dollars tied up between them and their dealer network. If you stay in-network, they'll do everything possible to help. But if you "save a few bucks" by going with an unauthorized dealer, you forego that support network. Authorized dealers usually charge a little more, for good reasons. That higher price is basically an "insurance policy" against the exact type of circumstances you're encountering.

So, again, they'll fix it if it carries a valid US warranty, but if you want an exchange, you'll have to go back to your "unauthorized dealer", the ones who actually took your money and whose responsibility it is to make good on your situation.

Best of luck.
 
Re: Audio Dropouts on DVX100A

Yeah :( I know
what irks me is ProFeel told me they were an authorized dealer, and I paid what I could have paid at the "real" authorized dealers. My other two units came from a local authorized dealer, and I have supported and purchased thousands of dollars worth of Panasonic gear over the years. It's just the fact that authorized or unauthorized, Panasonic manufactures the pieces. If there are problems, and I sincerely believe there are; given the volume of complaints about similar problems, from many individuals, Panasonic should not try to sidestep the issue by playing the "authorized dealer" card. Perhaps not the best of analogies, but I bought my second Mercedes from an individual; with remaining warranty. My dealer treats my new and "used" one the same- MB built it, it is under warranty, and that is good enough.Period. I guarantee you if there is a defect or product recall, they won't slither from their responsibility. Panasonic should stand behind their product 100%-no questions asked. Don't pass off flaws and defects or poor quality control to ProFeel. Is there a secret counterfit Panasonic factory deep in the jungles of Peru? Are the villagers there making "unauthorized" dvx100a's in their crude sand molds? Are they fashioning parts and pieces from yucca palms and bailing wire? Oh, it just dawned on me- I think I got one of the rare dvx100M's. The "McGyver" model.
Panasonic has hit a home run with this camera-they should go to bat for their loyal customers, all the way, all the time. Full blast , no holds-barred customer satisfaction; so when Canon or Sony come out with the next big thing, everyone in the Panny camp is so f***ing happy, they could give a rat's ass. Confucious say, " today's happy owner of dvx100a becomes tomorrows' owner of sdx900 or varicam" ;)
 
Re: Audio Dropouts on DVX100A

Well, you do of course have some valid points... some division of Panasonic manufactured it, that's for sure. And the international nature of the situation doesn't necessarily change anything regarding who ultimately manufactured it, whether you bought a Malaysian or Peruvian or Korean or American version.

But, the point is, Panasonic will certainly fix it under warranty (won't they?) If there's a problem with the camera they will honor the warranty and fix it.

Had you bought it from an authorized dealer, they would have further options: they could have the dealer exchange the camera for a brand new one.

To take your Mercedes analogy a bit further, if you bought that Mercedes used from a private individual, and then took it to a Mercedes dealer (or Mercedes themselves) and said "there's something wrong with this, take it back and give me a new one", I don't think you'd get too far. Had you bought it directly from the dealer, they may give you some more leeway. But having bought it from who knows who, in who knows what condition, the Mercedes dealer is going to decline to exchange you to give you a new car.

And that's what Panasonic's doing. There's no paper trail, no evidence you bought it from a Panasonic dealer, so where did it come from? Was it a refurb? A store return? Stolen? Who knows? They don't know, and without that paper trail, they won't take it back. Panasonic sells to their authorized dealers, and only to their authorized dealers. If you bought it from a non-authorized dealer, the only thing we know for sure is that it didn't come from Panasonic USA. And that's why they're drawing the line on exchanges, etc.

But if it's within warranty period, I would expect them to still fix it under warranty for free.
 
Re: Audio Dropouts on DVX100A

Thanks Barry,
I understand your reasoning. Understand that my so called "authorized camera" is also experiencing the same problems. I have TWO 100A's. One, bought from a local dealer, and then the Profeel unit. I also have ONE original 100. ( Total three cameras) My problems are with BOTH the 100A's. I offered to send Panasonic the one so called "unauthorized" camera, invoice from Profeel, proof of payment, etc. I honestly thought they, ( if nothing else, out of curiosity ) would be interested in finding out the problems with this unit. I also thought that they would at least be somewhat sympathetic to someone who is buying and using their gear, schlepping across the globe, and losing THOUSANDS of dollars because of their defects. Not just the audio problems, but as mentioned, the overall picture quality is not up to par with my original 100. Forget about taking time to match settings, etc. IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN! You know what? Panasonic all but admitted that the "A" model WON'T MATCH the original version, but that two "A" models should look the same. Now here is the crux of my argument, and the basis for my "theory", which I am still gathering evidence for, and cannot emphatically state at this time, but you can read between the lines, I'm sure. I know I'm digressing form our original point, but the important thing is this: Panasonic knows they have problems with this A model, furthermore, if I may be so bold, Panasonic KNOWS the picture quality of this "new,improved' version is inferior, yes folks-inferior, to its predeccesor. I know the firestorm shall ensue. But I am slowly and methodically gathering my evidence, and I can tell you my good man, it ain't looking too good.They don't want to take it back, because when I demand that I want a 100A returned to me that looks as good as the original model, then they will have alot of explaining to do when they ship me back a plain 'ole 100. I know its getting ready to get hot in here. As mentioned, I know I may be off topic slightly, as relating to our discussion here, but I see your logic, and appreciate your insight. There is a shadowy truth that needs to be revealed, and somebody at big P don't want us to figure it out. **hear dark, moody synth strings... :-[
 
Re: Audio Dropouts on DVX100A

Sorry, to hear about your problems--what a pain. The authorized distribution network supports the folks doing service and support. The official US distributor tacks on some additional cost to support domestic sales and support. Unfortuantely, you didn't pay for a warranty. If Panasonic serviced gray cameras under warranty, their operation would fold quickly because the support $$ would dry up.

Your beef is *entirely* with ProFeel for misrepresenting themselves as an authorized deal. Well, maybe not entirely. You should have confirmed that they were an authorized dealer before purchasing. I've never bought a camera that didn't fall under the same policy--so this isn't exactly a dark conspiracy from Panasonic.

Take it in for service and consider the charges as a life lesson--we've all had the same at some time :-).
 
Re: Audio Dropouts on DVX100A

Thanks Barry and Barry for taking the time to reply.

I have a feeling that both Victor and I are harboring the same resentment towards Panasonic right now. (Part of me wants my PD150 back, haha)

Anyway, I was just wondering if you guys have had any experience with Panasonic Service Centers. I took my DVX100A into an authorized Panasonic Service Center near my work, since I couldn't get through to anyone at the Panasonic Facility in Hollywood. Have you guys had good experiences with these types of facilities? I'm sure they're qualified since they're listed on Panasonic's website, but I'm curious to what the process is for troubleshooting and fixing my camera. I'm just paranoid that I'll get it back and everything will *seem* fine until a few tapes later when the dropouts crop up again. I feel like I'll never be able to trust the audio portion of my camera again. I'm seriously considering returning to a PD150/170. And I just ordered my Chrosziel Mattebox last week! Grrrrr...

Kris
WCTV 56
 
Re: Audio Dropouts on DVX100A

I really don't think this is an isolated incident with Panasonic or the dvx. This is infact the first that I have heard of the problem, however if you look it up it is more related to the mini-dv format. If you go to the link posted at the top of this discussion there are people using two different sony cams (one being the pd150) that are having the same problem. Don't know what to tell you except that I have had my 100a since january and have now logged 105hrs and 27 mq tapes. I just cleaned my heads for the first time last weak as I noticed one "bad" frame that occured during a shoot. This was my first bad frame and I have never dropped any kind of audio. I believe this would be more related to tape stock than the actual camera. If you buy your tapes in bulk, and this happens on a couple of them, possible it is bad tape stock.
 
Re: Audio Dropouts on DVX100A

I haven't had any gear serviced by Panasonic yet, so I can't answer that.

Also, regarding the 100 vs. 100A in picture quality, I have only done one gig with the 100A so far. It was a 4-camera shoot, three 100's and one 100A. We were able to get the 100A to match perfectly with all three 100's. If you aren't able to do so, it sounds like you've got something wrong with your camera (which I think you already know, which is where a lot of your frustration stems from). Using identical settings, we got identical pictures, which was a little bit of a surprise to us considering Panasonic's new prism, etc. in the 100A. But it looked spot-identical. Yours should be able to match identically if you set identical settings across all cameras.
 
Re: Audio Dropouts on DVX100A

Barry,
You are right once again. You accurately identified the true source of my frustration. Single, solitary, source one. Please review posts over at screen grabs, "New Music Video". I am only getting more frustrated in here. I need a break. I guy came to my door today with a lawsuit. :)
 
Re: Audio Dropouts on DVX100A

And Bary S'
Yeah, ProFeel. I wonder how these guys get away with it; with the advertising, and logos, and ads showing Panasonic stuff all the time. Heck- why, you would think they were honest- to- goodness authorized dealers. Even the Beaver would know that. And gosh, with Panasonic just letting them do it, too. I heard of this company called McApple, or Apple or something. Wally's dad said that they do it different. Nobody can sell you stuff if it ain't legal and stuff. I think Wally's dad is pretty smart.
 
Re: Audio Dropouts on DVX100A

Y'know, you do have a good point there too. It should be more obvious who's an authorized dealer and who isn't.

I asked Panasonic if they could post a list of authorized dealers. They are reticent to, because they want people to buy from local resellers, not shop everyone against everyone else. They want the local reseller to get the business, because the local reseller is there to provide support.

So the only way you can find out if someone's an authorized reseller is to go to Panasonic's website and put in the reseller's zipcode (I tried EVS, and yep - they're authorized). But how is an end customer supposed to know that? I didn't know inoax or buydig or profeel weren't authorized resellers!

Seems like there should be an active campaign on Panasonic's part to promote some sort of specific "authorized reseller" logo, and that they should prosecute anyone who uses it without being an authorized reseller. The BBB does something like that for the use of their logo. Without something like that, it just leads to confusion.
 
Re: Audio Dropouts on DVX100A

I hate to say it but panny has a point. Some of the places out there strip the serials off the cameras. No telling what else they take off. There are a lot of scams out there on cameras, Panny can't be to blamed for it. I know if I built and designed the dvx I would not support one that someone took apart, shipped some drugs in it, ;D and then put it back together. Not saying thats what they did put who knows with gray market. :-/

Anyway, sorry that happened to you but I have no problems with audio and I am a audio stickler. I have to say the dvx100a has some damn good audio. Now when I listen in the phones I get scared because I hear all kinds of wierd noises, but it never shows up in the final capture, so I am very, very happy. :D
 
Re: Audio Dropouts on DVX100A

I bought two DVX100A's a few weeks ago in Hong Kong. I started getting the Audio Dropouts on one of the cameras, and then I really freaked out when I saw what was being posted about this problem (I thought my camera was as goos as a paperweight). But, yesterday I took it in to the Panasonic Service Center in Hong Kong, and the technician fixed the problem in less than a half an hour, right in front of my eyes. I was still hesitant after that, so I started shooting tests. 10 Tapes later, in all sorts of environments (interior, exterior, tripod, running, rain) and I haven't had a single dropout. This problem is fixable, so if you are having trouble with the warranty, bite the bullet and pay for a half an hour of a technicians time... and get back to shooting. Good luck.
 
Re: Audio Dropouts on DVX100A

paulelowey,

Are you the same guy I talk to at Man Shing? Because if you are, I am just curious what caused the dropouts. If you are not...well glad you got your problem fixed.
 
Re: Audio Dropouts on DVX100A

Wongwai

Yeah, that was me. I can't really tell you what the exact problem is due to I don't speak Chinese and the service techinian didn't speak much English. I can tell you what I saw him doing from over his shoulder though:
He recorded some video then played it back. No drop outs.
Then he opened the cassette holder, adjusted some tiny little point with a tiny screw driver; then recorded some video and played it back. No drop outs.
He repeated the process about 2 or 3 more time, each time with no dropouts, closed the camera back up, and was finished.

Since then I've rolled through numerous tapes to test the service, and I haven't had a problem... yet. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed! ;)
 
Re: Audio Dropouts on DVX100A

Here's the Contact Info for the Panasonic dealer in Hong Kong that arranged service for my audio dropouts.

Address:
14/F & 15/F, New East Ocean Centre,
9 Science Museum Road, Tsimshatsui East, Kowloon
Telephone:852 2733 3888
 
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