FS5: atoms Shogun and the Fs5 Question

H

hepler

Active member
I have a Fs5 and the shogun inferno, with the raw upgrade. I use the zacuto z-finder when it is on my shoulder. I have been shooting the raw out some of the time but I have found a really good look with the camera in sgamut3/cine, and the color in cine4 in 4k to go out the hdmi and record to the atomos and record in prores 422, 4k in either 24 or 30p. Really nice for interviews, no more sony color, perfect skin just a great look, easy to grade love it.
So the question I have is when it is on my shoulder, the viewfinder goes dark when I am not outputting raw, in order to record to the shogun. So can I just hit record on the shogun and not the camera? So then my z-finder doesn't go dark, will I get the 4k out the hdmi with out the camera in record mode?
When I record raw out it isn't a problem since both camera and atomos will record and not go dark, (however the internal recording is 1080 and the clips are darker and look like crap). But I don't really care when I am recording raw out.
But if I have the camera not outputting raw and just in 4k internal and hdmi out, I love the look of the prores 4k that I am getting out of the atamos. I just don't know if I am really getting 4k 422 if I don't hit record on the camera.
I use final cut and it reads the file as 4k 422 prores but I am not confident that it is just not reading the wrapper. Is there a way to see what the file really is and not just what final cut thinks it is?
Hope this makes sense.
Thanks
Scott
 
I believe you have to be recording on camera and cannot just record the "preview" signal from the atomos.
 
Supposedly, the HDMI output for UHD is 8-bit 4:2:2 so if that's the case then you should be getting that (with or without the RAW recording feature). The only thing to look for is if there is a specific option in the menu to change it to 4:2:2 (which there is on the Sony mirrorless cameras otherwise it is just 4:2:0).

With normal recording, I've never heard of actually having to record internally on a camera to be able to output a better color space/bits/HFRs (usually it's the opposite and internal recording is disabled to have better output specs).

As you mentioned, any software may be tricked by reading the 10-bit 4:2:2 Atomos ProRes files so you'll never really know (but we all never really know what engineering is taking place and we simply trust companies), and you just have to make sure it's set up correctly and the HDMI output is indeed 4:2:2 for UHD.

It's probably best to ask Sony to confirm.
 
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So I have been doing a bit of testing to figure this out, no official word back from sony, but with the camera in raw out mode, there is no difference in the files if I push record on the camera or just record on the shogun through SDI, which is what you have to use to record raw out. In UHD mode, not raw out, then it has to go out the HDMI, and again no difference if recording internally or not. Exact same file on the shogun.
I even tried to break up the image on both 4k and UHD, which happens easily if it is 420 UHD. So although I can't really know I am pretty sure it is 422 out the HDMI and I know it is 422 out the SDI.
So it helps me out to use the eyepiece and just record on the shogun and not loose the image.
Just a side note, I have used the Fs5 from day one and I have sometimes struggled to get the image I want, especially in UHD, but even the color in 1080 is not good in the internal recordings, I believe it is the codec that isn't the best and causes the most problems along with sony color. I often use a Fs7 and now the 7II weekly and that color and image is much much better, however with the shogun on the Fs5, I love this little camera again. The prores files that come out are soooo much better I can't tell you. I honestly like the files better than the Fs7II. It is amazing how much better that prores codec is.
 
I have been shooting ProRes for about 6 years now (across 12 different cameras, BMCC being the first) and there is nothing like it. I was an early adopter (beta testing consumer, ha) of the original Shogun and saw the benefits since day 1, especially in post...it's definitely amazing.

As mentioned above, there shouldn't be a difference in the HDMI (and SDI) output whether RAW is activated or not (besides of course the RAW output when engaged). The camera from the factory should always output 422 unless there is some quirky limitation like using both the HDMI & SDI at the same time, or dual-recording, or HFRs, etc. (usually noted in the manual).

The only other difference to consider is that if you're shooting 1080p via SDI/HDMI (don't remember if it's just one or both) then you're getting the 10-bit as well (8-bit for UHD via HDMI), so maybe that's something you're seeing too (especially in post) if you're shooting any HD.
 
I wish you would have told me about the prores years ago when I switched form Canon to Sony.
The combo Fs5 and the inferno is a bit weird, if you want 4k (UHD) 30p out and it isn't in the RAW out mode then you have to use the HDMI out, otherwise the shogun will only record 1080 over the SDI even if the camera is in 4k.
And I don't always want that RAW file.
You can't get 4k or UHD out the SDI unless it is in RAW out, don't know why. So in 4k internal and over the hdmi to the shogun, you still get the noise reduction but you don't get the sony color cast, and that is how I use it for run and gun stuff. sgamut3/cine and color mode cine4 recorded to prores 422 on the shogun. Life changing files from the Fs5.
In the difficult lighting stuff or I just want more I switch slog2, and to Raw out over SDI and record ProRes Raw 60p, nothing like it especially under 4k for the camera now.
 
There aren't many cameras in the world that can do regular 4K/UHD over SDI (no RAW output/hardware)...I can only think of a few Blackmagics and probably some stupid expensive studio/sports cameras.
 
+ 4K DCI in 12-Bit CinemaDNG
and 120fps 4K burst, 240fps 2K continuous,
and all my Canon L series glass is one stop brighter. Only thing a C300II has on this set up is autofocus.
 
Canon lovers will also always mention their color science too...but the C300 Mark II kind of sucks in 2018, especially for the price.

It's probably best to compare it to the C200, which has 12-bit RAW internal recording (10-bit in 60p), which is very useful to keep the package small and light even though Cinema RAW Light is wack (IMO), and of course the better AF and colors as mentioned.

I imagine 99% of sales for the FS5/RAW combo is for the 4K/120p bursts (that's what made me almost buy it a year or two ago, and nothing else).
 
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