Atomos Sumo SE

R

rob norton

Veteran
I'm in the market for a larger monitor and have always leant towards the sumo. I checked and saw (on B&H at least) that it's discontinued, replaced with an SE version.

SE stands for special edition, which is supposedly sharper and brighter, although both have a maximum brightness of 1200 cd/m[SUP]2[/SUP].

"maintains the same 4K recording, monitoring, and switching capabilities of its predecessor with a sharper and brighter display."

The display specs show more differences:

original
Panel TypeIPS-Type LCD
Display Size19.00" / 48.0 cm
Resolution1920 x 1080
Aspect Ratio16:9
TouchscreenYes
Maximum Brightness1200 cd/m[SUP]2[/SUP]
Bit Depth / Color Support8-Bit+FRC (1.07 Billion Colors)
Real-Time LUT MonitoringSDR

SE
Panel TypeQuantum Dot OLED
Display Size19.00" / 48.3 cm
Resolution1920 x 1080
Aspect Ratio16:9
TouchscreenYes
Maximum Brightness1200 cd/m[SUP]2[/SUP]
Bit Depth / Color Support10-Bit (1.07 Billion Colors)
HDR CompatibilityHybrid Log Gamma
Pixels Per Inch (ppi)120 ppi
Real-Time LUT MonitoringSDR, HDR
Image ControlsAnamorphic De-Squeeze, False Color,
Focus Peaking,
OSD Flip, Pixel Zoom, RGB Parade,
Vectorscope, Waveform, Zebra
This seems like a strange in between type product - no announcement, just a quiet update in the background. Also, no one wants a special edition, people want limited editions.

Does anything jump out at anyone that still might make the original sumo the better monitor?
 
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I'd get the new one for the simple fact it's newer and they will probably give it some nice updates over the next year or so. It's also OLED but not sure how much nicer (if at all) it looks over the older one. I think Charles is a big fan of the Sumo (the original).
 
I was looking at 15" - 20" field monitors at NAB and I spent a few minutes with the Sumo SE. Very impressive. I would have bought one that day if they had been in stock at B&H, but it was too new for them to be available, so I went in a different direction and bought something else. All I really wanted was a field monitor so the recorder capabilities would have been a nice bonus, but not necessary. My advice is to buy it and don't settle for the previous model. I can't recall all the differences between the two, but the woman in the booth knew her stuff and had me sold . . . If only they had one to sell.
 
Thanks Doug Jensen, that's an encouraging report. The 2022 electronics film equipment waiting game gets everyone. What did you go with instead?

Nick M, thanks - one of the dvx bots must've slid into Matt's DMs.
 
rob norton said:
Thanks Doug Jensen, that's an encouraging report. The 2022 electronics film equipment waiting game gets everyone. What did you go with instead?.
Click to expand...

You would have to ask. I'm almost embarrassed to say because the name is so ridiculous. I got a 15" Lilliput, okay? The first thing I did was put my own ID label over the name plate. If I hadn't seen it in person at NAB I never would have taken a chance on it, but it is proving to fit my needs perfectly.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...broadcast.html

It's a 12G 4K monitor with four SDI inputs and one HDMI -- all with loop through. It's got a v-mount bracket and runs at 35W so will run for hours on a battery. All metal construction but still very lightweight with a nice handle on top and rubber feet if you need to set it on a table. It's got built-in LUTs, zebras, etc.. It fits in a much smaller Pelican than the 17" Sony OLED I used to take on location. I just pull it out, drop it in a light stand, and flip the power switch. So nice and easy.

My only complaint is that the viewing angle is much narrower than I'm used to. You have be looking pretty much straight at the screen if you want to see the best image. I'm used to it now.

This is the mount I'm using. I was hesitant to spend that much for a mount, but I'm glad I did. So much easier to use than the Matthews mount on my Sony 17".
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...tor_mount.html

I've been using the monitor a lot this summer during workshops that I'm teaching and it is everything I hoped it would be. The students in the last class nicknamed it the Lily Pad. I'm also using it as my mobile grading monitor for Resolve.

The Sumo has a recorder, but I don't need a recorder and the lower power consumption and 15" size of the Lily Pad fit my needs better anyway. No regrets.
 
I'm honestly surprised they have refreshed the Sumo, I figured that model was a dinosaur against their Neon offering (which I now see has been trimmed back to only one size vs the three when they were first announced). I'm guessing Atomos has learned not to chase the high-end post market, they are pretty well landed in the indie/prosumer world for good I'd say.

A fan of the Sumo? Well, I do own a couple. The classic one for me makes a great director's monitor, especially on a smaller non-union situation where the director or script supervisor can record and playback to their heart's content. I've had a few really take to that capability. The relatively bright screen means it works outside especially with the sunshade or a solid behind the director. At the time I bought it, there really wasn't much out there in that size that was daylight viewable and certainly not with recording capability. I also have a Sumo 19M I picked up cheap that I mostly use as a monitor with my Ronin R2/Inertia Wheels setup (again, daylight viewable helpful, and much cheaper than a SmallHD 13").

That said: I have matte screen protectors on both of mine because the glossy screens are useless especially outside. These make an already slightly soft monitor even softer. The color accuracy...isn't. If I remember correctly, every time I've tried to calibrate it using the Atomos-prescribed setup it has failed. All that means is that I won't use it myself as a reference monitor, but it's plenty good enough for a director or to operate a remote head from. It's kind of big and heavy, and it has fans which make it tough to have right on a quiet set. And I don't use it battery powered too often, but it will suck them right down at full brightness while recording.

So am I a big fan? Not really. They fulfill their purpose of a larger sized screen and recording capability. Atomos has proven to be one of those companies that doesn't follow through on promised updates (or if they do, it's a lot longer than expected, like the synced four-feed recording capability that I think was close to 2 years after feature announcement). But I'll still take a look at this one when I have the chance.

Finally--touching the screen of an OLED makes my head kinda explode (if anyone touches my beloved and precious A250, they will feel my wrath).
 
Doug Jensen said:
You would have to ask. I'm almost embarrassed to say because the name is so ridiculous. I got a 15" Lilliput, okay? The first thing I did was put my own ID label over the name plate. If I hadn't seen it in person at NAB I never would have taken a chance on it, but it is proving to fit my needs perfectly.
Click to expand...

Lightweight, low power draw/good enough everything else, sounds like it's working well for you. The sumo is a funny name too though but I guess they named it because of the similarities to a sumo wrestler - powerful and capable, yet chunky, hungry, lower life expectancy (possibly).

CharlesPapert said:
I'm honestly surprised they have refreshed the Sumo, I figured that model was a dinosaur against their Neon offering (which I now see has been trimmed back to only one size vs the three when they were first announced). I'm guessing Atomos has learned not to chase the high-end post market, they are pretty well landed in the indie/prosumer world for good I'd say.

A fan of the Sumo? Well, I do own a couple. The classic one for me makes a great director's monitor, especially on a smaller non-union situation where the director or script supervisor can record and playback to their heart's content. I've had a few really take to that capability. The relatively bright screen means it works outside especially with the sunshade or a solid behind the director. At the time I bought it, there really wasn't much out there in that size that was daylight viewable and certainly not with recording capability. I also have a Sumo 19M I picked up cheap that I mostly use as a monitor with my Ronin R2/Inertia Wheels setup (again, daylight viewable helpful, and much cheaper than a SmallHD 13").

That said: I have matte screen protectors on both of mine because the glossy screens are useless especially outside. These make an already slightly soft monitor even softer. The color accuracy...isn't. If I remember correctly, every time I've tried to calibrate it using the Atomos-prescribed setup it has failed. All that means is that I won't use it myself as a reference monitor, but it's plenty good enough for a director or to operate a remote head from. It's kind of big and heavy, and it has fans which make it tough to have right on a quiet set. And I don't use it battery powered too often, but it will suck them right down at full brightness while recording.

So am I a big fan? Not really. They fulfill their purpose of a larger sized screen and recording capability. Atomos has proven to be one of those companies that doesn't follow through on promised updates (or if they do, it's a lot longer than expected, like the synced four-feed recording capability that I think was close to 2 years after feature announcement). But I'll still take a look at this one when I have the chance.

Finally--touching the screen of an OLED makes my head kinda explode (if anyone touches my beloved and precious A250, they will feel my wrath).
Click to expand...

It looks like the neon line has done away with the 31"/55" versions, with the 17" and 24" remaining. The 17" neon and SE sumo are pretty close in price (in Australia that gap is closed even more), with the neon receiving some pretty mediocre reviews, so maybe that gives SE the edge.

I could live with any of the quirks you mention, except I think I'd rather be powering with batteries as standard. Primarily because of the nature of the locations, where I'm usually running around an office, industrial area, random buildings etc. But also I don't always working with people used to video production and people crowd around monitors much more than the camera, audio, or lighting equipment.

I hadn't even considered any smallhd products, but their Cine 13" looks pretty good, despite no recording. I think rental add-ons would eventually pay it off but it's still expensive. It should only need 3 batteries vs. around 6 (150Wh) for a full day powering the Sumo SE, which would make the price difference smaller because I don't have that many batteries yet anyway. I know there are existing, less expensive options from the company, but it's a bit of a mental hurdle purchasing older small "discontinued" hd products.

Another option is to go with a 19" monitor when appropriate then look to add another 7" monitor for easier battery-powered field use, where the smaller screen is more acceptable given the circumstances. Plus this combo would still come out cheaper than a smallhd cine 18".

To complicate things further, I'm waiting on a 16" MBP M1. Surely this could be used indoors as a decent production monitor, for example using Resolve Live?!
 
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Quantum Dot and OLED are two different technologies and display techs. It can’t be both. I’m gonna say the Sumo SE is QLED(quantum dot). Professional OLED displays are ridiculously expensive, now. When I thought I was going to have to replace my 1741 last year, the least expensive new professional OLED I could find was over $11,000.

And I’m with Charles. Don’t touch the screen on my Sony OLED(1741), or any of my monitors(except, well, the touchscreens…)
 
Rob, what I think a lot of people forget to do with the Sumo (I know I'm the only one that ever does it on my sets) is to bring the brightness down when you come back indoors, which will improve battery life. To match my 25" OLED I have the backlight on the Sumo set around 15. On my Shogun 7 I have to bring it down to single digits!
 
Doug Jensen said:
You would have to ask. I'm almost embarrassed to say because the name is so ridiculous. I got a 15" Lilliput, okay? The first thing I did was put my own ID label over the name plate.
Click to expand...

Lilliput is one of the less weird names out there--my personal (opposite of) favorite is Feelworld, which is downright creepy. Runners up: Andycine, which to me is like something a 7 yr old playing pretend with a cardboard camera would write on his monitor, Neewer (why stop at two E's? Just commit and call it Neeeewer), and possibly Portkeys, which isn't too bad but does beg the question...what does it mean!?
 
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Ha, ha. Yeah, now that you mention it maybe it is relatively harmless name in comparison. I own the domain ShotWatcher so maybe I'll put that on a nameplate and cover Liiliput on the monitor.
 
CharlesPapert said:
Rob, what I think a lot of people forget to do with the Sumo (I know I'm the only one that ever does it on my sets) is to bring the brightness down when you come back indoors, which will improve battery life. To match my 25" OLED I have the backlight on the Sumo set around 15. On my Shogun 7 I have to bring it down to single digits!
Click to expand...

That's a good tip, you're probably preserving your eyes too!

The current plan is to wait for the MBP to check if it's possible to set up with a wireless receiver, then see how cumbersome it'd be with all of the required hardware. Something like an inovativ digiplate pro could be a good solution. If it doesn't require too much babying, it seems like a shame to not take advantage of really long battery life and a great looking screen on the latest MBPs.

Otherwise I think the atomos SE makes the most sense. Failing that I can always pick up a Doug Jensen ShotWatcher Pro.
 
Rob, feels more like an iPad Pro implementation than MBP no? The keyboard feels like it would just make it pretty clunky.

Seems like it would be easy enough to test out now, using an HDMI capture device. I suspect the latency would make it pretty undesirable to use as a primary monitor especially when dialogue is concerned. Also the various processing and Quicktime messing around with the values as it does, potentially you'd have to do put a LUT box inline to work around that. urgggh
 
Doug Jensen said:
Ha, ha. Yeah, now that you mention it maybe it is relatively harmless name in comparison. I own the domain ShotWatcher so maybe I'll put that on a nameplate and cover Liiliput on the monitor.
Click to expand...

Back in the 90's I had an early handheld LCD monitor, a Sony that was sort of prosumer (had a tuner). I used it with the various video transmitters of the day which were all pretty naughty as they hopped onto broadcast bands. As I'm sure Doug and others shooting back then recall, at that time Hoodmans were made with a diagonal pitch as seen below, which honestly worked a lot better than the straight hoods you see today where you get a reflection of your own face. But you couldn't use those on LCD's then because the viewing angle on those panels was so limited in the vertical axis you had to look at them straight on. I made up a crazy version of a slanted hood with a very shallow angle that was probably 18" long (attached to a 5" monitor!). Used to bring it up to the Steadicam workshops so I wouldn't have to follow behind the students and look over their shoulder. One of the students dubbed it the FishFinder, and the name stuck so I put that on the side. I think as a brand name, FishFinder is to ShotWatcher what Feelworld is to Lilliput...!

I still use one of my old Hoodmans made for those 8020 Trinitrons on a 9" Marshall director's monitor for exteriors. It gets some funny looks from people but it fits perfectly and works so much better still (since LCD's don't have that limited viewing axis issue any more). I asked the Hoodman folks at a trade show why they don't bring back the diagonal hoods and they said no-one would understand the purpose at this point, even though they work better and of course, daylight viewable monitors are becoming more common.

Click image for larger version Name: chupap-monitor-3.jpg Views: 0 Size: 46.0 KB ID: 5692119
 
ShotWatcher was a real product that I used to manufacturer and sell for transmitting SD video from Betacams to handheld Sony Watchmans. Worked great and sold a ton of them, but technically the UHF frequency was reserved for "hobby" use only. So,one day I got a letter from the FCC . . . and that was the end of that. Fortunately they just told me to shut it down and they didn't care about any past transgressions. I accepted that offer and moved on.
 
Oh nice! I had a series of UHF band SD transmitters back in the day. The one that scares me to think about put out a whopping 3 watts, I flew it on my Steadicam for a number of years--I wonder what that sucker did to my DNA. The one I used the most was the Modulus 3000 that was a real industry standard, hard to know how they went as long as they did without a similar smackdown from the FCC.
 
Yeah, about the time I got smacked down all the others disappeared too so I didn't take it personally. The thing that bugged me was the FCC saying that it was for "hobby" use only. Screw the hobbyists, we've got important work to get done!! What the hell is a hobbyist going to do with it anyway?
 
CharlesPapert said:
Rob, feels more like an iPad Pro implementation than MBP no? The keyboard feels like it would just make it pretty clunky.

Seems like it would be easy enough to test out now, using an HDMI capture device. I suspect the latency would make it pretty undesirable to use as a primary monitor especially when dialogue is concerned. Also the various processing and Quicktime messing around with the values as it does, potentially you'd have to do put a LUT box inline to work around that. urgggh
Click to expand...

I saw this video and started getting excited:


(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EumC4F6jHk&t=118s)

It's tough to see the exact latency but there's a quick wide shot of the set up at 02:13. Do you think it's that bad?

If going through resolve, it seems like the more powerful device would help with any heavy lifting running software?

Video signal wise, I think the only extra hardware needed would be a BM UltraStudio Recorder 3G and an appropriate cable going into the MBP's Thunderbolt 4.

I wouldn't even entertain the idea unless adding a few pieces to make it more production-ready. The receiver could maybe be mounted underneath the plate (in theory), while the BM USR3G looks like it'd be pretty easy to place anywhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8qWnmKBA_4

plate1.jpgplate2.jpg

I'm against any cobbled together solutions where it ends up making things more difficult/frustrating. I don't have my heart set on using the MBP, but it looks like there's a chance it'd be a decent enough set up.
 
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