Atomos Sumo. Any good?

E

EspenGlomsvoll

Member
Anybody in here who has any experience with the Atomos Sumo. Can you adjust the screen (colors and so on)? Is the image sharp? Any colorist or focus pullers in here who is familiar with this monitor?
Thanx!
Best from
Espen
 
You can't adjust the screen colors. It doesn't look as sharp as the newer OLED monitors. It is exactly the same as the shogun, just larger. If you've used a Shogun, you know what you are getting. I've seen focus pullers using a Shogun, so I guess you can make anything work. I have a completely different monitor that I use when I want the client to see accurate colors, so I would not use it if I was a colorist.
 
I think it is a great client on set monitor. Client can record and watch playback while you reposition the camera or send a proxy file quickly to thier boss (via resolve and laptop so not that quick). ALso they can peddly though a load of LUTs that you might have loaded to be inspired by different looks.

Generally keeps client away from you and your kit :)

But I dont think it is much good for colour grading or focus pulling.

My atomos (shogun) just gets a bit flickerish when the camera is in motion making focus pullung a bit of a challenge

edit... but this flicker is something I need to check. I think I was on 50p S+Q with the FS7 via my Connex. Such a combo adds a lot of extra bits to the pipeline so blaming the monitor might be unfair.
 
Sadly, the Atomos compatible X-rite calibration system that is available for the Shogun/Ninja line has not been activated on the Sumo yet. This is a major disappointment considering the unit has been out for close to a year and a half, so it would be fair to wonder if it will ever be released considering that the company is clearly focusing their efforts on products relating to their 5" monitor line.

That said, I think as Sam said, it makes a great director's monitor due to size, brightness and recording capability, and that is how I use it.
 
This is great info guys! I was hoping to use this monitor for more than a client monitor/recorder. But if you cant calibrat it with the X-rite, manual adjust the colors and its just ok sharp... Then maby I will look for something else for colorgrading and focus. Gues I was hoping for a monitor that had it all.
 
Update: just learned yesterday that the latest version of Atomos Calibrator software (2.0.21) is finally compatible with the Sumo 19. Was able to calibrate my Sumo 19 for the first time.
 
CharlesPapert said:
Update: just learned yesterday that the latest version of Atomos Calibrator software (2.0.21) is finally compatible with the Sumo 19. Was able to calibrate my Sumo 19 for the first time.
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Great news. I too have been sort of on the fence about it but it has so many handy features for an on set/client monitor.
 
I didn't take the time to set it up post-calibration next to my A250 reference monitor, but honestly I will never use it as a true reference. It does make a fantastic on-set director monitor in my opinion--high brightness for exteriors, and the ability to record has been great for non-union jobs without a playback operator. On my last job I showed the script supervisor how to record and playback and a few hours later I noticed she was recording everything just in case. I feed it a quad signal from my cart for multiple cameras--with the multiple recording capability in place I may think about adding receivers for each camera so they can do their own switching from full screen to quad...$$$ though!
 
a long while ago, I talked to TV logic about being able to record for playback, and they said they are moving in that direction. So, might be able to get the record and playback, as well as more reliable image quality going forward.
 
James0b57 said:
a long while ago, I talked to TV logic about being able to record for playback, and they said they are moving in that direction. So, might be able to get the record and playback, as well as more reliable image quality going forward.
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Well, Atomos have their Neon line which according to specs should be far more impressive than the Sumo in image quality. I've not heard much about them in terms of real-world reviews. I think they have the same problem as Blackmagic in terms of their reputation as "prosumer" level products breaking into the higher end market (and a similarly bad track record of long delays with promised upgrades). Once Sound Devices stopped making the Pix line, it just left Atomos and Convergent Design, so there is surely room for more monitor/recorders (a little surprised SmallHD hasn't joined the fray, with the resources of Vitec behind them).

I was reminiscing with a friend recently and we reminded each other that when TV Logic first emerged in the film industry probably around 20 years ago, their early onboard LCD monitors came in incredibly crude unanodized aluminum housings and were considered the cheapo/low rent end of the spectrum. Of course the name is so familiar now, but at the time it seem kind of funny--TV Logic?! I'll have to see if I can find one in any of my set photos from that era to post.
 
SPECS!??!??!?!?!??!?!"?!"?!?!?!

Ultimately, I trust TV Logic over Atmos,, a dn hell, even over smallHD.

Who still goes by specs? That is what is wrong with the current industry, it is all specs and no standards. Hopefully we'll get to better standards soon. HDR 8K looks like a good spot to settle on some standards. (even if movies are still 4K, at least our screens can have the option of 8k, and content and cameras across the board can become more standardized.)
 
James0b57 said:
SPECS!??!??!?!?!??!?!"?!"?!?!?!
Who still goes by specs? That is what is wrong with the current industry, it is all specs and no standards.
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That's been going on forever, especially on the consumer side of things. Nothing new there. Message boards have long been the home of "pixel peepers" and the equivalent!

That all said, I saw the Neon line in action at Cinegear last year, and the displays looked impressive. When I said "specs" I probably should have said "they look good on paper" which also includes sniffing at them at trade shows, as far as I'm concerned. The real deal is hearing from post professionals and DIT's who have compared them to existing displays and can talk at length A/about their pros and cons. Beyond image quality, I'd want to get some hands-on time with them, check out the UI, see how they would fare in a production environment.
 
BTW James, I feel obliged to tease you for the fact that a scant six minutes prior to announcing "who still goes by specs?" you had posted in another thread "I can't believe the f'ing Alexa has held the specs game for so long. Design and character is one thing, but specs is another. " Live bye the spec, die by the spec?!
 
CharlesPapert said:
BTW James, I feel obliged to tease you for the fact that a scant six minutes prior to announcing "who still goes by specs?" you had posted in another thread "I can't believe the f'ing Alexa has held the specs game for so long. Design and character is one thing, but specs is another. " Live bye the spec, die by the spec?!
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Both comments were meant in humour. And yes, both of my comments are wrong.

EDIT: Although, the little adage about "no standards" is something I actually do feel a little bit strongly about. but the rest was hyperbole and not intended to be taken seriously. I know writing is difficult to read sarcasm, but I tried to use the excessive "???!??!?!!" to denote being silly.

I haven't seen Atmos deliver on their specs in many meaningful ways in regards to accurate monitoring. TV logic claims to be better, and I tend to agree. Atmos and Osee chase specs pretty hard core, but rarely have the QC to make those specs work. So they are good, and incredibly cheap. They even have scopes and waveforms. So, at the end of the day,I. appreciate what they do, but ultimately don't trust the image I see on screen. Maybe one day. But that is all I meant in my hyperbole. We keep having all these specs and rarely getting improved standards. Since standards are obviously more cost prohibitive and don't sell.

As for the Arri Alexa specs comment, I own and enjoy a Red Gemini, which out specs the Alexa in a few areas. Doesn't mean is is a better camera. The Sony F55 out specs the Sony F35 in everyday pretty much, but there are aspects of the image quality that I prefer on the F35. I feel, when cheap cameras out spec the Alexa, it still won't result in better image quality. I think there is something to design that goes beyond specs.

But yeah, at the end of the day, I totally understand you teasing me, as I was pretty much inviting it, and totally deserve it.
 
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The only specs I really care about are the ones on the end of my nose so I can read the damn laptop...sigh.

Hey so on the monitor accuracy thing--while the Sumo is not great (but not quite as bad as some have made it out to be), I've found the Inferno to be close enough to my 24" reference monitor that I've used in scenarios where I can't fit the bigger one, or as an onboard when I have to operate as well as shoot. Prior to that I had a SmallHD DP7 but when I rented a Shogun for a job I quickly discovered the image was more color accurate. For what it's worth.
 
CharlesPapert said:
while the Sumo is not great (but not quite as bad as some have made it out to be), I've found the Inferno to be close enough to my 24" reference monitor that I've used in scenarios where I can't fit the bigger one,
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very interesting. will keep that in mind. thank you.

I was doing a bunch of car stuff, and definitely looking at low cost options that are both accurate and do screen recording. It is nice when each person has their own recorded stream and can selectively do playback at anytime without interfering with others.
 
James0b57 said:
I was doing a bunch of car stuff, and definitely looking at low cost options that are both accurate and do screen recording. It is nice when each person has their own recorded stream and can selectively do playback at anytime without interfering with others.
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Yep. I used that setup (here with a Flame) in a pass van a couple years back.
IMG_6310.jpg
 
CharlesPapert said:
Yep. I used that setup (here with a Flame) in a pass van a couple years back.
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I'm a fan of the Convergent Design 7Q. Mostly because it's OLED screen is way better for judging critical work and for years it was the only recording on-set monitor that could be calibrated.

On my last show we'd occasionally use an Atomos on the third camera and it was so annoying. The screen wildly fluctuated in terms of look compared to the 7q's and often seemed to "crash", where you'd have to power cycle the unit to see an image properly. Often was slow to switch between playback and record to, compared to the 7Q.

7Q is painful too if you loose power unexpectedly. If you have a lot of clips it wants to re-build the disk structure when you turn it on and if you have a few days of clips in there that can take an agonising number of mins before it's ready to record again. I don't use it, but in theory the 7Q could also record more than one input and does picture in picture. And these days they're quite cheap.

The 7Q's have been my go-to for many years. I keep looking to replace them but honestly, nothing with as good a screen for critical work has been done yet. Even the so-called HDR ones actually don't have a good image. The blacks can't match the OLED of the 7Q.

I'm hoping the new SmallHD Cine and Vision series I saw at BSC might be good enough as a monitor, but they still don't have a recording function. Also looked at the Transvideo and it wasn't all that great either (but does record)

JB

3up.jpg
 
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The Shogun Flame you've got there is quite old at this point. The current 7 is a lot better, including the new style OS.

The only thing I hate is how the screen looks in low light in HDR. Looks like it fogged up. Changing to Rec709 or a lut for monitoring gets rid of it though.
 
OliverM said:
The Shogun Flame you've got there is quite old at this point. The current 7 is a lot better, including the new style OS.
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It's not as old as the 7Q's are.

I've seen the current Atomos kit, and it's really not up to those monitors you see in that image which have to be pushing 5 years old and still working well. Obviously they aren't HDR or 4K. I never expected to have them in use for so long, but there's nothing still that does the same thing and makes such as nice picture in my view. I just wish they were 13"

JB
 
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