EVA1: Atomos Ninja V - RAW via HDMI?

S

Seanik

Well-known member
Ok, I'll bite... are there any technical limitations that would prevent RAW output via HDMI from being implemented on the EVA1 at some point? Is it possibly something we could add to a future firmware wishlist?

Atomos Ninja V promises a 5" RAW recorder/monitor, but no SDI input :(
 
Panasonic is part of the HDMI consortium. This organization sets the standard for HDMI signals so that devices can talk to one another properly. RAW is not part of the spec, so there for it will not be output over HDMI.
 
Mitch Gross said:
Panasonic is part of the HDMI consortium. This organization sets the standard for HDMI signals so that devices can talk to one another properly. RAW is not part of the spec, so there for it will not be output over HDMI.
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I don't see any technical problems, transporting raw requires only one 12 or 14 bit channel for each photosite and some global meta-data describing the sensor characteristics.
One could conceivably even carry 14 bit or higher data multiplexed over the three RGB lower bit channels.
 
One world assume that Jeromy of Atomos (sounds like a Game of Thrones character!) knows it’s technically possible or it would be very weird to make such a statement/request. Maybe it’s in Atomos interest to be able to accept raw via HDMI because it’s hard to fit enough inputs on smaller devices... However, for the most part, it sounds like it’s not in the interest of the major camera manufacturer’s interest. They like to protect their more expensive cameras. What if every €2000 mirror less had raw output? Then less people would likely pay for €6000 cameras... It will likely come to that eventually though, just as raw for still hoots now is standard, but I’m sure they want to delay it as long as possible ;)
 
So, the only hope for an EVA1 + Ninja V (RAW) pairing lies in the possibility that an SDI input may someday be available as an expansion module on the Ninja. To date, I've only seen this idea posed by blog writers and commenters. The Atomos rep only gives examples of using the expansion port for wireless transmission, which is making me wonder if it will only support outputs, perhaps?

So frustrating that a 5" RAW recorder finally emerges and the only guidance regarding connectivity is "lobby your camera manufacturer!"
 
The guy that KNOWS says that RAW is not part of the spec and says "it ain't happening" and still people say "well, it's should be technically possible" and "go to the group in-charge of setting the specs on this consumer interface and ask them to make this feature that a few pro's want and is only useful to a few pro's who want it". "How is this gonna help us sale more Blu-ray players or TV's?" "It's not." "Okay, request denied. Let's move on."

Guys, I'm not trying to be rude, but seriously. HDMI was designed for consumesr to hook up their DVD players to their TV's at home and make sure no-one was copying the content. They don't care about what professionals are doing with it in a professional environment. The only reason we see it on pro gear(which we shouldn't) is because of the dslr revolution and some people needed to see images on monitors. So then there were monitors with HDMI. Then someone decided to start putting it on highe-end cameras, too, because it's on monitors... I know it's not going away, but HDMI should not be in a professional environment, especially in the field.
 
raw over HDMI is not just something somebody can flip a switch to support. There is going to be a rather significant undertaking for somebody to work with Atomos to make this happen. If it is even possible it is not something that we will see anytime soon. I would expect at least a year before somebody pulls it off and tests it. So even if it were possible all of you may be waiting a long time to see it become a reality so you might as well look for some alternative options. If a 5" recorder vs a 7" recorder really a make it or break it thing when shooting raw? Are some of you actually considering shooting raw for run&gun? Thats interesting.
 
Thomas Smet said:
If a 5" recorder vs a 7" recorder really a make it or break it thing when shooting raw? Are some of you actually considering shooting raw for run&gun? Thats interesting.
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It might be, actually. Mounting a 7" Inferno with batteries on a small lightweight EVA1 setup has always seemed a bit ridulous to me. It would be an investment for those exceedingly rare occasions when a client isn't trying to jam 100 different things/locations into a single shoot day. If all I ever had to shoot was talking heads, then ok, sure.

The reality for me (and I suspect many others) is that my setup doesn't dictate the situation... the situation dictates the setup. I may go from a sit down interview to a demo or walk and talk to broll spray to a ride along in the span of 45 min. I'll have at least a day (usually more) for post.

So, why not RAW for run and gun? The time crunch is mostly on the production side of things. I wouldn't consider RAW for a quick turn, but why not make it more available or more useful in acquisition? Aren't we all just trying to make our gear sing?
 
With respect to HDMI RAW output though, I agree that it is a strange thing to wonder about (me thinks Atomos has given some manufacturer a head start on this). Hopefully, someone else (CD?) will want to disrupt this bizarre strategy of asking for users to rise up against their camera manufacturer and give us a 5" with SDI inputs.
 
Run&Gun said:
The guy that KNOWS says that RAW is not part of the spec and says "it ain't happening" and still people say "well, it's should be technically possible"
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Well, I know this is a EVA1/Panda thread, but there could be other companies that might do it...

If it happens, I very much doubt it will for any current camera and will be something that manufacturer implements as they design the camera... hope to be wrong though!

Just as raw now is more or less standard on every dslr/mirrorless still camera, I expect (ProRes) raw will be standard on all cameras that shoot video in just a couple of years...
 
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