Atomos and FCP support ProRes RAW for EVA1 and VariCam LT - press release

B

Barry_Green

Moderator
Panasonic press release follows:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

New ProRes RAW Recording Codecs Support RAW Recording in Panasonic AU-EVA1 and VariCam LT Cameras

NEWARK, NJ (April 5, 2018) -- Panasonic announced today that the AU-EVA1 Compact S35 and the VariCam LT cinema cameras will have support for their RAW data outputs in the new ProRes RAW recording codecs. Native
support for ProRes RAW has been introduced in the latest edition of Final Cut Pro X, and Atomos has announced that its Shogun Inferno and Sumo monitor/recorders will record in the new format. In addition to internal recording formats,
the EVA1 and VariCam LT can output RAW data for the greatest flexibility in post image adjustment.

“ProRes RAW unleashes the potential of our VariCam LT and AU-EVA1 cinema cameras,” said Mitch Gross, Cinema Product Manager, Panasonic System Solutions Company of North America (PSSNA). “Panasonic likes to provide
choices to video professionals. Both the EVA1 and the VariCam LT shoot at multiple resolutions and variable frame rates, and now our RAW output can be captured in a format that’s easy to use. Whether it’s 5.7K resolution or 240fps,
our RAW is rich in data but has required a commitment of time and memory space for filmmakers to process and store. Working closely with Panasonic, Atomos enabled ProRes RAW in its recorders, allowing an easy, high quality
and complete RAW workflow so professionals can enjoy the powerful capabilities our cameras have to offer.”

With the new EVA2.0 firmware, the EVA1 can output 10-bit Log-encoded RAW data in 5.7K up to 30fps, 4K up to 60fps, and 2K up to 240fps. From the VariCam LT, the Atomos recorders can capture RAW data in 4K up to 60fps and
2K up to 240fps. There are two variable bitrate levels of ProRes RAW being introduced. ProRes RAW HQ and ProRes RAW record at similar data rates as their ProRes video counterparts. This efficiency allows RAW data to be
stored in similar memory space as common video files, and Final Cut Pro X can edit and color natively in RAW on a MacBook Pro. ProRes RAW files will also output from Final Cut Pro X to video finishing formats faster than other
RAW formats. And Final Cut Pro X now includes increased color correction controls plus support for 3D-LUTs such as Panasonic’s V-Log-to-709 image transform, included in the program.

“Panasonic, Atomos and Apple have combined to deliver an astonishing set of features for end-to-end RAW production – 5.7K30p, 4K60p, 2K240p in 10-bit V-Log recorded on SATA SSDs in ProRes RAW on our Shogun Inferno
or Sumo 19,” said Jeromy Young, CEO of Atomos. “We primarily used the EVA1 for ProRes RAW launch testing - it’s the best RAW solution for the price point on the market today.”

Today, Atomos has released the firmware to support EVA1 RAW and VariCam LT RAW to ProRes RAW recording in 4K and 2K resolutions, with 5.7K support scheduled for a May release. Final Cut Pro X with ProRes RAW support is
slated to be available for download on Monday, April 9th. The EVA 2.0 firmware with RAW output and VariCam LT v6.0 firmware are available for download now.
 
From the looks of it the 5.7K Raw out of the EVA1 is ProRes RAW only - base d on Atomos' specs via their website
 
The output is uncompressed raw encoded as 10-bit log. The Atomos converts the raw sensor data to the ProRes raw format. It is possible that other manufacturers will release recorders that record the raw signal as-is.
 
The shogun inferno can record 4K raw out from the LT and will be able to record 4K Prores raw. I am curious as to weather this will be the same for the EVA1 as well. i.e. record the raw out uncompressed. Any idea on that Barry?
 
I wonder if it would be possible to make the Varicam LT record ProRes raw internally in 4K. That would be great.
 
what format does EVA1 RAW use for PC?

I can edit ProRes on PC, but can't export via ProRes... is this the same? Will PC users be able to record ProRes RAW and edit in Premiere, exporting as standard h.264/h.265 MP4? Or Mac only?
 
what format does EVA1 RAW use for PC?
Click to expand...
The EVA1 doesn't use any format for its raw. It's a raw signal. It is up to the third-party recorder to establish a file format. Atomos has chosen ProRes Raw. It's entirely possible that other manufacturers, like perhaps Convergent Design or Sound Devices, might choose to implement a different raw recording format. They could choose to record the raw signal as Cinema DNG, or, heck, if they wanted to they could probably record it as RedCode raw. Really, there's no way to know what the recorder manufacturers will do, until they announce what they're doing.


I guess we'll find out next week what the NLE manufacturers have to say about their support for ProRes Raw. As of right now, this press release represents everything that I know about the situation. Atomos will support it, by converting the raw output signal into ProRes Raw, and FCP will support editing of those files natively. I haven't heard from any other NLE makers as to what their plans are for support, but we should know pretty much everything by Monday.
 
I'm trying to understand what is the difference between the Prores format that is recorded internally in the LT and the one Atomos provides through its monitors. The camera also converts its own RAW data into Prores.
What we need is a new, better alternative to the 4:2:2 codec inside the camera. Either the 4:4:4 codec that the Varicam has or a 4:4:4:4 version of Prores.
We would really love new codecs inside the camera.
Having a big monitor attached to the camera is not always practical.
 
A 4:4:4 codec would be a waste. A single-sensor Bayer camera cannot generate 4:4:4 data (unless you're downconverting 4K to 2K or UHD to HD; in that case, yes, 4:4:4 would be utilizable).
 
RayZan said:
I'm trying to understand what is the difference between the Prores format that is recorded internally in the LT and the one Atomos provides through its monitors. The camera also converts its own RAW data into Prores.
What we need is a new, better alternative to the 4:2:2 codec inside the camera. Either the 4:4:4 codec that the Varicam has or a 4:4:4:4 version of Prores.
We would really love new codecs inside the camera.
Having a big monitor attached to the camera is not always practical.
Click to expand...

Normal ProRes? There is no difference. what we are talking about here is the brand new ProRes raw format. This new format records raw similar to cDNG or RED raw formats. Its raw data directly from the camera sensor and you can do in post with it whatever you want. Convert to 4:4:4, 4:2:2, 4:2:0, RGB or anything else you want.

Any 4:4:4 recorded format has baked in processing that you can never undo. Raw is almost always better except for performance and now ProRes raw may have solved that as well.
 
What a joke. We wait half a year until the promised 5.7K raw comes, only to learn that we have a brand-new format called ProRes RAW that is supported by the Macs and FCP X only at the moment! So maybe we will see that ProRes RAW is supported sometime in the future in Windows based NLEs too, maybe Windows User have to switch to other tools, maybe we have to wait another half year only?

ProRes RAW is great for Mac users I am sure, and maybe in the future for all of us. But for now? Maybe Resolve 15 will make my day, Panasonic has failed to do so for sure.
 
wschmid said:
What a joke. We wait half a year until the promised 5.7K raw comes, only to learn that we have a brand-new format called ProRes RAW that is supported by the Macs and FCP X only at the moment! So maybe we will see that ProRes RAW is supported sometime in the future in Windows based NLEs too, maybe Windows User have to switch to other tools, maybe we have to wait another half year only?

ProRes RAW is great for Mac users I am sure, and maybe in the future for all of us. But for now? Maybe Resolve 15 will make my day, Panasonic has failed to do so for sure.
Click to expand...

Why does Panasonic get the blame for this? Panasonic provides an uncompressed raw signal from the camera. It is up to the manufacturers to figure out ho to take that data and record it. Panasonic already did their part.

Lets get this straight. Panasonic didn't create ProRes raw nor do they record it in camera. It is the Atomos that takes the raw data and converts it to ProRes raw so it can record it to a useful format. If you can find another recorder that can take that raw signal and record it to cDNG or some other raw format you are more than welcome to ignore ProRes raw entirely.

Atomos wanted a solution to capture a raw format that performs well and is as easy to record and work with in post as a regular ProRes format. Apple took up the challenge when nobody else would and created likely the best raw workflow the world has ever seen. Just because everybody else got caught with their pants down doesn't mean Apple did something evil. Apple has the infrastructure and platform to make this level of raw processing a reality. Apple finally stepped up their game and catered to the high end market. I think they deserve props for that.

I understand PC users may be fearful of a new workflow that may not work for them but since when is it a rule that every workflow has to cater to every platform? In this field the cameras and formats should always come first. The computer is just the tool to handle the vision of what the cameras and format allow us to capture. I follow the format that provides the best results and not the computer itself to save a few bucks.

Nobody is forcing you to use ProRes raw. It is an external option on a camera that already provides a stunning high quality internal recording method. This is just one single solution to a raw workflow. Maybe other recorders will provide other options but don't hate on Apple for using their platform to create an optimized workflow. Thats the entire point of the Apple system and their strongest benefit. ProRes would kind of suck like other formats if they focused on cross platform support. As a Mac user I'm glad they focus their resources on making ProRes perform better on Macs instead of wasting time on a platform they don't gain any revenue from.

AVID or Adobe are more than welcome to attempt to create an alternative to ProRes raw but I wish them luck attempting to achieve the same level of performance. I'm sure eventually somebody else will create an alternative. I'm sure AVID will be the first to do so assuming they are still in business. AVID codecs however don't exactly have a track record of stunning performance. DnXHQ only got decent once Adobe added their own native support for the format. Is AVID going to focus their resources on working with Adobe to make a DNx raw work as well as ProRes raw? I doubt it but I will be very happy to be proven wrong. Maybe BMD will step up to the challenge and create their own raw format to compete with ProRes raw. Then we are once again back to a proprietary format. Thing about open source is I doubt they will ever achieve the performance Apple can. Especially for a cross platform format. Its one thing to have a codec to read and write a file. Its another thing to have a codec that can get 11 realtime playback streams of a raw format at full quality.
 
Also remember, if DaVinci Resolve provide support for the ProRes raw, it will at lease allow Avid PC users to edit in Avid by utilizing the same workflow most of us use currently.
 
Panasonic has to be blamed for that because the promised 5.7K raw. They never stated that it will be for the Macs only. And you did not purchase the EVA1 from Atomos - and Atomos promised only a support for the EVA1. In other words - your business partner are Panasonic and their dealers here who promissed something.

That is a case of business ethics, even if you do not like that as EVA1 fans. But that does not change the facts. And that after the LCD that becomes a mirror in sunshine and the great mechanical design of the handgrip.

If Resolve 15 will support ProRes RAW will be known tomorrow hopefully. If yes then the additional costs will only be another license for Resolve 15. if no the issue is even worser.
 
Barry_Green said:
A 4:4:4 codec would be a waste. A single-sensor Bayer camera cannot generate 4:4:4 data (unless you're downconverting 4K to 2K or UHD to HD; in that case, yes, 4:4:4 would be utilizable).
Click to expand...

We've gone rounds on this before, but I disagree. Bayer spatial sampling interpolated to RGB color with high quality algorithms does not produce significantly lower resolution for red and blue channels. It is slightly less than what full discrete color channel sampling would be with a 3-chip camera, but you could not see the difference. Your eyes sample color in the same ratios as a Bayer sensor. My Bolex can easily produce a high resolution 4:4:4 RGB color gamut well beyond current YUV sub sampled video standards. It far exceeds P3, BT.709, and Adobe RGB gamut. Resolution is determined by the full luminance resolution of the sensor, not the color filter pattern. There is no direct comparison to the 50% reduction in actual horizontal pixel resolution for 4:2:2 sub-sampled encoded video formats. The loss of resolution on encoded Bayer video cameras is due to low quality debayer algorithms necessary for real tiime high speed frame processing with limited available processor power.
 
ProRes RAW is not Mac only. It's a RAW format which means read-only is enough for any Editing App and will be supported soon enough. No need to worry!

It's exactly as it was advertised.
 
wschmid said:
Panasonic has to be blamed for that because the promised 5.7K raw. They never stated that it will be for the Macs only. And you did not purchase the EVA1 from Atomos - and Atomos promised only a support for the EVA1. In other words - your business partner are Panasonic and their dealers here who promissed something.

That is a case of business ethics, even if you do not like that as EVA1 fans. But that does not change the facts. And that after the LCD that becomes a mirror in sunshine and the great mechanical design of the handgrip.

If Resolve 15 will support ProRes RAW will be known tomorrow hopefully. If yes then the additional costs will only be another license for Resolve 15. if no the issue is even worser.
Click to expand...

I expect existing recorders like Odyssey will support a 12 bit CDNG raw recording workflow in some form for the EVA-1. It is a well established cross platform solution.
 
wschmid said:
Panasonic has to be blamed for that because the promised 5.7K raw. They never stated that it will be for the Macs only. And you did not purchase the EVA1 from Atomos - and Atomos promised only a support for the EVA1. In other words - your business partner are Panasonic and their dealers here who promissed something.

That is a case of business ethics, even if you do not like that as EVA1 fans. But that does not change the facts. And that after the LCD that becomes a mirror in sunshine and the great mechanical design of the handgrip.

If Resolve 15 will support ProRes RAW will be known tomorrow hopefully. If yes then the additional costs will only be another license for Resolve 15. if no the issue is even worser.
Click to expand...

Existing recorders like Odyssey support a 12 bit CDNG raw recording workflow for the Panasonic cameras. It is a well established cross platform solution. Takes large drives for 4k though. I would love to see one of these companies add Slimraw lossless compressed 10 bit Cineon Log to their recorder options. It is universally supported in NLE's.

I wonder how visually lossy Prores raw will be? There is no free lunch beyond mathematically lossless compression formats. But in a world of very lossy highly compressed delivery codecs, perhaps it doesn't matter so much.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top