AT897 or RODE NTG-2?

Chadfish said:
What is the supposed issue with the NTG-2 through the H4N? Not sensitive enough? If multiple people describe the same issue, it may be something to consider. If only one person says it, it's usually user error. Have you considered the Tascam DR100?

Cheers.
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Chad, I'm thinking about getting Tascam DR100 and NTG2, and a stand like the one you got in your room while reviewing mics, do you think that'll be enough for me? I'm thinking about recording a dialogue indoors.. Can I get same set up of gear to record outdoors? Also got a question, when I hear other guys compare mics I can hear a lot of noise, when you record comparisons there's very little to no noise at a background ( I listen in headphones), how do you record it? just to give you an example:


noisy dude(when he's using his NTG2 with H4N): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsRpdoNf4xM

no noise Chad:http://www.youtube.com/user/ChadWork1#p/u/20/1djyJxV3hV4
 
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Hi galapagos

There are a few things wrong about the "noisy dude's" recording. First is his mic placement. He's got it on the camera, which is stupid. You must get the mic within 18" from the mouth, either using a boom pole with someone running it, or with a boom stand for people staying in one place. Also he is using a shotgun inside in a reflective room. You need a mic like a hypercardioid for indoors. Something like the AT4053b / AKG CK93. Some higher end shotguns do better inside, but as a rule a shotgun mic is NOT the right tool for inside dialogue. A hypercardioid is.

Second is the room acoustics. He is sitting against naked walls, and probably a hardwood floor. All very bad for sound. A director/sound person needs to choose the space wisely. First choice should be a place with carpet, couches, bed, big book shelves. Short of that you need to own a few moving blankets (around 15.00 from U-Haul) that you can put on the floor, or hang in front of walls, or just out of the camera's view. Have some sort of boom stand or portable frame you can hang them on. That will kill the echo sound. But it's better to just find a space that sounds good in the first place. Again, having the mic close to the mouth helps here. In my video - I recorded in a room I use as a studio, and I have room treatment hanging on the walls. Those 1' squares behind me are studio foam I have permanently up there to kill reflections. Not practical for location shooting, but great for a studio: http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Auralex-Studiofoam-Designer-Kit?sku=422602

Thirdly, the camera. DSLR have consumer audio, and that high pitched hiss you hear in the first 2 examples is the sound of the camera. You'll notice that goes away when he pluggs into the H4N. Part of the reason you hear this hiss is because he is not using a mixer. Not all mixers will help this. A beachtek mixer is "PASSIVE" which means that it can't turn up the mic, but only start at mic level and turn down. An "ACTIVE" mixer gives you gain. Something like a JuicedLink will give you some gain, not a lot, but more. When you have gain you can turn up the mic, which allows you to turn down the recording level in the camera, which means you hear the hiss less. Also having the mic next to the mouth gives you a louder signal, also allowing you to turn down the audio level further, resulting in less hiss. I do not recommend recording audio straight into a DSLR. But if you must, use a mixer. And that's a mixer that can do "Mic Level". Since the camera only accepts a "Mic level" signal, you need a "Mic level mixer". A JuicedLink can do both mic level and line level. The H4N can accept both Mic and Line level. It's better to record in Line level because that signal is very loud, which means that the hiss you heard is even further lowered while recording.

Maybe that's a lot to take in, so I'll stop. But the best solution for DSLR recording is: A) Using good mic placement. B) Choosing/creating a non-reflective space. C) Using a mixer to get a good level out of your mic. D) The right mic for the space. (IE Shotgun-Outside, Hypercardioid-Inside, Lavaliere-either).

Start saving.
 
galapagos said:
and it seems like on my budget for a recorder the Edirol R-09HR could be even a better option with less preamp noise..
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This particular recorder does not offer XLR inputs, which severely limits your microphone options.

galapagos said:
Is it ok to use hypercardioid for outdoors as well?
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Theoretically, sure. But you're going to have to get the mic really, really close to get usable audio. This will limit the framing of shots quite a bit.
 
There's a pair of used AKG SE300B/CK93 Hypercardioid's for sale ($400) over at taperssection.com: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=141116.0 I'd find out if he can sell only one & go for that... I use that mic for my indoor work & have used it outdoors (when I forgot my NTG-3 at home!)- it was fine. I had to move the CK93 closer that I would have with the NTG-3, but I got lucky with the framing of the shots. You could do worse than using the CK93 for both indoor & out!
 
A rode NT3 (not NTG-3) is a decent mic for about 270.00. It's not a hyper, but it's a cardioid, and it sounds pretty good. It runs on 9v battery or phantom, but is a bit heavy. I have 2 and used them many times with great results. It looks like thare's a good price at B&H now (249.00) http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/233750-REG/Rode_NT3.html This is a good all around mic that you can also do VO and even record instruments with.
 
Guys, thanks a lot for advice... Probably getting NT3 then since it's that universal.. Questions about those recorders.. what would you suggest? C2V, seems like neither Marantz 620 has XLR inputs, wouldn't Samson SSPLIT 3-WAY Microphone Splitter help to hook NT3 into either Marantz 620 or Edirol unit? After hearing those tests I don't think Zoom H4N and Tascam Dr100 is a way to go for indie dudes
 
Great discussion here. Years ago I actually had these mics in the studio for side by side testing:

Audio Technica AT897
RODE NTG-2
Sennheiser MKH-416
Sennheiser ME66/K6
Audio Technica 4073
RODE NT3
RODE Videomic

These were all fed directly into a Canon XL2 with the same cable. If you're interested in hearing them, here they are http://www.dvcreators.net/shotgun-shootout/
 
Guy, great mic comparison! Very good addition to the portable recorder noise comparison. Priceless! Chad, I still can hear some room noise, then here: http://vimeo.com/1977907 I can hear wind noise, I understand that it was connected directly into the camera, something I'm not going to do to record DSLR dialogue, how you guys eliminate that noise? is it by using mixers like Marantz PMD-671 or Sound Devices 702?
 
galapagos what you heard was not wind noise. Look at the tree behind her. It's not blowing. You hear the hum of a normal city. You can't control everything.
 
Guy,

I hadn't seen that comparison in some time, thanks for reposting. The AT897 was my first shotgun, and has been considered eclipsed the NTG2 for an econo shotgun. In that test, it sounded a little brighter (not in a bad way) and I thought it held up fairly well at $50 less. The ME-66 sounded pretty poor by comparison, I thought the Rode videomic sounded better than the ME66.

Grant
 
Chadfish said:
The NTG-2 is known as the "AT897 Killer". It's a nice shotgun for what you pay. Nice full natural sound. Ty Ford even prefers the NTG-2 to the NTG-3. He said so in response to a video that compared the two NTGs I made. I prefer the NTG-3 though.

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Great Video Chad
 
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