Ask For Forgiveness... Not For Permission?

[lalugela]

Let me tell you a little story about today and why it ALWAYS pays to seek proper permission and clearance when shooting...

...We had to shoot an industrial film in Nogales, Mexico today. Before traveling across the border we reached out to film liason in Sonora. They advanced all the required paper work for moving camera and crew in and out of Mexico. With all documents in hand we proceeded to the border where all our cars were detained because of all the gear.

Long story short because we had a contact in Mexico and the required paper work we breezed through what could have been an sticky situation. Ten minutes on the phone, in advance, saved us countless hours in Mexican customs.

Thanks Paul. There are times when asking for permission has a HUGE payoff, and there are times when asking for forgiveness do too. I also covet the times when the former is the case. On my last shoot, we asked a storeowner for permission to shoot in her pinball arcade rather than run-and-gunning, and she ended up giving us free reign for two hours, took off the glass of priceless machines, and gave us free passes to play whenever we want. I hope you didn't assume I never ask for permission!

 

[David W. Richardson]

I hope you didn't assume I never ask for permission!

That's like saying "I hope you didn't assume I always steal. I don't. Just sometimes." Is that supposed to make it okay?

Somebody comes along, sees your car, and decides they want REALLY BAD to hop in it and drive it to [wherever]. Now....do you want them to ask you for PERMISSION or FORGIVENESS?

YOU NEVER HAVE THE RIGHT TO SOMEONE ELSE'S PROPERTY WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT. At least not for something as trivial as shooting a film. PERIOD.

 

[Doc Bernard]

Lalugela, if you don't give everyone the information needed for people to give a really informed opinion, you cannot expect them to read your mind. Only after 100 posts do you state what is "really" going on.

Re-read your original post, and show us where you said you would be using a licensed pyro-tech w/FD on set, obtaining a permit, and have insurance. What you said was the exact opposite of that and that your reason was "you didn't have the time........... this was a passion project."

So the responses you got were justified, based on your original post.

And most insurance policies have a clause that exempts them from covering anything that is a result of a criminal or grossly negligent act by the policy holder or their agents. It's called an exemption clause. They are usually buried in the fine print. So if you do happen to get production insurance and you do something the insurance company considers negligent or even criminal, you just wasted your money. Because the insurance will not cover you, and they look for reasons not to cover a claim.

Meaning you will be on the hook for any damages, personal or property.

 

[David W. Richardson]

Re-read your original post, and show us where you said you would be using a licensed pyro-tech w/FD on set, obtaining a permit, and have insurance.

He'd better tell the FD that he's on the property illegally. Good luck getting them to show up under those circumstances. In fact, I'd be surprised if the FD isn't required by law to report this planned crime to the proper authorities.

It's no good trying to build a career on lies, deceptions, and endangering the lives and property of others without their fully informed consent. And for what? Some stupid shot in some film? Sorry. It's just the wrong thing to do.

 

[Doc Bernard]

He'd better tell the FD that he's on the property illegally. Good luck getting them to show up under those circumstances. In fact, I'd be surprised if the FD isn't required by law to report this planned crime to the proper authorities.

It's no good trying to build a career on lies, deceptions, and endangering the lives and property of others without their fully informed consent. And for what? Some stupid shot in some film? Sorry. It's just the wrong thing to do.

David, since now he is getting a "permit" for the shoot, the only way that will happen is if he got permission in writing from the property owner. No jurisdiction would issue a permit without that written consent. And they (the issuing authority) would do their research to confirm that permission prior to issuance with calls to the owner of record. The Fire department wouldn't even consider the request without the permit, their Fire Prevention department/officer would be all over this to make sure it was all above board.

And no property is really considered "abandoned", there is always an owner of record, even if it is the city/county/state where the property is.

And if he doesn't jump through the hoops like he says he now is planning, and tries to "take shortcuts" due to time and/or budgetary constraints, then we are back to his original post and the subsequent responses.

 

[David W. Richardson]

David, since now he is getting a "permit" for the shoot, the only way that will happen is if he got permission in writing from the property owner. No jurisdiction would issue a permit without that written consent. And they (the issuing authority) would do their research to confirm that permission prior to issuance with calls to the owner of record. The Fire department wouldn't even consider the request without the permit, their Fire Prevention department/officer would be all over this to make sure it was all above board.

And no property is really considered "abandoned", there is always an owner of record, even if it is the city/county/state where the property is.

And if he doesn't jump through the hoops like he says he now is planning, and tries to "take shortcuts" due to time and/or budgetary constraints, then we are back to his original post and the subsequent responses.

Ya know, if he's planning to do it all the right way, then there was really no point in his original post. The whole original concept was "Can I get away with doing this with no permits and no permission?" -- in other words, "forgiveness, not permission." Now he actually seems offended that people would 'judge' him as wanting to not do things the proper way. The whole thing is way weird, but at least maybe others who read this thread in the future will get a good education about how they should be doing things. I hope so.

 

[lalugela]

David and Doc,
I don't know how I can be more clear. The Original Post was according to the original schedule which did not allow time to communicate with proper authorities, and was seeking similar experiences where people have shot without permit and/or without permission to use fireworks. Again, we were CONSIDERING this, and in actuality, didn't end up doing that. Now that the shoot has been postponed, we are able to pursue the proper approval. Had conditions permitted, we probably would have shot without permit.

David you have an extremely condescending tone— and I'm not asking for sympathy— but know that any advice you appear to be giving is lost in that negativity. The conversation evolved past one that deals with my OP, so it's more a debate on guerilla filmmaking at this point. Doc, I appreciate your response to my question on insurance, regarding exemptions. I figured that was the case, but was curious to hear more. Thanks.