ART USB Dual Pre Great for DSLR Users!

Just out of curiosity, did you record your on-cam with this setup? The dialog sounds, quite frankly, very poor. It's crunchy with a horrible frequency response. Bumping the playback resolution up to HD on the YouTube player didn't make a difference in that, and the music bed sounds much cleaner than the dialog.

It might not be the pre-amp from the ART unit; it may be a combination of the interconnect from the pre-amp to the camera and the sub-par, in-camera audio, or it could be from improper gain-staging, or all factors combined. The pause you take to denote the low noise floor has a considerable amount of hiss... again, possibly due to factors other than the actual pre-amp, but still... I've gotten much better in-camera audio on my T2i by plugging the Sennheiser G2 receiver in directly (using Magic Lantern for AGC disabling and increasing the output on the transmitter).

On the plus side, I love the pacing and the humor in the piece. It is very entertaining.

Edit: It would be helpful if you showed/demonstrated your connection and setup process. The audio level setting on the Sennheiser transmitter doesn't mean much, since that has to be set based on the loudness of the person wearing the mic. With the AF out at 0, how much gain are you adding in the pre-amp? How is the pre-amp connected to the camera? All these things will give a better perspective.
 
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Thanks for the compliment and You're right. The problem was that I did not properly attenuate the signal from the ART to the Camera. The ART is sending Line level and the camera wants Mic Level. The attenuator on the ART can do this but I did not have the potentiometer dialed in properly. Both the on camera and voice overs were recorded with the same setup with no post processing.

Edit: The sensitivity of the transmitter means a lot and should be set based first on the microphone being used and then according the talent, placement, and application ;)





This video is a better representation of how the preamp sounds.
DPA 4060->
Sennhieser G2->
ART DUAL PRE->
USB to PC->
Adobe Audition->
20 Band EQ Voice Breath Preset
Normalized 100%
Studio Reverb 2% wet
Multi Band Compressor Broadcast Preset

 
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Michael Torpey said:
Adobe Audition->
20 Band EQ Voice Breath Preset
Normalized 100%
Studio Reverb 2% wet
Multi Band Compressor Broadcast Preset
Click to expand...

All this processing makes it hard to discern. It's still a bit crunchy and thin. Normalizing isn't something I'd recommend, but I'd suspect that the EQ preset is part of the reason the sound is thin.

I should note that I have a pre-amp from ART in my studio rack (the original PRO-MPA). I've had it since 1997 and I still use it often. Not that this means everything ART makes is flawless, but I've used enough of their gear (pre-amps, EQs, compressors) to know that they make great stuff for the price. I have never used the USB Dual-Pre, however.
 
Admitedly I do not have the best monitors here at home but you and I must have different ears. I'm no James Earl Jones but that is not thin. And I don't hear crunch. I hear a little edge in the articulation of the consonants to help with intelligibility which is probably the broadcast compressor preset. Normalizing did very little to the gain structure

Original
Orginal.jpg
EQ
EQ.jpg
Normalize
Normalize.jpg
Studio Reverb
Reverb.jpg
Compressor/Final
Compressor.jpg
 

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You know.. that Art Pre output is consumer line level. Just turning down the input gain isn't the right way to lower the output.
I don't know how you are hooking up to your camera, but I'd pad down the output of preamp at least 20dB.
 
Yowsa, post and get jumped on!

My 2 cents. The first video I didn't think sounded bad. I really didn't get the crunchiness Alex mentioned. The second one I did on the first bit of "game show dialog". That sounded very crunchy but the rest sounded fine and I'm not sure where the "thin" part comes from.

Part of this is different peoples ears but it is also likely one of the problems of posting "samples". The quality people get on streaming feeds has a lot to do with their computer, their internet connection. and how friendly the services/ codec is to the receiving computer.

I also suspect that a lot of these services put the priority on visuals so the sound will suffer when there is a need for bandwidth. That may sound silly but STP has a visual priority and it's a sound app?????

Anyway, point is you cant put too much stock in listening to anything streamed over the internet.

As to the second video. You also can't tell anything about a preamp that has had that much post manipulation. And I would lose the normalizing.
 
Noiz2 said:
Yowsa, post and get jumped on!

My 2 cents. The first video I didn't think sounded bad. I really didn't get the crunchiness Alex mentioned. The second one I did on the first bit of "game show dialog". That sounded very crunchy but the rest sounded fine and I'm not sure where the "thin" part comes from.

Part of this is different peoples ears but it is also likely one of the problems of posting "samples". The quality people get on streaming feeds has a lot to do with their computer, their internet connection. and how friendly the services/ codec is to the receiving computer.

I also suspect that a lot of these services put the priority on visuals so the sound will suffer when there is a need for bandwidth. That may sound silly but STP has a visual priority and it's a sound app?????

Anyway, point is you cant put too much stock in listening to anything streamed over the internet.

As to the second video. You also can't tell anything about a preamp that has had that much post manipulation. And I would lose the normalizing.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the input and you make a lot of great points. I know all about different ears :)
 
BRH said:
You know.. that Art Pre output is consumer line level. Just turning down the input gain isn't the right way to lower the output.
I don't know how you are hooking up to your camera, but I'd pad down the output of preamp at least 20dB.
Click to expand...


I understand how to properly attenuate a line level signal to a mic level input. I have a -20db attenuator. But the 60d deals with line level into the mic input well as the input can be switched between high and low impedance
 
I thought you did a great job on both, Michael. My only nit-picky critique is that the company is called "A.R.T.," not "Art" (that's the guy down the street who has the pool table).

Other than that, fantastic.

GJ
 
Gregg Juke said:
I thought you did a great job on both, Michael. My only nit-picky critique is that the company is called "A.R.T.," not "Art" (that's the guy down the street who has the pool table).

Other than that, fantastic.

GJ
Click to expand...

Thanks Gregg! I'm happy to nitpick too!! Here we go!! I work as an audio technician at lincoln center for local one IATSE. Although ART compenents do not come to our loading docks often I have only heard of the company refered to as ART. The company promotes itself as ART not A.R.T. Even so the letters ART come from Applied Research and Technology. Making ART an acronym. Acronyms by definition must have voiced syllables (syllables upon which the human voice can sustain pitch) which in this case is the "AH" sound in ART. As opposed to an initialism which does not contain voiced consonants such as FBI or BMW. There are no syllables on which the human voice can sustain pitch in the initialism FBI. Therefore it is pronounced F, B, I. The Federal Emergency Management Agency's acronym is FEMA and we pronounce it phonetically. We don't say F, E, M, A, we say FEMA. If they call themselves A, R, T, it would be very abnormal. I will call tomorrow and see how they answer their phone ;)
 
Huh. And I was so sure that the terms were pronounced "Fa-Bye," "Bim-Wih," and "Fe-ma" (just like it looks; are you old enough to remember the "Fembots?").

"Art" it is. Tell him I'll be coming by next week for a new preamp and a game of 8-ball!

GJ
 
OK Michael, I have to admit, I couldn't let it go. I had to know that I wasn't off my nut (and I'm _not_, as it turns out, btw). But the really funny part? Are you ready?
They answer the phone: "Hello-- Yorkville!"

GJ
 
...The audio for both videos sounds "flat" ( no high end and no low end ) with over-compression distortion. ( that "fizz" sound when there is dialog )

I haven't used the ART USB Dual Pre, so I have no idea if it is limiting your audio quality.
 
FWIW, Way back when, there was a company that primarily made stomp boxes and eventually some rack-mount gear and such. That company, MXR, someway and/or somehow became ART (Applied Research and Technology) As I recall, one of ART's first products was the 01a digital reverb. (I actually still have one in my attic)
The infamous MXR stomp boxes disappeared from market for quite sometime, but reemerged through Jim Dunlop not all that long ago.
 
Yes, Rick, you've got it. And they didn't only make stompboxes, I've got an original MXR "Digital Time Delay" in the studio rack. Still sounds awesome.

GJ
 
Gregg Juke said:
OK Michael, I have to admit, I couldn't let it go. I had to know that I wasn't off my nut (and I'm _not_, as it turns out, btw). But the really funny part? Are you ready?
They answer the phone: "Hello-- Yorkville!"

GJ
Click to expand...

Who the hell is Yorkville? Did you get a final verdict? If they call themselves A-R-T they're wrong... :)
 
Yorkville is a speaker, amp PA company. Many of the same kind of things as Peavey. I like their monitors quite a lot.

I have some old MXR boxes.

FWIW I have always heard it pronounced A.R.T. You are the only person I ever heard say it Art.

Doesn't mean a lot but... The "rule" on acronyms (remember there really are no rules in english) is basically if it's easier to say it people say it, if it's easier to spell it they spell it. A.R.T. VS Art is a natural because it's just as easy to do either. But as I said in 30 years in the biz I've only heard it said as A.R.T.
 
Same here, A - R - T.
Not to get totally off topic, but ART used to be based in Rochester NY. (as was MXR) Most of ART's earlier products were manufactured there as well. I don't know for fact, but I assume, like most everything else these days it's now made 'offshore'. And I further assume that country's name starts with a 'C'.
 
I got curious about the definition of acronym, since it was brought up. As far as I can tell from a bunch of dictionaries "initialism" is a special case acronym. Acronyms often use more than just the initial but if they do they are also initialisms, but they are all acronyms.

No where did I find any reference to a voicing requirement. And I did find a number of references to FBI etc used as examples of acronyms.
 
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