Arri D-21 Cinema Camera, Cheap on Ebay. What are your thoughts on the D-21?

maranfilms

maranfilms

Veteran
I forgot about the D-21. Does anyone remember shooting on it, If I'm not mistaken, it was their first digital camera? (2009-10) They're popping up on Ebay for really cheap money. There's not much footage out there that I can find, and being it was a first, I'm curious if it's worth looking in to a used one for narrative work. Could it possibly be a gem as the F-35? There's a few videos on youtube, but quality is lacking, and it doesn't do the footage any justice. I'm looking for a detailed spec sheet if anyone knows? or if you've used it enough to answer any questions below, It will be much appreciated. From what I can see, it looks like it's built like a tank. Thanks

1. How was the dynamic range? Frame rates? Global shutter?
2. Color science, does it resemble the Alexa?
2. It is a 4x3rds sensor, Anyone know what size it was? 4k down converted to 2k? I'm guessing it can still do a 16x9 crop? But may be better suited to shoot with anamorphic glass.
3. media, what type?
4. Codecs? Raw, 4:4:4?
5. How long was this camera supported, did they drop it once Alexa hit the market?
6. Audio, for convenience, was it decent coming into the camera via xlr
 
The D-21 was not Arriflex's first. The D-20 came before it, in 2005. In 2008 Arri brought out the D-21.

Both had optical viewfinders and mechanical shutters. So although the sensor itself had a rolling shutter, the mechanical shutter made it a global shutter.

The sensor's resolution is the same for the D-20, D-21, and Alexa: 2880x2160. It's exactly 1.5 times the horizontal resolution of HD.

I couldn't find a definitive measurement of the sensor's dynamic range in my five minutes of web searching, but I found a couple references to it being about 11 stops. Then again it seems to compete well with film in this test.

I read that it was used for a while on Downton Abbey.
 
maranfilms said:
I forgot about the D-21. Does anyone remember shooting on it, If I'm not mistaken, it was their first digital camera? (2009-10) They're popping up on Ebay for really cheap money. There's not much footage out there that I can find, and being it was a first, I'm curious if it's worth looking in to a used one for narrative work. Could it possibly be a gem as the F-35? There's a few videos on youtube, but quality is lacking, and it doesn't do the footage any justice. I'm looking for a detailed spec sheet if anyone knows? or if you've used it enough to answer any questions below, It will be much appreciated. From what I can see, it looks like it's built like a tank. Thanks

1. How was the dynamic range? Frame rates? Global shutter?
2. Color science, does it resemble the Alexa?
2. It is a 4x3rds sensor, Anyone know what size it was? 4k down converted to 2k? I'm guessing it can still do a 16x9 crop? But may be better suited to shoot with anamorphic glass.
3. media, what type?
4. Codecs? Raw, 4:4:4?
5. How long was this camera supported, did they drop it once Alexa hit the market?
6. Audio, for convenience, was it decent coming into the camera via xlr
Click to expand...
All of the D-20 cameras were converted to D-21.
I would say it's between 200-400 ISO (if memory serves, it's been awhile).
Dynamic range may have been 11 stops, but it could get a little noisy at the bottom, especially if you tried to pump the ISO.
I think in video mode it could only go to 30p, can't recall in RAW (again, from memory).
Odyssey does not record D-21 ARRIRAW, but can record HD 4:4:4.
I would say that color science generally resembles Alexa.
Sensor size is S-35 and you could pull a 16x9 from it no problem. $x3 anamorphic mode (I believe it was called M-Scope) works well even in video mode once you learned the post process.
There is no internal media. Get a RAW recorder or an HD recorder.
D-21 was basically phased out after Alexa was out of a bit. Never hugely popular, but it did business. D-20 rented as an "in development" camera for years, then they all bumped up to D-21 and I think that model only sold for a year or two before Alexa. ARRI still supports its products.
There is no audio.

Be prepared for the fact that this is purely designed as a cinema-style camera. It uses a spinning mirror shutter for an optical viewfinder. That means it will be flickering in your eye while the camera is running as well as being much darker than you're likely used to. You can always no use the viewfinder and watch a monitor instead (you can even park the mirror so there's no flicker). But you can't change the lens mount (PL glass only), you need heavy sliding baseplate support, block batteries (forget handheld without serious rigging), heavy duty tripod, and other impediments to the style of shooting to which you might be accustomed.
 
I'd love to get my hands on one. I have a dvd somewhere comparing film, d21 and red and the d21 looked pretty good. If it was dirt cheap I'd get it just for the fun.
 
macgregor said:
I'd love to get my hands on one. I have a dvd somewhere comparing film, d21 and red and the d21 looked pretty good. If it was dirt cheap I'd get it just for the fun.
Click to expand...

Interesting.

The eBay prices recently have been from $4,200 to $5,500.
Wonder what they went for new...
 
11 years ago (yikes!) i graded this film shot on the first version of the D21;

after the glow-fest opening, check out the actors skintone.. yea, Alexa like is a good discription, from distant memory it was a really flexiable camera to work with.. we had DPX in an early version of LogC to grade from, i was mainly gradeing DPX scans done on Arri scanner for fims back then, digital camera's were the exception, not the rule, and the D21 held it's head up back then
 
I believe the first season of Downton Abbey was shot on the D-21, then they went Alexa after it was released.
 
Thanks for the input guys! I recently saw one on ebay for 2k. As noted, it didn't have the best dynamic range, however for the era, it was pretty good from what I can see, on par with a 5d2 if I were to guess, I wonder if you could squeeze another stop shooting log, though the footage I've seen may very well be log, tough to say without knowing for sure. of course this being a cinema camera, lighting is a must. I'm going to do some more research. I'd love to see Macgregor shoot on one, I'm sure he would make it shine no matter what the limitations might be.

@Dermot, being a 360 resolution on youtube it's tough to analyze. But from what I can see it looks pretty good, the highlights are cause for concern, from most of the example footage they have a tendency to clip, so one would have to be very careful to protect the hlights. The skin tones look great, it does have a very "organic" aesthetic to the footage. I think that ground glass helps to achieve that along with the movement/motion blur.

This reminds me a lot of the Cion in terms of image and color science.
 
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maranfilms said:
@Dermot, being a 360 resolution on youtube it's tough to analyze. But from what I can see it looks pretty good, the highlights are cause for concern, from most of the example footage they have a tendency to clip, so one would have to be very careful to protect the hlights. The skin tones look great, it does have a very "organic" aesthetic to the footage. I think that ground glass helps to achieve that along with the movement/motion blur.
Click to expand...

the crazyass blown blurred/ glowy sections were "artistic choice"... check out the ext gal walking into evil school @ 1:42, the car in the bg's windscreen is way over exposed, gal is in shadow.. camera holds it all - that's more about what the camera can produce, than the clipped out art earlier in the trailer.. one can always mess with art, but the images are far beyond what a 5d can produce in every possiable way.. never worked with a frame from a CION
 
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maranfilms said:
Thanks for the input guys! I recently saw one on ebay for 2k. As noted, it didn't have the best dynamic range, however for the era, it was pretty good from what I can see, on par with a 5d2 if I were to guess, I wonder if you could squeeze another stop shooting log, though the footage I've seen may very well be log, tough to say without knowing for sure. of course this being a cinema camera, lighting is a must. I'm going to do some more research. I'd love to see Macgregor shoot on one, I'm sure he would make it shine no matter what the limitations might be.

@Dermot, being a 360 resolution on youtube it's tough to analyze. But from what I can see it looks pretty good, the highlights are cause for concern, from most of the example footage they have a tendency to clip, so one would have to be very careful to protect the hlights. The skin tones look great, it does have a very "organic" aesthetic to the footage. I think that ground glass helps to achieve that along with the movement/motion blur.

This reminds me a lot of the Cion in terms of image and color science.
Click to expand...

2K? poo poo lets get it!!! If it shows up on ebay again... very tempting.

I'll share with you guys a comparison D21, red vs film that you guys are going to like.
 
Great Find Macgregor!! There's nothing wrong with that, it looks very nice, very organic and skin tones look great. Of all the Red Cameras, I like the look of the original the most, to see the d-21 side by side really shows how Arri has something very special in the way they achieve their color. I think the way to go would be to record to a 7q if compatible. If not there must be something smaller than the intended recorder that originally went with this camera. I'm going to continue to look around for another in the 2-3k price range.
 
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