slipstrea808
Well-known member
Hi! I'm Tyler! Nice to meet you all. A bit about myself and I can hopefully offer a bit of insight here and there... I personally own an FS-700 and Odyseey 7Q. But I work for a camera rental company in Philadelphia. We cover a large variety of the market up til major film/TV shoots. But I can say that I know plenty of people that work on these things so I'm always hearing what is and is not being used. Plus that stuff can be found online. And I'm always talking to (and advising) camera men on what is coming up to get. So I love these discussions.
We will be getting an Amira. And my boss is nice enough to let me use any of our gear as long as no one else is renting it. (on a side note the Fujinon 19-90 is AWESOME!) We are in the top 5 on AbelCine's list to sell one to. Which means (I'm guessing) once able gets the ones they want they will run down their list to see who is actually going to but one. I look forward to getting a chance to use it.
This is a thread of course about the price of the Amira but it will come into a war of 2K vs 4K, and the Epic Dragon as well. It is inevitable when saying "is it worth it" that you say "is it worth it vs..." because otherwise you are making bad decisions or growing stagnant.
So is it worth it? Ultimately only time will tell. Market forces are a bastard as they are comprised of manufacturers, content producers, clients, and consumers. As well as lots of middle men between all of these groups. Personally i say yes. Yes this camera is worth it. Arri has the clout to do so. In my market with a LOT of corporate and business work the RED Epic reigns pretty much supreme... until someone wants to go all out. Then they get an Alexa. why? Lots of reasons but usually because it looks more like film and less like digital. I've stared at so much footage between them that it is the conclusion I've come to. RED really has it in the dynamic range and resolution (I mean DAMN do they have that!!). But when I look at the two images the Arri just always looks better. I'm not talking in tests and color charts. I'm just talking the end result. And with the many many people I talk to (especially those that worked on film their whole lives) they just agree. Another weird thing I can't explain is that when you have a multiple camera shoot it never is an epic. No really. Ever. Now I'm sure it happens, haha! But an Alexa. I mean you will have 1-5 of those on a shoot.
But I'm not putting down the RED. Revolutionary camera there. And people use it for everything and anything. Most of the established production companies and teams here have one of their own. Which is funny because they always need accessories... No on ever seems to plan for that extra battery. I mean you already dropped the cash oh the camera. Its like a Ferrari. You spent the $$$ on the car now yeah, you need to pay for the insurance. But I digress.
Another thing Arri has are the older guys. They like the ergonomics of the camera. They trust Arri. They also have a lot of the money, contacts, and know how. So on their higher end shoots they often turn to Arri. That is a major factor. What does your $5000 a day DP or $1000 a day cameraman want for this commercial? What he knows and what he knows will work. So he will often turn to an Arri camera. IE the Alexa if digital. Plus that sucker has the "old school" ergonomics. I mean it. Just. Works. First time I used one I was like "oh my God." It was so simple and professional. It was designed just right. Some of my clients don't understand. And I find they have never been on a six or seven figure budget shoot with a lot of people and a lot of departments. (In that vein look at the Oscar list for films using the Alexa, no Reds) In those situations you just need this thing to work. You can't worry about interfacing modules working (or not) or HDMI cables, or weird ergonomics, and definitely no pro audio issues. I mean even on the low end of being a PA you can step back and see how these things run. There a robustness to these cameras that can't be beat. I will admit the RED Epic does not suffer from most of these problems. But I do wish it had better ergonomics. Oh well, still a great tool!
As for 2K vs 4K. Well I think thats a big topic but at the end of they day most of us would rather the better image. So Arri can say "why need 4K" and get a way with it (and they have). But I'd bet their next camera will be 4K capable. Even so, the big push for 4K is from TV manufacturers and well... Sony. They have to keep innovating. So they will push 4K on to consumers and our clients til we the content producers are forced to adapt. LIterally. I still know guys using Beta (good luck to them!). We shoot 4K now but as said before it is all for editing purposes and then put down to HD in some way or another. 4K will happen but even viewing 1080 on 4K is by no means the eye sore that 480 is on a 1080 screen. I mean SD on and HD screen is ugly. HD on 4K is not. Funny, though I had to beg a manufacturer to see this! They did not want me to see HD on 4K. :shocked:
The Amira is worth it ultimately if you can afford it as well as your clients and the work you do. If not, just rent it. It will be available soon. If you find yourself the business to afford it then go ahead an buy it. This is advice I'm giving many of my camera guys looking to upgrade their older 1080 cameras.
I'm just a small window into a big world but I hope my $.02 has helped!
rogar-Happy(DBG):
We will be getting an Amira. And my boss is nice enough to let me use any of our gear as long as no one else is renting it. (on a side note the Fujinon 19-90 is AWESOME!) We are in the top 5 on AbelCine's list to sell one to. Which means (I'm guessing) once able gets the ones they want they will run down their list to see who is actually going to but one. I look forward to getting a chance to use it.
This is a thread of course about the price of the Amira but it will come into a war of 2K vs 4K, and the Epic Dragon as well. It is inevitable when saying "is it worth it" that you say "is it worth it vs..." because otherwise you are making bad decisions or growing stagnant.
So is it worth it? Ultimately only time will tell. Market forces are a bastard as they are comprised of manufacturers, content producers, clients, and consumers. As well as lots of middle men between all of these groups. Personally i say yes. Yes this camera is worth it. Arri has the clout to do so. In my market with a LOT of corporate and business work the RED Epic reigns pretty much supreme... until someone wants to go all out. Then they get an Alexa. why? Lots of reasons but usually because it looks more like film and less like digital. I've stared at so much footage between them that it is the conclusion I've come to. RED really has it in the dynamic range and resolution (I mean DAMN do they have that!!). But when I look at the two images the Arri just always looks better. I'm not talking in tests and color charts. I'm just talking the end result. And with the many many people I talk to (especially those that worked on film their whole lives) they just agree. Another weird thing I can't explain is that when you have a multiple camera shoot it never is an epic. No really. Ever. Now I'm sure it happens, haha! But an Alexa. I mean you will have 1-5 of those on a shoot.
But I'm not putting down the RED. Revolutionary camera there. And people use it for everything and anything. Most of the established production companies and teams here have one of their own. Which is funny because they always need accessories... No on ever seems to plan for that extra battery. I mean you already dropped the cash oh the camera. Its like a Ferrari. You spent the $$$ on the car now yeah, you need to pay for the insurance. But I digress.
Another thing Arri has are the older guys. They like the ergonomics of the camera. They trust Arri. They also have a lot of the money, contacts, and know how. So on their higher end shoots they often turn to Arri. That is a major factor. What does your $5000 a day DP or $1000 a day cameraman want for this commercial? What he knows and what he knows will work. So he will often turn to an Arri camera. IE the Alexa if digital. Plus that sucker has the "old school" ergonomics. I mean it. Just. Works. First time I used one I was like "oh my God." It was so simple and professional. It was designed just right. Some of my clients don't understand. And I find they have never been on a six or seven figure budget shoot with a lot of people and a lot of departments. (In that vein look at the Oscar list for films using the Alexa, no Reds) In those situations you just need this thing to work. You can't worry about interfacing modules working (or not) or HDMI cables, or weird ergonomics, and definitely no pro audio issues. I mean even on the low end of being a PA you can step back and see how these things run. There a robustness to these cameras that can't be beat. I will admit the RED Epic does not suffer from most of these problems. But I do wish it had better ergonomics. Oh well, still a great tool!
As for 2K vs 4K. Well I think thats a big topic but at the end of they day most of us would rather the better image. So Arri can say "why need 4K" and get a way with it (and they have). But I'd bet their next camera will be 4K capable. Even so, the big push for 4K is from TV manufacturers and well... Sony. They have to keep innovating. So they will push 4K on to consumers and our clients til we the content producers are forced to adapt. LIterally. I still know guys using Beta (good luck to them!). We shoot 4K now but as said before it is all for editing purposes and then put down to HD in some way or another. 4K will happen but even viewing 1080 on 4K is by no means the eye sore that 480 is on a 1080 screen. I mean SD on and HD screen is ugly. HD on 4K is not. Funny, though I had to beg a manufacturer to see this! They did not want me to see HD on 4K. :shocked:
The Amira is worth it ultimately if you can afford it as well as your clients and the work you do. If not, just rent it. It will be available soon. If you find yourself the business to afford it then go ahead an buy it. This is advice I'm giving many of my camera guys looking to upgrade their older 1080 cameras.
I'm just a small window into a big world but I hope my $.02 has helped!
rogar-Happy(DBG):
