Arri Amira Pricing

I shoot docs and usually buy a new camera before each new production. On paper, the Amira is the perfect camera for me. A rugged body with ENG-style features designed for a solo operator. Theoretically, this is the S35 camera I've been waiting for.
I'm in the planning stages of a 10 hour doc to start shooting in May, and production will take nearly three years. I've had serious conversations with director about whether we should shoot this series in HD or compressed 4K, in order to future-proof it.

As much as I'd like to buy this camera, it's price point fully configured and lack of 4K is a real concern. I wonder how big of bath I'd take on 3 years from now when I go to sell it after the production is over? And the program marketplace will have changed dramatically by then as well.

I can't help but think Arri might be a little to late to the party (at least for me) with this camera.
 
Well if you are not on the waiting list for one now, there is a very good change you would not be able to purchase one till next year anyway, as I have been informed that all the North American shipping cameras have been accounted for.
 
JCummings said:
As much as I'd like to buy this camera, it's price point fully configured and lack of 4K is a real concern. I wonder how big of bath I'd take on 3 years from now when I go to sell it after the production is over? And the program marketplace will have changed dramatically by then as well.

I can't help but think Arri might be a little to late to the party (at least for me) with this camera.
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I strongly think that the Amira may be an indication that a new Alexa is due soon - with 4K capability. The Amira will then help Arri discontinue the "old" Alexa.

It would seem that the obvious competition to the Amira is Sonys F55, and I'm interested why you seem to be leaning towards the Amira? They are both good cameras, with many similarities between them, I'm just interested why you rate the Amira more highly?
 
Reports of HD broadcast's and 2K projection's deaths have been greatly exaggerated... Amira will do just fine for the next few years.
 
JCummings said:
I shoot docs and usually buy a new camera before each new production. On paper, the Amira is the perfect camera for me. A rugged body with ENG-style features designed for a solo operator. Theoretically, this is the S35 camera I've been waiting for.
I'm in the planning stages of a 10 hour doc to start shooting in May, and production will take nearly three years. I've had serious conversations with director about whether we should shoot this series in HD or compressed 4K, in order to future-proof it.

As much as I'd like to buy this camera, it's price point fully configured and lack of 4K is a real concern. I wonder how big of bath I'd take on 3 years from now when I go to sell it after the production is over? And the program marketplace will have changed dramatically by then as well.

I can't help but think Arri might be a little to late to the party (at least for me) with this camera.
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When you think of documentaries you admire right now do you think people would suddenly be no longer interested in them because they were not in 4k?
http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayl...s-of-2013-20131211?page=4#blogPostHeaderPanel

I don't think anything on this list is shot in 4k, or "future proofed". You think once 4k is ubiquitous no one will watch these docs anymore?

As far as resale value goes the way things are moving now, is any camera going to hold it's value for 3 years? Maybe something bleeding edge like a Dragon Epic?
 
Where are people getting the money for these kind of cameras? I shoot corporate work for clients with budgets in the 4-5 figure range. But if I approached my boss for one of these cameras he would skip past laughing at me to being pissed I even wasted his time suggesting it. It's that outrageously expensive compared to the lower end Canon DSLR's we shoot with.

I can see this cameras being used for reality TV shows or even by indie filmmakers looking for a cheaper Alexa option, but not corporate video work like ARRI suggests. There is little money in corporate video to begin with. You have to pull a lot of clients legs just to convince they should have video. Most are convinced they either don't need it or can just do it themselves.
 
Gillvane said:
I don't think anything on this list is shot in 4k, or "future proofed". You think once 4k is ubiquitous no one will watch these docs anymore?
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I agree about camera resale values, but I suspect a 4K camera and a 4K production might hold it's value a little better. I'm sure a lot of those Amira sales are for rental houses.

My last major doc project had global broadcast distribution and did several million dollars in DVD sales. It's really about this next project having maximum marketability in distribution three years from now. I have no idea what the broadcast marketplace or distribution channels will look like then.

The real sticking point with our 4K decision is sourcing a lot of 4K plus size still images that will also be needed in the production. And incorporating a small amount of unused HD footage from the last project.

It all gets a little complicated, but I'm leaning toward the F55 doing XAVC 4K, at least for capture. Seems like the smart way to go.
 
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roxics said:
Where are people getting the money for these kind of cameras? I shoot corporate work for clients with budgets in the 4-5 figure range. But if I approached my boss for one of these cameras he would skip past laughing at me to being pissed I even wasted his time suggesting it. It's that outrageously expensive compared to the lower end Canon DSLR's we shoot with.
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Then you aren't their target market, obviously.
 
Grug said:
Reports of HD broadcast's and 2K projection's deaths have been greatly exaggerated... Amira will do just fine for the next few years.
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I really don't want this to turn into yet another 4K debate, but nobody is suggesting that 1080 will suddenly die overnight, it's place taken with 4K, and everybody will be forced to buy a new TV. Such didn't happen with HD - there's still a lot of SD around now - and didn't for that matter happen with colour TV either. These things evolve - but it's worth looking ahead. If you're doing high end production, and it sounds as if JCummings is, then such as a 4K production requirement may well lead any 4K broadcast by several years.

And such as the F55 aren't just a 4K camera - they're a very good 1080 camera as well. It'd be a different story if any choice had to be between (say) 4K RAW and 1080 XAVC/AVC-Intra - if the camera would do one or the other - but that need not be the case. Such as the F55 will do either 4K or 1080 in XAVC.

It also allows for (say) filming most of a project 1080 for ease of workflow, but 4K for some sequences - either to allow for such as post reframing or special effects, or when a certain set of rushes are likely to have value well into the future. Their being in 4K can only keep that value high.
 
I suspect ARRI will offer 4K upgrade for it- they just have to give hope if they want this camera to stand a chance against the F55. Their pricing suggests they limit their market size due to their output capability. They can't match Sony in that respect. Other than for some hard core ARRI guys the F55 makes a lot more sense...
Also by the time the Amira is launched the F55 will be mature, stable, with a feature set that's second to none...
Come to think of it the Amira is closer to the F5- a camera half its price fully rigged....
Yep- the F5 just got a lot more attractive since yesterday ;)
 
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Idk it's just a guess but I bet there will be just as much 2k stuff as 4k stuff down the road. 2k 12 bit looks beautiful, I think tv will settle on 2k while the 4k thing gets ironed out over the next few years. Cinema is a different story, even then until we get more 4k projectors into the theaters we still view 98% of it in 2k. As the web gets even more robust, codecs get better, i think if you retired this camera for broadcast it will end up being the worlds best 1080 "low res" camera for web applications. My prediction is the web will bring in more $ than broadcast in the near future. I think this camera will stay relevant for a long long time.
 
JCummings, you lucky person you, in your case, I would buy the F55, if for no other reason than global shutter.

That brings up a good thread topic, Amira vs. F55.

For the rest of us, as long as your audience is homo sapien who prefer about a 30-degree angle of view to their screens, 2K will be just fine.
 
mcgeedigital said:
Then you aren't their target market, obviously.
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Then who is and how do I get in on that game? Because as it stands we're shooting projects for fortune 500 companies with budgets in the tens of thousands of dollars, yet I'm still stuck using Canon DSLRs. Not even 5D series.

So I want to know which corporate shooters are actually using a $50-80K camera package.

EDIT: I'm going to take this conversation to another thread. I don't want to hijack this one with additional thoughts on this subject.
 
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optitek said:
I suspect ARRI will offer 4K upgrade for it- they just have to give hope if they want this camera to stand a chance against the F55.
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I'd say that was almost impossible. Mean a new sensor, new processing, new...... Effectively a new camera!

I come back to the earlier point. I think it's highly likely the Amira is positioning for when the Alexa becomes a 4K camera, the old Alexa is discontinued, with the Amira effectively taking it's place in the product line-up.
 
harddrive said:
I'd say that was almost impossible. Mean a new sensor, new processing, new...... Effectively a new camera!

I come back to the earlier point. I think it's highly likely the Amira is positioning for when the Alexa becomes a 4K camera, the old Alexa is discontinued, with the Amira effectively taking it's place in the product line-up.
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Apparently they did say that the Alexa XT gets the upgrade (4K)
Why not Amira then?
 
I would pay to not shoot in 4k.

Between an F65 at 2k & an Amira - I would shoot Amira.

Why?

Image.
 
roxics said:
Then who is and how do I get in on that game? Because as it stands we're shooting projects for fortune 500 companies with budgets in the tens of thousands of dollars, yet I'm still stuck using Canon DSLRs. Not even 5D series..
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Which means your employer is getting fat off the gravy :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
 
David W. Jones said:
Which means your employer is getting fat off the gravy :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
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Honestly I think it has more to do with overhead here. We aren't primarily a video company, so we aren't as streamlined as a dedicated production company. We have programmers, IT, human resources, graphic designers and a big three story building an an affluent business district.
I also don't want to talk bad about my boss, I appreciate the opportunity he has given me. Before this I was a 27 year old truck driver making indie films on my own dime. Now I do what I love for a living and have been for nearly a decade. But I don't want to be stagnant either, I want to work with the big guns like one of these ARRI cameras. Going to have to fnd a way make this happen. :)
 
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