ARRI Alexa joins RED to kill celluloid in 2010

The Red One wont be obsolete for many years.

Epic is a form that allows upgrading of specific parts. They separate the sensor from the output module, the audio input module, the battery module, etc. Upgrade at your leisure. Can't wait.

I would bet that development was too costly to give a FF camera for a low price.
 
RED is prioritizing their key market right now - and that is professional cinema systems. The acceptance of REDOne in mainstream production likely exceeded even Jim's best expectations for what it might do. But the market is catching up. Now, players like Arri and Panavision and the others are in the market with very competitive products and he's on-notice.

Next to REDOne (in all its flavors), the Scarlet must seem like a huge distraction. And a distraction that could really fall with a dull thud if they miscalculate the very volatile pro-sumer section of the marketplace. Not that Scarlet won't immediately play A-Cam on some very small projects and additional units on many, many bigger shows. But the huge independent film market is much more fickle.

Professional cinema differs a great deal from the independent side of production in that they generally adopt very solid systems and stick with them for a long, long time. Panavision, Aaton, Arri and MovieCam all kept building options against their most central feature - 35mm film -for years. They simply enhanced their cameras over time, but the underlying medium was entirely unchanged.

Interesting times.
 
yoclay said:
I think it's partially an image problem for RED. Since their defacto motto is now "Everything is subject to change, you can count on it", it conveys an image of undependability. Reputations are made around things like this.
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I have to agree. I'm not a Red hater. I actually rent a R1 quite often. My biggest problem with Red is their marketing. They've been dangling the Scarlet in front of us for 3 years now missing countless release deadlines. If Arri, Panny or Sony did this, they'd be tarred and feathered with utter prejudice. It's really left most of the Red supporters to take a fan boy approach to this product which makes it hard to take seriously. I truly am pulling for Red and affordable cinema tools in general. I think they just need to take a more professional approach to how they release information.
 
Erik Olson said:
Next to REDOne (in all its flavors), the Scarlet must seem like a huge distraction. And a distraction that could really fall with a dull thud if they miscalculate the very volatile pro-sumer section of the marketplace. Not that Scarlet won't immediately play A-Cam on some very small projects and additional units on many, many bigger shows. But the huge independent film market is much more fickle.
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Totally, totally, totally agree. The #1 cause of small business failures is growing too fast. Not that we can necessarily categorize Red as a "small" business, but -- within a very short time frame of the Red One being launched into beta mode, we started hearing about a line of 4K projectors and 4K displays and 4K redray and Scarlet 2/3" fixed and Scarlet 2/3" interchangeable and then abandoning that model and coming up with DSMC's and then Scarlet S35 and Scarlet Full Frame and Epic-X and Epic 645 and Epic this and Epic that and Red zooms and Red Primes and Red Pro Primes and Red Pro zooms and Red mini Primes and Red Rocket and ...

It's like -- dudes, just focus on getting the Epic right. When that's right, then go look at the Scarlet and everything else.

To back up what Erik's saying -- I think the waters are much, much choppier now than they were when the Scarlet was first dreamed up as a 3K-for-3K idea two and a half years ago. The world must have looked wide open for the taking back then, but now it's very very different. And like Spec-Comm found out with the CinePorter -- markets can shift out from under your feet very quickly. If they don't focus intently on the Scarlet project, the market could be very different than what they anticipate by the time it comes out. But can they justify focusing heavily on the Scarlet market, when the Epic isn't even out yet?

Epic is bread and butter, a proven market that's not going anywhere. From a total outsider's perspective, I think they should concentrate fully on the Epic and make it a masterpiece. That's where their reputation is, that's where their existing market is, that's where the high-dollar accessories are.
 
Another way to look at it:

When RED announces a design, smile if you like it, but don't count on it.

RED could wait until they were almost done before announcing a product. Then we would have to wait only a few months, like with the established camera makers. But Jim Jannard seems to like announcing things as soon as they pop into his head.

The disadvantage is that any filmmaker with a pulse will writhe in anguish as such promises dangle in front of them. But there are a couple of advantages, too:

1. We get more products. The announcements rouse other camera makers. They may begin work on something similar if they believe RED will deliver eventually. So their response to RED's edge-pushing products come out soon after. Of course, it's like the Boy Who Cries Wolf. If RED falls too far behind, the camera makers will become cynical, like some of us have. But it looks like RED is coming along, at least with EPIC.

2. We get finer products. Feedback begins immediately after the announcement. Instead of unleashing their secret effort and seeing how much users like it, they can refine the design in the middle of making it. Granted, this may double production time, but the total time you wait for your ideal camera may actually be less.

So, if you can deal with the subjective, emotional agony, your objective range of camera choices may actually improve faster with RED's way of doing it.
 
With all that's been said, I don't think RED did their image a heap of good by cycling through more than 20 firmware builds with their REDONE. This too has created an image of undependability. Hopefully, their testing process this time around will minimize these kind of issues.

Finally, in order to optimize their camera, most folks have had to upgrade to an MX sensor on top of that, "to get the camera they always wanted from the beginning" (forgot who said that). All of this lends an air of buying an unfinished product.

The reason I speak of an image problem for RED and not of the actual quality of the camera, is because it is for this reason more than any other that ARRI with it's solid reputation has a real fighting chance.
 
yoclay said:
With all that's been said, I don't think RED did their image a heap of good by cycling through more than 20 firmware builds with their REDONE. This too has created an image of undependability. Hopefully, their testing process this time around will minimize these kind of issues.

Finally, in order to optimize their camera, most folks have had to upgrade to an MX sensor on top of that, "to get the camera they always wanted from the beginning" (forgot who said that). All of this lends an air of buying an unfinished product.

The reason I speak of an image problem for RED and not of the actual quality of the camera, is because it is for this reason more than any other that ARRI with it's solid reputation has a real fighting chance.
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You're not wrong, but people have always been warned that the cameras are a work-in-progress. Still, I think there is a finite appetite for revisions when you're trying to work any piece of equipment, regardless of your awareness.

Producers (and the rest of the crew) are somewhat less romantic about the underlying technology and any geeking-out is quickly replaced with finger-pointing and litigiousness when there is "unnecessary" downtime. Features spend tens of thousands per day and RED does need to acknowledge that this is also a reality that their customers face in the field.

That is a central factor to why I believe Arri will see a very rapid adoption of their Alexa for studio productions.
 
Living in a software world, where versions come every year or so, and bugfixes are constantly introduced, we have become accustomed to using products that should be a beta testing.

Also, time to market is extremely important. Where would Red be if they had released Red One two years later?

As long as the user can take it, the companies will do it.
 
adkimery said:
““Suddenly one day some little fat girl in Ohio is going to be the new Mozart… and make a beautiful film with her father’s little camera-corder, and for once this whole professionalism about movies will be destroyed forever and it will become an art form.””

– Francis Ford Coppola


It's dangerous to define yourself by tools that will inevitably become obsolete.


-Andrew
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well said !
 
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