Are your gigs like this?

M

mrWr0ng

Well-known member
I worked with this director on 3 music videos in the last 2 weeks, and I had some questions on generally how things seem to be going. To be frank, right off the bat I look at it as "work is work," I'm still getting paid, so it's still something I'll pursue, but I'm curious about how other people would look at these scenarios.

First, the projects always go over. WAY over. The first one was supposed to be done by 11pm. We got out at 430am, and even at 2-3 in the AM, the director's coming up with new shots and angles and telling me to go move lights into certain areas to get the angles he wants (none of which were thought of pre-pro). We did two this weekend, we were supposed to be done w/ both by 5pm on Sunday and finished the first one at 6pm, finished the 2nd at midnight. I got home at 6am this morning.

Two, he hires me as a camera guy, tells everyone I'll be doing the camera, then won't let me touch it. The extent of my camera invlvement is "set up the camera over there" which means move it. He won't tell me what's in the shot, the angle or even direction it should be facing, just 'put it over there.'

He tells me to go move lights but won't tell me anything about how they're set up or what they're supposed to do, just "go put a 650 on a stand over there." No direction, no idea of where it's supposed to point. I set it up, he goes and tweaks it.

He brought another guy out for the one this weekend. He was key grip, and to him, the director would describe the shot, placement of actors and camera and what he wants on the scene. For me, he'll just tell me to go move something to a spot and that's all my information. The key grip, however, welcomed my help - he would describe the shot, the camera angle, and where he wants all the lights and what he wants them to do, and it was EASY to work with him. However, if the director saw me put up a light or a gel, he'd take it down. Even if it was where the key grip wanted it. If the director *didn't* see me put up the light or didn't know I put it up, he loved it and thanked the key grip for good placement and colours. :confused:

I had a lot of time to help out since, after he described me to the whole crew as the camera guy, told me to sit at the capture rig (mac & RAID server w/ hd monitor) and press "capture now" when he wanted to take shots. I tried to make myself as available and useful as possible and wound up doing a lot of lighting and set work when the director wasn't paying attention, but the rest of the time was sitting at the computer, pressing "capture now" until the scene was done. Why even bring me on a 6 hour drive to work a music video and then just have me sit at the rig? He had a local PA take timecode, I don't understand why he wouldn't have just had someone do that, too - or hell, sit at it himself and pay attention to the acting instead of making up shot after shot, angle after angle and winding up 6 hours behind schedule and burning through shots?

That said, I worked hard and I kept my mouth shut and did what he asked. It's work, and I understand that he thinks I don't know anything, and it pays the same whether I'm handling a camera or sitting at the computer, but I'm just wondering, are any of these warning signs? Or is this par for the course? Should I pretty much expect this?
 
Hey
I would not say its the norm or par for the course. If you can get by without doing it than dont do it if it isnt helping you out or you feel that he is mistreating you. I know a guy who had been working on a project and he was so fed up with what was going on he quit even when they offered him 3 grand a week and he went to work on "Evan Almighty" as a PA for $650 a week. It was all about where he was comfortable and having fun. Some people or jobs just drain you so much that it makes you wonder why you are wasting your life on their projects.
There are alot of dirt bags in the video and film world, I dont know what it is that attracts them to video but it does.
 
mrWr0ng said:
it pays the same whether I'm handling a camera or sitting at the computer
Click to expand...

less work, same money. sounds good to me. but if you're in it for the experience and to learn, then this gig isn't the one for you.
 
I make enough at the day job that I don't *need* the money, but I do want experience and to learn. The money helps meb uy my own equipment so that I can start earning more on my own... it just feels weird.

The guy is really nice off the set, just when the project starts he changes. And I can deal with what he's telling me to do, I'm not here to steal glory or whatever, I just want it to be wrth my while. I want to be doing something that both challenges me in the approach and rewards me with the payoff. I got that with lighting, but I had to go and get it - my "job" was to sit at the computer and wait. Then the whole computer system died in the midst of the gig and after that I really had nothing to do but tag along.

I don't have the connections, experience or equipment to do what he's doing on his level, so it's interesting to see how he does it and how far I have to go to get there, I just can't figure out if it's like this normally or if he's holding on to everything as tight as he can. If that's the case, why hire someone when you don't want them to actually do that job?
 
There are people out there who plan a gig with the thought that "hey, I'd better bring some extra people along on this so I don't have to do everything myself," but then when they actually get there think "Oh my god, it's my ass on the line here so I have to do everything myself to make sure it's done right." I find myself doing this all the time. :) I try to fight it, because I know it's annoying to the guys I work with, but I just don't delegate well.

It's possible that this situation might get better with time, as the guy gets to know you and what you're capable of (it usually does with me), but the question is, is it worth it to wait?
 
It could be anything, really. I mean, he's got the connections, he's got enough work to pass on, he makes things happen. Considering I don't know enough people and I don't have the equipment just yet (too in debt from school), it's not like it's really hurting me at this stage.

Plus I'm even helping him out - towards the end of the shoot, his RAID died and the group got pissed while he was trying to fix it (and failed). They were asking me if I had my own video company and if I did music videos as well, but I just told them I worked through him. I'm not down to steal clients, and I got them to relax about the computer dying, explaining why it wasn't a big deal.
 
I'll say it agian... yes, it's typical. BUT... from all you've stated about not having your own equipment or experience, and this guy having "connections, enough work to pass on, make's things happen", this sounds like an opportunity for you. Stick it out, learn what you can, and don't sweat the small stuff.

Here's the deal that I've found with people like you're describing: you have to earn their respect. That simple.

If someone is pushing you around, and you take it and do exactly as told all the time, they're going to continue to push you around as long as they know you. If you let them know what you're about, prove yourself and don't take sh*t from others, you'll gain the respect you're after. I watch my "boss" push people around all the time, and yet he wouldn't even consider trying that with me. Did he when he first met me? yes. Did I put up with it? yes, for awhile. Then I proved that I wasn't there to do his sh*t work, I was there to learn, help make more successful projects by contributing what I could, and do whatever it take's to get it done, without feeling used. He now respects my opinion over anyone else he works with (although he does work with a bunch of idiots).

-brown
 
I feel your pain.

I feel your pain.

(Hey, that's a great line...I should use it more often).

I work with an indie vid from time to time, usually just he and I, and on occasion he seems to want to keep too tight a grip on things. However, I have learned that we notice different things during a job. Example: on one shoot, the subject was mic'ed and ready for action, the vid was ready to start rolling, but the subject had a bra strap showing that he didn't notice. I pointed it out, just before shooting began. He appreciated it, and waited for it to be corrected. Over time he has come to realize that he and I notice different things.

I have even mentioned once or twice that I feel I don't do enough "work" for what I'm paid. (I've learned not to make that observation aloud any more). While he and I get along ok, he's all about time, and usually runs late, tho seldom his fault. I've found what he appreciates the most is anything I can do, even if on my own, that will get the job done - or get us out of there - on time. Heck, he's even begun to pay me more for that.

This approach worked for me: after a shoot, once things had calmed down a bit, I asked him point blank if he wanted me to point out things I see that he might not notice (like the bra strap). He said yes, because it could save multiple takes or re-shooting some action. Point being: ask - or observe - what's important to him, and do what you can to help that along.

It's taken me a few jobs to learn what is most important to him, and it's showing some signs of paying off. Meanwhile, while you're "doing nothing", closely watch and observe what he does. You may get some insight into how his mind works.

Last point: look at things from a different perspective. I've heard a story about Abe Lincoln who once was complaining to an aide that some general during the Civil War really annoyed Abe. Rather than "fire" that general, wise ole Abe's comment was something like this: "That man really gets me angry. I'll have to get to know him better." Do the same: even if this guy pi$$e$ you off, get to now HIM better. You don't have to be best buds, but observe what makes him tick.

Move on if you feel you must, but don't give up.

Good luck.
 
Okay what about this... I invited him out to a gig I got from my girlfriend's boss - he works with a guy who owns a record label and asked him to be one of three videographers for this concert. He couldn't do it, so he passed it to me, I talked to the label guy, and then a week before the show, I get another call from the label guy looking for another videographer because one dropped out. My girlfriend's boss was still unavailable, so they asked me to find another guy - so I called the director and asked him to come out.

He agreed, and then at the gig, where we were to just show up with a camera, he shows up with 2 cameras, monitors, all sorts of additional equipment, steadicam, etc and starts talking to the label guy and the other videographer about all the stuff he has and the jobs he can do for them. The night ended with the label guy telling the director to call him about some other projects.

Now I don't know what to say to my girlfriend's boss, because it was originally his contact. It makes me look bad because I lost him a client, it makes my girlfriend look bad because she recommended me to replace him, and this guy is running off with his client when his first words to me before our first gig together was "My #1 rule - don't steal my clients."

What do you guys think?
 
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