are you also sick of the hate going on in some threads?

[stefanhuberfilms]

hmm, where to start...

i read a lot here and follow a lot of posts, but one thing that comes up very often is hate and intolerance - no matter what topic.

are you also sick of it? i thought it is "DVXuser - the community for filmmaking", helping others and get help back if you need it one day. But it all seems like the other way round, everybody is discussing on a level which is not adequate - stupid here, clown there, blah you fanboy and such.

is it impossible to say your honest opinion nowadays?

cheers Stefan

 

[Egg Born Son]

I don't know if I would say hate and intolerance. What we have here is an international community comprised of teenagers through to industry veterans. There are bound to be some cultural misunderstandings, youthful ignorano-omniscience and personality conflicts.

There are users who believe their opinions are facts. Those that can only tolerate one way of doing or looking at things. There are those who feel offended that certain topics (such as anamorphics) should even be discussed by anyone, since they have personally dismissed it. There is a constant stream of new users that come in banging a drum determined to evangelise to the rest of us heathen who apparently know nothing. But they soon realise in the course of a couple of hundred posts that there are wiser minds about and maybe they don't know everything. And then there's the brand tribalists who find discussion of a flaw of their chosen product a personal attack.

But when you post a problem, while some will steam in to 'educate' you, others will respond with help and guidance. There is a fantastic bunch of people in here. There is sufficient depth in the userbase that just about anyone can find a coterie of like-minded filmmakers. You would think that people like Barry would get sick of answering the same questions again and again but no, on this site such people take the time to spell it out again, in full and without snarky comments about the search bar and google. People will take the time to watch your vimeo or read your script and respond with thoughtful criticism, sometimes giving you hours of their time to do so. I say the glass is half full.

Only in a very few cases is there open antagonism (and usually born of a misunderstanding) and the mods get onto it pretty quick when tempers flare. I just assume most of these users are children and either make allowances or play along. You don't have to respond to a stupid comment or an insulting tone. You can ignore anything that offends you. I won't even read any 'black text' or 'tiny font' posts or screaming 'CAPITAL' rants, let alone the people you are concerned about. Most settle down. For it's size this is the least problematic forum I have belonged to.

Unless there's stuff going on in the forums I don't visit, of course.

 

[stefanhuberfilms]

thanks for your response egg born son,

maybe i've said this in a wrong way since english is not my native language... sorry
i really appreciate that the "veterans" are really looking forward to help, that they care about questions...

to be honest i also think that some of my knowledge is a fact sometimes, but there is nothing wrong in correcting me - mistakes educate..
In most cases it's nothing that offends me directly, but other members here...

i would say that this are things to think of, even if you are just 15 or 22, like i am...

 

[Batutta]

I was just thinking the other day that, thanks to the internet, I've learned that 95 percent of the people out there are butt reaming a-holes. That said, dvxuser is a model of civility compared to the rest of the web. If someone's comments are bothering you, report it to the mods.

 

[Justin Kuhn]

It kind of seems like a lot of the time people come on here looking for feedback on work that is frankly bad, and then when they get negative feedback they get butthurt about it, and now no one gives feedback because what's the point of giving feedback no one is going to listen to anyway? So now there's all these posts shouting into a vacuum.

 

[Egg Born Son]

maybe i've said this in a wrong way since english is not my native language... sorry
i really appreciate that the "veterans" are really looking forward to help, that they care about questions...

to be honest i also think that some of my knowledge is a fact sometimes, but there is nothing wrong in correcting me - mistakes educate..
In most cases it's nothing that offends me directly, but other members here...

No, i understood you. Your question is valid and we are all guilty of some of the things I mention from time to time. Nothing wrong with raising the issue. I was just offering my opinion as fact

Some people push the limit but it's the same in the office, the playground. In any social environment, after a time people come into the fold of the community. The class clown eventually becomes part of the fabric of the classroom.

I would suggest rather than keeping note of the people whose attitudes are giving you grief (they will always be out there), focus on remembering the names of those who make worthy contributions and aspire to the same. The most effective way to deal with antagonists for time immemorial has been to shun them. No place easier to do that than the internet. Everyone has an ego. Some need to toughen theirs, others need to give it a rest. As you get older you realise none of it matters. C'est la vie.

Just steer clear of DSLR vs video camera and you'll be okay!

 

[Luis Caffesse]

If someone's comments are bothering you, report it to the mods.

THIS.

We do our best to keep things civil here - but we can't be everywhere all the time. Often times we're simply not aware of when things have crossed the line, so the best possible thing you can do is report a post or thread if you feel it's not something that belongs in the community.

Other than that - the best advice I can give you is to do your best to foster discussions that are constructive and helpful - reply to threads that represent the kind of thing you want to see on the site, and add threads and posts of your own that add to the knowledgebase here. And, when you come across posts that you feel are negative to the site, do not respond at all - don't encourage that kind of behavior with any sort of interaction. Instead - report the posts, and move on.

 

[jghenderson]

Unfortunately it is a widespread problem, and not just on the internet. Civility is not a high priority for most people these days. That being said, DVXuser comes out smelling like roses compared to most other parts of the internet.

 

[Barry_Green]

DVXUser requires civility of its membership. No name-calling, no personal attacks, and we outlaw topics that are unrelated to us that are certain to devolve into hateful exchanges (specifically, politics & religion).

This place is intended to be a place of civil discourse. The model would be a living-room discussion. If you're finding posts that don't correlate with that ideal, report them to the mods please.

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

It kind of seems like a lot of the time people come on here looking for feedback on work that is frankly bad, and then when they get negative feedback they get butthurt about it, and now no one gives feedback because what's the point of giving feedback no one is going to listen to anyway? So now there's all these posts shouting into a vacuum.

QFT.

You don't get better by hearing what you did right.

 

[unadog]

I wouldn't say "hate."

But there seems to be an increasing trend to people whining about a camera's features as they are announced, and complaining if a camera does not fit their own, personal needs. And then they beat a dead horse with their own personal opinion, again and again, almost sneering at what the manufacturer did "wrong." It is a form of fanboyism that is almost like high school.

I think the Canon C300 and C100 threads are an excellent case in point. You have a lot of peple who have never spent more than $1,000 for a camera complaining about the price, niche, etc., while those who are likely to buy it have very well thought out, reasoned approaches to the strengths and weaknesses and already have one on order.

It is much more helpful to read a professional analysis of what niches a camera might work well in, and where it might not play as well, and how to rig a camera, etc., than a polemic or screed about why feature Z on camera H is all that matters - looking at only one feature - and why all other cameras are now obsolete.

I have to say the moderators did a great job stepping into that thread. And some of the folks who are really knowledhable about the camera - phillip, Jay, Cowpunk, etc. - have a lot of great information to share.

Then you have the trolls, who don't even know what they are talking about, but reply to every post in that thread:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...S-C100&p=1986200692&viewfull=1#post1986200692



I have to say, though, that DVXUser is a great community and a great site overall. Thank you so much Barry, mods, and to the overall professional community! Every off-line converstaion or buy and sell transaction has been with true professionals who are a pleasure to deal with.

Best,
Michael

 

[ErikTande]

It happens in threads, but like others have mentioned, DVXUser is a lot better than most other forums and the rest of the internet to be honest. I like it here.

I think one of the reasons DVXUser is so civil compared to other sites is that many of the members post under their real names. John Gabriel from Penny Arcade illustrated it perfectly.

Anonymity on the internet is what makes the internet so great but dangerous at the same time. The internet brings freedom of speech to everyone without fear of any kind of physical consequence. We can say exactly what we are thinking on the internet without any inhibition at all. It is almost comparable to being drunk. After a few drinks most people tend feel a lot less socially inhibited and socialise freely, after a few more drinks some people may start saying things that they wouldn’t normally in a sober state. This quite often leads to violence or social rejection, something that doesn’t have to be considered when dealing with strangers on the internet.

 

[Batutta]

Bahaha!....A perfect illustration...The only thing is, being drunk only makes you say things you're already thinking. People reveal their true colors in the anonymity of the web...so most people truly are f-wads. Character is what you do in the dark. I guess the 21st update to that quote would be "Character is what you do in the anonymity of internet forums."

 

[ZazaCast]

Good one 'Erik'...if that's your REAL name?

 

[VGurcu]

I guess the 21st update to that quote would be "Character is what you do in the anonymity of internet forums."

19th century update to that quote from Oscar Wilde:
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

 

[Doc Bernard]

You also have to remember, film-making is an art form and many people are very passionate about their art.


And for the snarky comment: Even if they really don't have the wisdom to back up that passion.

You this everywhere in life.

 

[morgan_moore]

You also have to remember, film-making is an art form and many people are very passionate about their art.

Its not an art its a business. All about profit. Idiot, I hate you.

And there we see IMO part of the problem.

So many posters come from their own point of view, often not even seeing that there are other reasons to make stuff with cameras.
It never occurs to me that for example someone might just be wanting to make art or have fun.
Some people think a non BBC approved camera is unusable - fair if you work for the Beeb.
Some people cannot see the point of having two back up cameras, others, closing Times Square and hiring Tom Cruise, would not dream of not having a backup or two.

Mix that with the Raw thing, and the what it should cost thing.

For example the C100 is amazing value, just awesome compared to my EX1 for example, but really its also overpriced compared to the tech I might get for $500 in another market sector.

Its a rip off and awesome value!

Throw in RAW with the BMC which is kind of second to alexa and more crippled than a GH2 and you have a melting pot for a lot of fun.

Exciting times. Imagine a fora 10 years ago
"My Betacam is the same as your Betacam"
"yes I agree"
Not very interesteing

Times of change are turbulent and it is great that we are not all paying off $100k for a crummy SD cam like our forebears.

S

 

[KyleProhaska]

The mood here is definitely disappointing compared to a number of years ago when the atmosphere was very different. You have a lot more guys now who think they're DP's or camera experts because they shot with a hacked GH2 once or used a 5D on a local commercial. The influx of younger people is another factor, which might have more to do with the affordable gear and DSLR revolution then anything else.

Unfortunately when a lot of the gear we use becomes available to (almost) everybody, you get a lot of passionate misinformed people crowding the airwaves all with strong opinions about what's "filmic" or "too expensive" or whatever else. We've all seen the arguments and the bickering.

I bet 90% of the crap that goes on here would be non-existant if everyone in general had better discernment about what's worth saying and what's not. So many things get started because someone makes a comment and another thinks it's their job to make sure that person knows that whatever they said isn't so, whether it be for their own self-gradification or hubris, or the fear that someone may read what they said and take it seriously. Sometimes it's far better to bite your tongue and let somebody have their opinion, even if you think it's unfounded or ridiculous. "Hey dude listen, the sky is green." "Ok cool. *walks away*"

Proverbs 21:23 - Whoever keeps his mouth and his tongue keeps himself out of trouble.

Proverbs 15:1 - A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.

Proverbs 29:20 - Do you see a man who is hasty in his words? There is more hope for a fool than for him.

 

[Nektonic]

I've found that I will never mention certain cameras here, or probably anywhere else on the internet ever again.

While yes, these camera debates often get a bit "intense" you could say, it also doesn't mean that just because someone uses a DSLR over a high-end camera, that they are an amateur.

It is funny, the more new awesome gear that gets announced, the more inclined I feel to just wait it all out a couple more years for various choices in the affordable 4K arena. I mean, beyond Red, there seems to be signs that the 4K push is starting, and will take a couple more years before we have lots of 4K options in the sub $8,000-10,000 market. And that of course factors in computer upgrade costs to edit 4K material too.*

I mean, it isn't like we haven't had capable 24fps 1080p cameras for several years now. I could probably just stick with my HDV, AVCHD, and DSLR gear for awhile longer. Then again, I can see why some people want to upgrade more often, whether for the fun of new tech or because their production work requires it.




* Yes, there is that new 4K JVC one, but the fact that it requires simultaneous recording to four individual SD cards and then stitching the 4K image together in post scares me. Still though, it is a step in the right direction for affordable 4K cameras. Just not for me.

 

[Gillvane]

You see this on basically every forum. There are people that have questions, and there are people that have answers and are willing to share that knowledge. Then there are people that really just want to argue about something, doesn't really matter what. Just identify the generous ones that want to share their knowledge, and ignore the ones that want to argue and you can get a lot out of forums like this one.

I think the attraction of gear is you can learn to use it. Just about anyone can learn to make a beautiful image. Maybe not something that is artistic as some of the great DPs and camera operators out there, but a beautiful image. Push this button, light like this, do this in post, step 1, step 2, step 3, you have a beautiful image. Anyone can do it if you have some patience and take the time to learn the steps.

But you can't teach someone to tell a great story. You can get better at it, but you can go through the steps all day long and still tell a very boring story. People will watch a mediocre production with a great story. People will not watch a great production with a really bad story, unless it's so bad it's good but you can't do that on purpose. You have to try to make something good, and just fail so horribly the result is art.

But try some writing forums. The tone is very different, a lot less argumentative than most forums.