are there any reason NOT to buy a 5D?

the hard ware is indeed cheap

but if it slows down your shooting schedule or requires more people or kit to operate then the production becomes more expensive

Im just finding extremely hard to close that last 5% in making footage usable from the 5d compared to the EX1 which has less jello and steadyshot if required, not to mention one zoom does all and is operable in shot

I think people need to get out and shoot real stuff and draw thier own conclusions - Ive had a 5d for five months now..

S
 
My experience after the new firmware is that zooming is great with the 5d. I have a 28-135 and I feel like it works great in making the 5d into a superb camcorder.
 
ryansheffer said:
When I am doing videography stuff I use my 28-135 IS lens and strap a H4N to the shoe mount on top, using the built in mics or externals as well depending on shoot.

I guess it slightly sucks to press record for audio and video, but saying that is very challenging is a slight overstatement in my opinion. I don't find it much more difficult than shooting a video camera if you have a zoom with IS, a prime without can be annoying.
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how do you like the h4n ryan? i've seen a few people mention they are using it. when the 5d shows up in stock somewhere with the lens, i'm thinking about picking up one of those as well.
 
I love the H4N. The onboard mics are far better than any onboard mics I've ever had on a professional video camera. On top of that - it can be used as a USB audio device allowing for XLR inputs on my laptop since it doesn't have a capture card like the desktop. It's a great tool for the money.

It should also be noted that I have extensively used the H4 and hate the thing - the H4 seems like it was designed by someone who had never actually used a portable audio device. Another note is to make sure that you set the file naming convention to the date, otherwise it starts at 00 and works upwards every time you format the card (good luck media managing that).
 
cool. thanks for the tips man. now it's just a matter of finding the mkii and lens kit in stock somewhere.

:beer:

by the way, sorry for the threadjack to the op

ryansheffer said:
I love the H4N. The onboard mics are far better than any onboard mics I've ever had on a professional video camera. On top of that - it can be used as a USB audio device allowing for XLR inputs on my laptop since it doesn't have a capture card like the desktop. It's a great tool for the money.

It should also be noted that I have extensively used the H4 and hate the thing - the H4 seems like it was designed by someone who had never actually used a portable audio device. Another note is to make sure that you set the file naming convention to the date, otherwise it starts at 00 and works upwards every time you format the card (good luck media managing that).
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Daniel L. said:
I don't understand how people call this a very expensive camera. I mean, what is expensive is always relative.. Good video cameras are never cheap.. Here are some "expensive" cameras:

HMC150: ~$3,600
HVX200: ~$5,600
EX1: ~$6,000
EX3: ~$8,400
HPX170: ~$7,000

5D Mark II + lens: ~$3,200

Expensive? Looks cheap to me...
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ya depends on who is buying ... most around these parts still find 3,000- 4,000 not cheap. Having gone thru the adapter on a HVX and then an EX1 I personally find the 5D super cheap, specially when you account the paid wages for hauling the other stuff around with you... but honestly you would be hard pressed to find the majority just willing to throw down 4,000 dollars.
 
BradM said:
ya depends on who is buying ... most around these parts still find 3,000- 4,000 not cheap. Having gone thru the adapter on a HVX and then an EX1 I personally find the 5D super cheap, specially when you account the paid wages for hauling the other stuff around with you... but honestly you would be hard pressed to find the majority just willing to throw down 4,000 dollars.
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Oh please don't misunderstand that. I couldn't agree more with you. A few years ago Spending 2,700 seemed less gut wrenching when we were paying way more. Today's economy, oh hell know. I was just responding to that post in a tongue and cheek way: "" I can beat that ".



.
 
Now the other issue is can I edit the footage on Mac Dual 2.5 G5 it's about 4 years old with 4 gigs of RAM and convert it to 24p on that computer? Because if I need to buy another Mac that $2700.00 just jumped to 5 grand. and I can't rock with that.

Unless I go with PC and learn vegas or hackintosh it.
 
An Octo-Core (8) Mac-Pro, 12GB of Memory took one (1) Hour to process 27 Seconds of 30P to 24P in After Effect's Pixel Blend.

The closest 24p to 30p you will get is either Twixtor, Pixel Blend in AE or Shake. All take a tremendous amount of time to render.

No 24P is the biggest reason NOT to get this camera. Jello hell is the second. Frame Rate Conversion takes a lot of time, somehow that's glanced/glossed over in lots of posts but not all.

Hunter Richards has a Shake Tutorial on how to get indiscernible artifact free 30P to 24p. I wouldn't personally recommend any other methods if you really want 24p.

Aliasing is my personal least of the issue, as I've seen moire and aliasing of this caliber my entire life in visual media and it doesn't effect me. The GH-1 Aliasing bothered me more because it had a larger footprint, versus the MKii's smaller but more abundant.

If you need 24p, get a camera or keep a camera that does it out of the box, preferably without anymore hoops than what DVCproHD offers. The time spent in post is a massive headache and it's the soul reason why I decided to shoot with a pair of heavy-ass obvious RED's versus two MKii's or GH-1's at this point.

When/if an update comes, then Jello, Handling and Recording Time Limits may be the only reasons not to buy.

Other costs:

AC Power Adapter (not included with the camera)
Extra Battery -- This camera + batteries is a garbage situation.
Naturally, high Speed CF Cards (two in general)
If you do not have a CF Card reader, you probably want to get one
Some External Audio Solution
ND Filters -- Can't understand how or why anyone would go without

There's more, but that's basic.

Seek objective experiences if you're asking for advice, and if possible go to a local camera shop and put one in your hands.

Good luck.
 
Welcome back Kholi :beer:

1) Edit the video, mix, color time, the rest of the post work in 30p.
2) Render to a TIFF sequence (or whatever intermediate format you want to use)
3) Convert the sequence to 24p using whatever tools as the last step to your delivery format.

Simple, efficient, painless.

After taking weeks in preproduction, production, and weeks in post-production a few hours of conversion to 24p is the very last thing you should worry about.
 
Thanks.

Please do a time test of 30P to 24P including length of project, output resolution (hopefully we're talking full resolution, as that's the most efficient way to output even for lower resolutions.), and rendering time for project length. Be sure to include processing horsepower at your disposal, etc then report back.

Painless, efficient and simple are all subjective terms. Please make the facts known, we already know the opinions.
 
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I second that. It's very important to know how much time one will spend with the conversion. My guess, summing up the posts I red: It's about one hour per minute or more. Small projects like comercials or video clips can be done over night. And if you really decide to shoot a feature with this camera the long weekend of rendertime won't hurt you much IMO. But the wedding shooter with his 60 minutes of edited footage will go through hell.
 
codeloss said:
Hey Kholi - have you tried any filters to see if they can be used to reduce the aliasing a bit?
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Aliasing hasn't really been an issue for me, but I know that on the GH-1 a Hoya Duto helped out with aliasing. Also dialing down sharpness, of course.

If you really need to beat aliasing (I haven't tried this yet) and it's in buildings, compose so that you know you have a lot of room on top, bottom, left and right of your 1080 sized frame, clock the camera slowly until the aliasing vanishes, then re-adjust or clock it back to landscape in post.

You made need a wider lens to do this, but I think it might work.
 
Kholi said:
An Octo-Core (8) Mac-Pro, 12GB of Memory took one (1) Hour to process 27 Seconds of 30P to 24P in After Effect's Pixel Blend.

The closest 24p to 30p you will get is either Twixtor, Pixel Blend in AE or Shake. All take a tremendous amount of time to render.

No 24P is the biggest reason NOT to get this camera. Jello hell is the second. Frame Rate Conversion takes a lot of time, somehow that's glanced/glossed over in lots of posts but not all.

Hunter Richards has a Shake Tutorial on how to get indiscernible artifact free 30P to 24p. I wouldn't personally recommend any other methods if you really want 24p.

Aliasing is my personal least of the issue, as I've seen moire and aliasing of this caliber my entire life in visual media and it doesn't effect me. The GH-1 Aliasing bothered me more because it had a larger footprint, versus the MKii's smaller but more abundant.

If you need 24p, get a camera or keep a camera that does it out of the box, preferably without anymore hoops than what DVCproHD offers. The time spent in post is a massive headache and it's the soul reason why I decided to shoot with a pair of heavy-ass obvious RED's versus two MKii's or GH-1's at this point.

When/if an update comes, then Jello, Handling and Recording Time Limits may be the only reasons not to buy.

Other costs:

AC Power Adapter (not included with the camera)
Extra Battery -- This camera + batteries is a garbage situation.
Naturally, high Speed CF Cards (two in general)
If you do not have a CF Card reader, you probably want to get one
Some External Audio Solution
ND Filters -- Can't understand how or why anyone would go without

There's more, but that's basic.

Seek objective experiences if you're asking for advice, and if possible go to a local camera shop and put one in your hands.

Good luck.
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Thank you Kholi. That is exactly what I needed. I'm gonna wait and save the dough so I can keep my setup and have the 5D as well. very hepful, i appreciate it.
 
filthrich said:
Thank you Kholi. That is exactly what I needed. I'm gonna wait and save the dough so I can keep my setup and have the 5D as well. very hepful, i appreciate it.
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Just from my POV, the best thing to do is keep your tried-and-true and fund these new-fangled devices separately. Ween yourself onto them so that you don't get bitten in the behind. Others will disagree, that's fine.

When the MKii gets 24p I'll be more inclined to recommend. Again, make decisions based on as many hardlined facts as you can accumulate.

Laters.
 
Kholi, I'm sure many have said it, but thanks for all your contributions to the current DSLR war/situation. You've always clearly defined the difference between hardline facts and your opinion. It is all much appreciated.

I don't need a camera till August, so I'm gonna sit back and see what happens in the coming months. But your activity on these boards has been very helpful.

Don't forget to take time for yourself, though. Your health comes before all of this. Hope you're feeling better. :beer:
 
Kholi said:
Thanks.

Please do a time test of 30P to 24P including length of project, output resolution (hopefully we're talking full resolution, as that's the most efficient way to output even for lower resolutions.), and rendering time for project length. Be sure to include processing horsepower at your disposal, etc then report back.

Painless, efficient and simple are all subjective terms. Please make the facts known, we already know the opinions.
Click to expand...

Did I wake the dead?

I figure by the time my first project finishes rendering the 24p firmware update should be ready :beer:

stay outta that GH1 forum it's depressing :banned:
 
squig said:
Did I wake the dead?

I figure by the time my first project finishes rendering the 24p firmware update should be ready :beer:

stay outta that GH1 forum it's depressing :banned:
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The GH-1 forum is far from depressing. It's simply people who love to beat dead horses to... well, death. Squig, I'm really glad that you're finally getting a camera. Your sporadic posts can then be aimed at something a bit more productive from here on out.

Dalton -- Thanks and Thanks again. I found that headphones actually help ease my mind more than I remembered. LoL. But I'm just taking a break from organizing pre-pro assets right now, so it's all good.

I won't be engaging in debates. No~ thanks.
 
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