Luis Caffesse
Admin
I think your math's a little fuzzy there, Luis.
Hm, not sure what you mean... looking at my original post, it seems fine.
You must have quoted it wrong.
:thumbsup:
Are EX-1 Shooters a Dime a Dozen ?
- Thread starter androbot2084
- Start date
Hm, not sure what you mean... looking at my original post, it seems fine.
You must have quoted it wrong.
:thumbsup:
Robert Ruffo
Well-known member
$100? For $100 anyone who is any good doesn't get out of bed, let aone set-up an interview.
Robert Ruffo
Well-known member
Getting past reception is an art. I suggest taking sales seminars. Sales are 60% of why anyone gets work, or high-paid work, although the other 40% (talent) is of course crucial.
Chadfish
Veteran
I have to agree with you there. It seems like all the hacks in the Eureka area of Northern California have their names out there getting them jobs. I read on the Humboldt Film comission page for sound people, and there were some of the worst soundmen.... no, not sound men at all. They were video guys who do sound atrociously on their own work. But I bet they get jobs because most people the hire for video can't tell the difference between good, so-so, and bad audio. I have just started hustling up my own jobs doing TV spots locally. I got cut to half time because my boss, hey, doesn't have a sales person to get us video work still after 5 years. So I'm seeing who the competition is for contract videographers at the local stations, and I know many to be hacks, yet they get that job boy.
So yes sales seminars for videographers would be an awesome idea. In the mean time - I'm available to do interviews! I did these: http://www.youtube.com/FreshTissue1
Dingos8mybaby
Well-known member
Hm, not sure what you mean... looking at my original post, it seems fine.
You must have quoted it wrong.
:thumbsup:
hehe You had me thinking I was losing it for a second there. :grin:
FWIW, I know a person who shoots corporate vids with her/his EX1 (as a side job) - nothing fancy, just product demos/training vids. S/He doesn't care too much about the technical side of shooting, but does okay stuff (I've seen a couple of her/his finished projects). S/He shoots using auto-everything mode, cuts the project in FCP, adds some basic mojo (boosts SAT, lower thirds, speed changes, transitions), has a buddy do some slick'n'quick AE graphics (titles/cards), then shows the finished project to the client(s) on a 46" plasma. They love it everytime (so s/he says). The thing is, not only does the EX1 produce some really crisp and vibrant footy on an HDTV, the person knows how to talk - I mean, it's uncanny how comfortable s/he is dealing with 'Suits', who sometimes aren't the easiest people to work with, let alone work for.
So in this case, I'd say that the person does 90% of the job (10% for the AE guy) but the camera does 100% of the work (i.e. the person does the talkin', the camera does the walkin').
Chad I see you are multi-talented. I liked that music video you did on youtube.
Don't mean to start a Flame War, but most event videographers are not held in the highest esteem outside of their niche industry. Perhaps 10% are very capable, creative people, but the focus of an event videographer is to have someone else produce the show and they simply turn on the piece of equipment they happen to have. The professional side of the video industry requires talent, scriptwriting, concept, composition, not to mention sales and marketing. Don't see many Event Videographers writing scrips and concepts. Yes, equipment is important, but as has been said here very well, the most important element is talent and craftsmanship.
Consider the insanity of using the Red camera to do a wedding??!!! Absolutely wrong tool for that job. That's looking at the biz play the game "My camera is bigger than your camera" regardless of the talent of the operator.
Consider the insanity of using the Red camera to do a wedding??!!! Absolutely wrong tool for that job. That's looking at the biz play the game "My camera is bigger than your camera" regardless of the talent of the operator.
Chadfish
Veteran
Hey maleman. Are you talking about the Ebow vid with lots of motion graphics?
Chadfish
Veteran
Hi FrankC
I think there is creativity in event videography. I wouldn't categorize myself as one thing such as "An Event Videographer" or "Indi Film Maker", or "Musician" because those are hats I wear when I do those jobs. But having done one-camera shoots of plays, musicals, or live bands - I have to say that it takes a lot of skill to capture something that is happening even if you didn't write it or direct the talent. First there is audio to consider - mic placement and getting a good sound that doesn't distort etc. (That's audio engineering, and it's a creative field) Then there is the shooting. Single camera shooting a stage full of people - and you don't know the play! For me personally - that is the Zen moment. You must be in the now, and have all your senses open so you can flow between the people on stage, capturing closeups, framing groups of people and keeping a smooth flow throughout the whole production. I find it stimulating and creative for what it is. Then there is editing - which is mostly color correcting and audio mixing (for event stuff), and even something like mastering your final mix can be a task loaded with possible choices to make - and is fun to do.
Not to avoid giving props for organizing a shoot where you control everything. Those can be arduous - but incredibly rewarding.
YES there are hacks that point the old camera at the stage, check out the babes in the audience as the camera sits untouched, use the old on-board mic, capture - add chapter markers - then burn a DVD. And those people should not be allowed to own an EX1. They should be given a Canon HV20 and a Rode VideoMic and patted on the head and told to go play.
My point is that any job one does is creative, and deserves respect. It is the people that do the job who either make it art or phone it in.
Bassman2003
Veteran
Wow, I read this a couple of times and I disagree as well think you are off base here.
You start by comparing an event videographer to an entire cast of people, script writers, producers, composers etc...
Well at the professional level as you state it, do you see many DPs or camera operators writing th script either?
Sounds like a cine-snob sort of paragraph to me. I have hired cinema folks for some event work and they were a bit out of water as to doing a great job. Every job has its merits along with good and bad people along the way.
I am weary when the term "professional" gets used to single out a certain class or type of worker. Like they are doing the real work.
You could have left his sentence out and retained a level of respect:
"but the focus of an event videographer is to have someone else produce the show and they simply turn on the piece of equipment they happen to have..."
But you didn't.
Yes, that Ebow vid on youtube. I also was diggin your music on your other website too.
Chadfish
Veteran
Robert Ruffo
Well-known member
I agree here. I am a writer/director, but I am only as good as all the people who work with me. A great camera operator (that job should really be called "camera movement artist" to reflect the creativity and good taste doing it well requires) is the eyes that see all I throw onto the set or location. Without the best eyes to see it, it doesn't matter what I did, and good eyes can hide my mistakes and emphasise what went well.
That said, I have no respect for people who do not value their team. If you are the kind of director/boss who thinks that anyone lower on the cerdits list is interchangeable, then you are on your way down soon, and no one will feel sorry for you. No one on my sets is interchangeable.
If this were true then everyone with a camera in their hands could make good videos. Well, at least watchable, non-revolting videos. This does not happen. I have three camcorders... no, I have sold one, so I have two camcorders now. So far, I have not shot anything remarkable. I wish I could turn on the piece of equipment and magically produced something that looked like StillMotion wedding video. These bastards clearly do nothing special, they just press a button and move the cam around. How hard can it be?
hi androbot2084,
getting back to a few of your comments on the first page of this thread....
since you asked about cameras and the quality factor of an EX1 for instance, i'll throw in my two cents here.
i agree with much of what has been written in this thread that basically its the person behind the camera more than the camera....but...the camera at least has to meet some basic requirments for the event scenarios. good low light capabilities is one of them and probably the biggest IMO. many cameras fall short of an EX1 but not all. as far as cameras go i have an EX1 and a HMC150. persoanlly i like the 150 a little better in low light.
as far as framerate? i personally dont think it matters much. pick one and go. i shoot quite a bit in 60fps since i like to always have an option of creamy slomo. besides that it doesnt matter much at all to me. i dont think any one over another will make or break you in the least.
you had mentioned in one of your posts about a single chip HDV camera not being taken seriously. even though it shouldnt technically make a difference as to the look of your camera...i ABSOLUTELY do believe "it does", at least in many situations where you are still in a "selling and impressing yourself mode" to a client. i think if you do repeated work with a client and now the client trusts you and what you can do with your art...then the flashiness of the more robust gear becomes less important (at times) and they know you will make it happen for them no matter what you are using.
what i would suggest to do if you want to shoot weddings is...
find a couple that is very attractive and more than anything...DYNAMIC...."the model couple". offer to shoot them ***for free*** (yes i did say for free) under the condition that they have ***absolutely*** no final say so as to what you do. since they are getting it for free they have no room to compromise what YOU need to get here. i would still be open and listen if they have ideas but you focus on what will be good for **you** and what you need to get out of it.
now, i would go ***hard at it*** with a vengeance. plan in advance and prepare yourself to get the absolute ***most*** out of this situation. DETAILS! you have to shoot for EXCEPTIONAL! if you dont currently have adequate gear to pull it off then "RENT" what you need to "do it right". if the video is great then...you greatly increase your chances to get work in the future assuming pricing is somewhat logically lined up with your final product and assuming you arent a weird freak socially.
some might say that you shouldnt give yourself away for free. well, if you dont have cliental and you want to *break* a new market then i think it can be the easiest way to do it and....it doesnt undermind your payscale anywhere near than if you gave someone a *greatly discounted price*!
if you think your worth $3,000 for a job but you dip down to $1,500 do *get the job* then guess what....in the eyes of the buyer....you are worth $1,500. your also looking **hungry*. this is never *NEVER* good!
if you go in for FREE with a client that by the way... ***you will never work for again***...then, you dont have to re-sell yourself again to them. lets just call them your guinea pigs for what you need to get. THEY WIN AND YOU WIN.
you make them understand that you have a **one time motive** here. a freak of nature and you WON"T be doing this again (and dont do it again in their circle!!!) i have done this about a half dozen times in my long career as and audio/mastering-photography & video guy. all but one was very fruitful and launched a very good stream of work in each of my target niches. im 55 by the way. "paving the way is a good way to look at it."
some here might say "how to you go up from free?"
THIS IS HOW i have always looked at it...
if you put a *half price or quarter price value* on yourself...then yes, that is the value people will think about you and is very hard to go back up from. on the other hand...if you go for FREE under your absolute conditions...it becomes obvious that you are doing it ***for yourself*** to creatively explore. a "one off" so to speak... that one lucky client will benefit from but NO others. i didnt even have a problem with these individuals saying i did it for free to others that might ask and if price would have come up. and by the way...i was never hurt by this. i did it so infrequently so it was never expected.
if your product is jammin people with grab on to what you do...for them. i would never make to big of a deal when i went into do this sort of thing. usually my approach was...i need to test out some new gear or take a peek or a stab at something a little different. or, this *might* be something that i would want to do in the future so i need to *just try one* .very very casual in my approach. no need to hype them that they are getting for free either. keep your mouth shut and just do it to its fullest.
a great product (especially in relation to whats around you) will turn heads. so so work will not. if you dont have enough experience to turn an exceptional project then this probably wouldnt work out so well. it might be nothing more than a small climbing the ladder of experience to refine your craft. it would still have value but you cant keep doing them for free (haha) without people catching on. youd be dead then for any future.
everyone has to pay dues...one way or another.
this post is a little scattered (sorry). just wanted to share an idea in hopes that you can stimulate your market.
here is a website of videographers that i have recently run across. they have a different approach that i cant say i have seen much before. a music video style for some of the wedding couples. might look a little corny to a few but put yourself in the place of the wedding couple and their family. i think this company is "gold". they wont be hurting for work thats for sure. LINK...
www.switzerfilm.com/
thanks
david
www.davidprobst.com
getting back to a few of your comments on the first page of this thread....
since you asked about cameras and the quality factor of an EX1 for instance, i'll throw in my two cents here.
i agree with much of what has been written in this thread that basically its the person behind the camera more than the camera....but...the camera at least has to meet some basic requirments for the event scenarios. good low light capabilities is one of them and probably the biggest IMO. many cameras fall short of an EX1 but not all. as far as cameras go i have an EX1 and a HMC150. persoanlly i like the 150 a little better in low light.
as far as framerate? i personally dont think it matters much. pick one and go. i shoot quite a bit in 60fps since i like to always have an option of creamy slomo. besides that it doesnt matter much at all to me. i dont think any one over another will make or break you in the least.
you had mentioned in one of your posts about a single chip HDV camera not being taken seriously. even though it shouldnt technically make a difference as to the look of your camera...i ABSOLUTELY do believe "it does", at least in many situations where you are still in a "selling and impressing yourself mode" to a client. i think if you do repeated work with a client and now the client trusts you and what you can do with your art...then the flashiness of the more robust gear becomes less important (at times) and they know you will make it happen for them no matter what you are using.
what i would suggest to do if you want to shoot weddings is...
find a couple that is very attractive and more than anything...DYNAMIC...."the model couple". offer to shoot them ***for free*** (yes i did say for free) under the condition that they have ***absolutely*** no final say so as to what you do. since they are getting it for free they have no room to compromise what YOU need to get here. i would still be open and listen if they have ideas but you focus on what will be good for **you** and what you need to get out of it.
now, i would go ***hard at it*** with a vengeance. plan in advance and prepare yourself to get the absolute ***most*** out of this situation. DETAILS! you have to shoot for EXCEPTIONAL! if you dont currently have adequate gear to pull it off then "RENT" what you need to "do it right". if the video is great then...you greatly increase your chances to get work in the future assuming pricing is somewhat logically lined up with your final product and assuming you arent a weird freak socially.
some might say that you shouldnt give yourself away for free. well, if you dont have cliental and you want to *break* a new market then i think it can be the easiest way to do it and....it doesnt undermind your payscale anywhere near than if you gave someone a *greatly discounted price*!
if you think your worth $3,000 for a job but you dip down to $1,500 do *get the job* then guess what....in the eyes of the buyer....you are worth $1,500. your also looking **hungry*. this is never *NEVER* good!
if you go in for FREE with a client that by the way... ***you will never work for again***...then, you dont have to re-sell yourself again to them. lets just call them your guinea pigs for what you need to get. THEY WIN AND YOU WIN.
you make them understand that you have a **one time motive** here. a freak of nature and you WON"T be doing this again (and dont do it again in their circle!!!) i have done this about a half dozen times in my long career as and audio/mastering-photography & video guy. all but one was very fruitful and launched a very good stream of work in each of my target niches. im 55 by the way. "paving the way is a good way to look at it."
some here might say "how to you go up from free?"
THIS IS HOW i have always looked at it...
if you put a *half price or quarter price value* on yourself...then yes, that is the value people will think about you and is very hard to go back up from. on the other hand...if you go for FREE under your absolute conditions...it becomes obvious that you are doing it ***for yourself*** to creatively explore. a "one off" so to speak... that one lucky client will benefit from but NO others. i didnt even have a problem with these individuals saying i did it for free to others that might ask and if price would have come up. and by the way...i was never hurt by this. i did it so infrequently so it was never expected.
if your product is jammin people with grab on to what you do...for them. i would never make to big of a deal when i went into do this sort of thing. usually my approach was...i need to test out some new gear or take a peek or a stab at something a little different. or, this *might* be something that i would want to do in the future so i need to *just try one* .very very casual in my approach. no need to hype them that they are getting for free either. keep your mouth shut and just do it to its fullest.
a great product (especially in relation to whats around you) will turn heads. so so work will not. if you dont have enough experience to turn an exceptional project then this probably wouldnt work out so well. it might be nothing more than a small climbing the ladder of experience to refine your craft. it would still have value but you cant keep doing them for free (haha) without people catching on. youd be dead then for any future.
everyone has to pay dues...one way or another.
this post is a little scattered (sorry). just wanted to share an idea in hopes that you can stimulate your market.
here is a website of videographers that i have recently run across. they have a different approach that i cant say i have seen much before. a music video style for some of the wedding couples. might look a little corny to a few but put yourself in the place of the wedding couple and their family. i think this company is "gold". they wont be hurting for work thats for sure. LINK...
www.switzerfilm.com/
thanks
david
www.davidprobst.com
Last edited:
Chadfish
Veteran
David those wedding video guys made some sweet looking stuff! I think I could make out an EX1 with a letus in one of the shots. Very cool. I wonder how they license music for wedding videos.
Also I like your idea of giving away a little in order to get the word out on your skills. I had a serendipitous moment with something like that. I was carrying my camera down the street one day and ran into a couple of musicians I kew from years ago who had moved. They rather bluntly asked me to shoot their show that night and I just sort of rolled with it and said, "OK, but just one set". So I showed up and treated it like a real job and made them a nice DVD to sell or give away - whatever they wanted. A few days later they were playing the DVD in a studio they were recording in and the engineer asked who did that for them. They dropped my name and number and I got a paying gig that night shooting the engineer's band. Then the engineer started mentioning me to whomever mentioned video around him. Subsequently I have made thousands of dollars off of that one nice, FREE, gesture. In fact one of my best clients is from one of those recommendations, and through that revenue I purchased my EX1.
What goes around comes around. I say don't phone it in even if you are doing someone a favor. Always do your best work and it will pay off.
Chad
Also I like your idea of giving away a little in order to get the word out on your skills. I had a serendipitous moment with something like that. I was carrying my camera down the street one day and ran into a couple of musicians I kew from years ago who had moved. They rather bluntly asked me to shoot their show that night and I just sort of rolled with it and said, "OK, but just one set". So I showed up and treated it like a real job and made them a nice DVD to sell or give away - whatever they wanted. A few days later they were playing the DVD in a studio they were recording in and the engineer asked who did that for them. They dropped my name and number and I got a paying gig that night shooting the engineer's band. Then the engineer started mentioning me to whomever mentioned video around him. Subsequently I have made thousands of dollars off of that one nice, FREE, gesture. In fact one of my best clients is from one of those recommendations, and through that revenue I purchased my EX1.
What goes around comes around. I say don't phone it in even if you are doing someone a favor. Always do your best work and it will pay off.
Chad
Last edited:
hi chad,
your situation is a great example of "getting things going"!
by the way i took a look at some of your 3D stuff everyone was talking about and i have to say that i was very impressed. very cool and clever stuff. sweet eye candy!! im sure the clients loved it.
thanks
david
www.davidprobst.com
your situation is a great example of "getting things going"!
by the way i took a look at some of your 3D stuff everyone was talking about and i have to say that i was very impressed. very cool and clever stuff. sweet eye candy!! im sure the clients loved it.
thanks
david
www.davidprobst.com
Chadfish
Veteran
Hi David. Thanks. I dig your photos too. Do you do video as well?
With the 3D motion graphics - that was usually something I threw in for the same reason again. I am new at motion graphics, so I just did it for free to build up my portfolio. The client liked it and now I have something to show. I find it much easier to use (with permission) a client's job to try out new stuff, rather than make up something from scratch.
With the 3D motion graphics - that was usually something I threw in for the same reason again. I am new at motion graphics, so I just did it for free to build up my portfolio. The client liked it and now I have something to show. I find it much easier to use (with permission) a client's job to try out new stuff, rather than make up something from scratch.
hi chad,
keep up the efforts of the 3D stuff! i think youll have good success with that.
i consider myself a bit more of a photographer than video guy. i have more of a push going on with video lately though. trying to build it a bit more. i go in phases with things from time to time. many potential clients for video know me from the photo world so its a pretty easy transition.
here is a link to a few recent videos...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fjehb82yFlQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvhNBKHkgMY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdmCrzrRbCI
audio was live. chirping birds and swooshing trees are real not an effect (many people think are)
thanks
david
www.davidprobst.com
Last edited:
Chadfish
Veteran
David I really like those vids! I assume it's EX1 footage? In thing - the strobing. Is that intentional? That gets distracting pretty quickly. If it's a film effect plugin, I don't think it's necessary. You have a nice diffusion thing going on with the light and the color is cool.
Also What audio setup do you have there> It looks a bit like a Zoom H4, but you have a cable going down the mic stand. It that a stereo mic pointing at the harp? What model?
Also What audio setup do you have there> It looks a bit like a Zoom H4, but you have a cable going down the mic stand. It that a stereo mic pointing at the harp? What model?