Are DSLRs for video dead?

[ROCKMORE]

the current firmware...very limiting (as of now, that is)

I'm also fine with my own Canon 5Dmk2, 60D and an EX3 on hand for a very cheap rental price. Maybe by mid 1213 the BMC will be more worked out. The panic ordering and arguments breaking out between buyers in a long que seem way over the top. There was even a long time member of DVXuser this week who got the first BMC from B&H and wanted to sell it for cost. He was accused of being a scammer and a thief until it arrived and he posted photos of the new camera in the box and the B&H paperwork. This mob mentality is really a shock. Like wild hyenas.
There are so many cameras out and soon to be announced that there are sure to be some surprises by NAB next year.
The Sony Action Cam is a good example of how fast the market can swing. A $200 camera that shoots 120fps in 720p and Zeiss designs in the optics. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAQDVAtAiik
I know you can't compare the IQ to BMC, but it shows that cameras will come out of left field as camera companies fight for new markets. They already have all the sensors and processors they need, just what shape box to house it in and what sector of the market to target.

Now to compete with the Canon and Nikon FF cine world, Sony announces the NEX-VG900 FF for $3000. Again not a 2.5k Raw camera, but FF and dedicated to motion picture work.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/0...-VG-30-APS-C-model-and-18-200-power-zoom-lens
VG900 will sell for around $3,300 with A-mount adapter, the VG30 will cost $2,700 with 18-200mm or $1,800 body-only.

What's next? I would imagine an APS-C Raw camera from BMC or from the competition. There are big bucks ready to jump on these new cameras, but the company who reached the market first gets the feeding frenzy.
What I would like to see is an upgrade in the Canon APS-C lineup to compete with the IQ coming out of the hacked GH-2 and unreleased GH-3. Canon would be wise to do this, because even loyal Canon users like myself are looking at a GH-3 and an option. By June if canon doesn't step up I will switch to a GH-3 as my primary carry around camera. Even when I have a BMC I doubt that I will want to carry a 4 pound camera body and a few lenses everywhere I go like I do a 60D. Also the stealth factor is important in public areas.
Technicolor Cinestyle and other flat styles have proven that with firmware upgrades may be all it takes to improve the performance of even an existing system 200% even with the existing hardware.

Finally there is the ultimate question of how good is good enough. Since the realistic presentation size these days for 99.9% of the market is U-Tube the vast majority of the market may loose interest in Raw acquisitions when the price of a loaf of bread does actually reach $9. Then again a new camera will be born.

So shoot with what you have today and hang on to your cash a little bit longer. Oh yeah, lets all be friends too.

 

[unadog]

And then you can stop on the way home from the camera store, and buy a loaf of 9 dollar bread, 11 dollar a gallon gas. People, hyper inflation is coming. I hate to say it but, the market is going to be flooded with cheap cameras that people will have to sell to eat. Anyone that has any basic knowledge should see the writing is on the wall. This is what happens when when your gov. prints money every few years.

No, not at all.

I have an MBA and worked as a VP in Finance for 16 years. I helped start an automotove finance company that we grew to 600 employees and a multi-billion dollar portfolio. I think I understand macro economics pretty well.

When we enter a recession, the government needs to spend to counter the business cycle. 98% of economists say absolutely that the stimuls was the right thing.

It is called Keynesian economics, after John Maynard Keynes. it is well accepted theory.

Even Ryan supposrted the Bush stimulus, before they became against everything that Obama was for. That is a major lesson fron the great depression in the 1930's. If you look at Europe, they tried to go back to austerity too soon and pushed themselves back into a recession.

What does not make sense is for the government to use deficeit spending during good times - the 8 years prior to 2008! We went from a balanced budget and good economy to spending trillions on two wars "off the books" - without paying for them. Or giving huge tax cuts, without paying for them. People had too much money, they took incredible risks chasing yield. The neo-cons specifically set out to spend so much that the government would havr to be downsized. Ideologues cause huge problems, where pragmatists do what is right at the right time.

The defeict spending will right itself as the economy improves. Then it will be time to balance accounts, balance the budget, tweak medicare and social security to keep them on sound footing.

Although this is mostly OT, and we should probably stop now. But I thought that point needed a response.

For more detailed thought on finance, try "The Baseline Scenario":

http://baselinescenario.com/

 

[squig]

Great fanatsy script you've got going there unadog....now back to the real world.

Back on topic, I really couldn't care less about the IQ of the BMCC, I'm happily shooting narrative work with the 5D MKIII and I don't have any major issues with the cinematography. Hoping my magic lantern donation pays off, stocking up on supplies, and waiting for the hyenas.

 

[nigelbb]

Yeah, as much as i love the image from the BMCC, i just know i can't live with it with the current firmware...very limiting (as of now, that is)... Also the only real way to use the bmcc handheld is with a rig...not a fan of those overly large, over-expensive and overly ridiculous frankenrigs.
I don't need the best image quality and super high latitude...And the 5d3 seems to be very decent if you sharpen in post....soo.....

I agree. The issue I have shooting weddings with my C300 is that the image is too good & is very difficult to cut together with footage from 5D2/5D3. Ideally I need three C300s but that's not going to happen. Three C100s would be cheaper but probably three 5D3s is good enough.

 

[Postmaster]

I dont want to be a panic type, but I have to disagree, I strongly believe the sky will be falling.

Yup, just like I see it - and there will be blood.

Back on topic:

Regarding the IQ of the BMC and how much you can get out of it.
I did a little DR stress test and I have to say, that with every DSLR out there, this would be not been possible.
All the highlights would been blown to hell and back, also the shadows would be just black blotches without any texture left.

I recommend to download the clip.

We talking about 13 solid stops - that's normally Alexa and RED HDR territory.

 

[squig]

Yup, just like I see it - and there will be blood.

Hey there's light at the end of the tunnel....followed by a mushroom cloud. :violent5:

I've come to like blown highlights but an option to save them would be nice. The DR is lower with ProRes right?

 

[squig]

Yeah, as much as i love the image from the BMCC, i just know i can't live with it with the current firmware...very limiting (as of now, that is)... Also the only real way to use the bmcc handheld is with a rig...not a fan of those overly large, over-expensive and overly ridiculous frankenrigs.
I don't need the best image quality and super high latitude...And the 5d3 seems to be very decent if you sharpen in post....soo.....

You can't shoot handheld with the MKIII without a rig either, too much rolling shutter. I put a shoulder rig together with parts from a few different sources for $500, if I was to put together another one now I could probably build a nice rig for about $400 that's every bit as good if not better than a high end rig.

 

[Donald Ong]

You can't shoot handheld with the MKIII without a rig either, too much rolling shutter. I put a shoulder rig together with parts from a few different sources for $500, if I was to put together another one now I could probably build a nice rig for about $400 that's every bit as good if not better than a high end rig.

I've gotten some decent handheld stuff with my mate's 60d before...of course that was with a lens with IS...
BTW, i've managed to save my self a few hundred quid! I have mastered (well, sort of) the art of using a tripod as a steadicam! Well, a very heavy steadicam which can't be used for more than 2 minutes before your arms turn to jelly, but hey, its free...and heaven forbid, it actually looks smoother than half of the glidecam test videos on youtube! It won't match a dedicated steadicam op with 15+ years using full steadicam vest, but hey, very decent for free!

 

[ROCKMORE]

there will be blood.
[/video]

Maybe my all time favorite film

 

[eleison]

So shoot with what you have today and hang on to your cash a little bit longer. Oh yeah, lets all be friends too.

I agree with this statement. I have a gh2 and a 7d - nothing in the market place is compelling for me, an advance amateur. Obviously, there are thousands of people who need the 10K plus cameras who make video's for a living, but for the millions of people who create videos for friends and family, I say wait until the manufactures get their act together.

 

[squig]

I've gotten some decent handheld stuff with my mate's 60d before...of course that was with a lens with IS...
BTW, i've managed to save my self a few hundred quid! I have mastered (well, sort of) the art of using a tripod as a steadicam! Well, a very heavy steadicam which can't be used for more than 2 minutes before your arms turn to jelly, but hey, its free...and heaven forbid, it actually looks smoother than half of the glidecam test videos on youtube! It won't match a dedicated steadicam op with 15+ years using full steadicam vest, but hey, very decent for free!

The tripod trick works well, I used one with my D90.

 

[Donald Ong]

The tripod trick works well, I used one with my D90.

I used it before too (the, hold one of the legs near the head trick)...but I've found another method that gives sublime results. You need a tripod with a bowl head, and you rest you palm against the bottom of the bowl mount (rest your palm without gripping anything). Because there is even less contact and your palm still can move freely, it acts sort of like a gimbal...if that makes any sense

 

[ROCKMORE]

nothing in the market place is compelling for me

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

I get excited with all the new camera announcements for about 30 seconds, but when it comes to putting my money down I'm more cautious than ever. When you stack up all the competition and can realistically say that a 3 year old Canon 5Dmk2 with a mosaic AA filter is still one of the possible choices, that says a lot about what's new.
It's much safer to rent what I need because every job is different. The client pays the bill and we all make money.
For the camera I need with me at all time, a DSLR still covers the most ground.
It would be nice if Canon would just up the MB/s in the firmware to compete with a hacked GH-2 in the detail department on the next generation of APS-C, but I'm not counting on anything anymore. Just wait and see.

The latest announcements from Canon are like watching an old magic show,
oh no, not the rabbit in a hat trick again zzzzzzzz.

 

[Gary Huff]

When you stack up all the competition and can realistically say that a 3 year old Canon 5Dmk2 is still one of the possible choices, that says a lot about what's new.

That's absolutely not the case in my opinion. If you pick a Canon 5D2 over the 5D3 (just for starters) for any other reason than you simply cannot afford it, then you're making a mistake. The 5D3 video is so improved over the 5D2, especially in the aliasing and moire department. It's the only Canon worth getting at this point (we'll see what the 6D turns out like). Anyone who buys a T2i/T3i/T4i/60D/7D/5D2 new at this point in time is not spending their money wisely.

 

[unadog]

Great fanatsy script you've got going there unadog....

At least it is based on specific knowledge. The rest is conspiracy theory babble by people who know nothing about macro economics.

 

[ROCKMORE]

That's absolutely not the case in my opinion. If you pick a Canon 5D2 over the 5D3 (just for starters) for any other reason than you simply cannot afford it, then you're making a mistake. The 5D3 video is so improved over the 5D2, especially in the aliasing and moire department. It's the only Canon worth getting at this point (we'll see what the 6D turns out like). Anyone who buys a T2i/T3i/T4i/60D/7D/5D2 new at this point in time is not spending their money wisely.

I did say "possible" choices, and theoretically speaking of course.
If I put my money down in +3 grand territory the BMC trumps the MK3 for production, not for everyone, but for me.
The reality is before the BMC has been delivered there will surely be something even more interesting. So if you already have a camera on the job, the best way to spend your money right now is on a six pack of beer. I save thousands of dollars that way every day.

 

[Gary Huff]

I agree with you there. I think the BMC is worth watching because it delivers something that no other camera in its price range is doing right now: CinemaDNG/ProRes HQ/DNxHD shooting to SSDs. That's different enough that it's worth looking into, even if you have a camera that's already doing well for you. I am very happy with my GH2/60D/HPX-170 cameras, but will probably get the BMC at some point (and the EOS version to boot...my Nikkors will mount and my wide angle is the Tokina EF).

 

[Donald Ong]

That's absolutely not the case in my opinion. If you pick a Canon 5D2 over the 5D3 (just for starters) for any other reason than you simply cannot afford it, then you're making a mistake. The 5D3 video is so improved over the 5D2, especially in the aliasing and moire department. It's the only Canon worth getting at this point (we'll see what the 6D turns out like). Anyone who buys a T2i/T3i/T4i/60D/7D/5D2 new at this point in time is not spending their money wisely.

Nah, T4i's still an option....for fifth graders on youtube with no money haha
But yeah, 5d3 and potentially 6d are the only canon DSLRs worth looking into at this point. If i can't afford one i would rather get a gh3 or nex5n

 

[Gary Huff]

If i can't afford one i would rather get a gh3 or nex5n

If someone needs a camera under $1000, and is willing to put up with bugs and quirks in exchange for one of the best small camera images out there, a GH2 is still a great camera. I don't think the GH3 is going to dethrone it until we get Flowmotion or Sedna or one of those other hacks on it.

 

[Donald Ong]

If someone needs a camera under $1000, and is willing to put up with bugs and quirks in exchange for one of the best small camera images out there, a GH2 is still a great camera. I don't think the GH3 is going to dethrone it until we get Flowmotion or Sedna or one of those other hacks on it.

And why not? Doesn't the gh3 do everything the gh2 does except better? Yeah, its more expensive, but I would rather not mess with hacks just to enhance a camera. I would NEVER bring a hacked camera to a shoot (that's probably just me, however)...though it isn't under 1000 anymore...

PS; talking of cheap cameras. anyone remembers that thread started by some goofball who wanted FULLhd 60p and 24p and other goodies for 100 dollars and had a really bad attitude?