Are actors willing to work only on weekends over a few months time for $0?

[Patryk_Rebisz]

Azmyth, lets do little math. You have a large cast and you want to at least reimburse them gas money. Great. So lets say you have 5 actors/day at $20/person that adds up to $100/day. Which on, say, 18 day shoot adds up to $1800 that you need to add to the budget.

Then because you will be working on the film you won't get to do your day job and unfortunately the landlord and the gas, electric and phone company doesn't share yours and mine enthusiasm about the filmmaking and expect to be payed. So $1000 comes out of your savings to pay the rent and utilities and as such they need to be added to your budget.

$1300 + $1800 + $1000 = $4100. So with it i just tripled your budget... Now any, even crappy, producer would see through your budgeting holes and point those out. I mean, you made a gross miscalculation thus what makes you think that you didn't make similar blunder in, say, your scheduling? And if you, a person why has devoted so much time to this project can overlook such huge aspects of the production what makes you think that your unpaid crew of film enthusiasts will not do the same especially since they are there only to help out? You pay people not because it's a nice thing to do (which it is) but because with it comes responsibility and experience so that you won't have your "sound guy" booming while talking on the phone (actual experience with a volunteer), or "AC" drop your $15000 s16mm camera totaling it (actual experience of my friend, the insurance covered most of it but the director still had to chime in $3000).

I like your enthusiasm, unfortunately it reminds me (and please don't take it in a wrong way) of the film guy from "American Movie" (you can stream it on netflix).

 

[David Jimerson]

Hey everyone, I'm gearing up to shoot an hour long short and I was wondering if anyone has had any experience casting actors/actresses to work on an ultra low budget indie film where the shooting was only done on weekends over a few months time and the actors could only be paid in food/copy/credit? That's the situation I'll be getting into as the director and I'm trying to decide if I should even try casting professional actors or use friends I know I can count on to stick it out for 6 months of filming for $0. I spent all my money on buying professional equipment so I don't have any money to pay the cast/crew and I still work full time as a courier during the week so, I can only shoot on weekends. I'm just afraid of casting actual actors who can act and then 3 months into filming they quit because they're not getting paid and they're giving up their weekends. Has anyone shot a movie this way and if you had professional actors, where is a good place to cast them? Thanks. I live in the Los Angeles area, by the way. Santa Clarita, CA to be exact.

Aside from the very, very good input by everyone else, I'd attack the length of your script. You'll probably find that you can trim it down to 15 pages/minutes and even tell the better story with it by doing so. Then, you won't be looking at holding everything together for three months or more.

An hour is generally too long for a short, and too short for a feature, both from the perspectives of viewing and marketing -- and it won't even fit most festivals' requirements (though I don't claim to know the requirements of every festival out there, an hour-long film would not work for typical festvals' scheduling needs). Obviously, a feature is out of the question here, and you'll be saving yourself a lot of the hassle you're worrying about by trimming your schedule.

 

[RockmanX3]

Azmyth, how much is/was your food bill? With most fast food places having a minimum of $5.99 per meal, I assume that's going to get pretty costly.

 

[Azmyth]

Azmyth, lets do little math. You have a large cast and you want to at least reimburse them gas money. Great. So lets say you have 5 actors/day at $20/person that adds up to $100/day. Which on, say, 18 day shoot adds up to $1800 that you need to add to the budget.

Then because you will be working on the film you won't get to do your day job and unfortunately the landlord and the gas, electric and phone company doesn't share yours and mine enthusiasm about the filmmaking and expect to be payed. So $1000 comes out of your savings to pay the rent and utilities and as such they need to be added to your budget.

$1300 + $1800 + $1000 = $4100. So with it i just tripled your budget... Now any, even crappy, producer would see through your budgeting holes and point those out. I mean, you made a gross miscalculation thus what makes you think that you didn't make similar blunder in, say, your scheduling? And if you, a person why has devoted so much time to this project can overlook such huge aspects of the production what makes you think that your unpaid crew of film enthusiasts will not do the same especially since they are there only to help out? You pay people not because it's a nice thing to do (which it is) but because with it comes responsibility and experience so that you won't have your "sound guy" booming while talking on the phone (actual experience with a volunteer), or "AC" drop your $15000 s16mm camera totaling it (actual experience of my friend, the insurance covered most of it but the director still had to chime in $3000).

I like your enthusiasm, unfortunately it reminds me (and please don't take it in a wrong way) of the film guy from "American Movie" (you can stream it on netflix).

I don't want to drag this out any longer, but I will respond to a few things and then be done with it. I respect everything that has been said, and hope to report back on my film later for more input.

I have 26 actors... of those 26, 5 of them will be driving more than 30 minutes to set. I have prepared alot more detailed of a "budget" in my production book. I've offered gas money to those who "want" it.. but the answer I usually get is.. "don't worry.. I really like the project, if I need help with gas I will let you know".... "Save if for more important stuff.. i really want to see this film get made.."

The budget for it is there if I need it.

Everyone on the production has a "day job" and working with us will not change that. So, all bills will get paid just as they always have. The only difference is, instead of sitting home or getting drunk on a Saturday or Sunday.. they will be busy working on a movie set instead. Sounds like a pretty good trade to me. Weekend shoots only. I've also been told by some of the professional actors who auditioned that this is good, because they all work day jobs and it makes it alot easier for them to schedule other projects/work.. during the week.. Makes alot of sense to me.

I'm not sure what else I've overlooked, but I'm sure there will always be something. I've tried to be as thorough as I can. This is a community project, and thus I'm sure there will be some issues that arise with not using more experienced folks. But, ya know what? I'm cool with that. I've dealt with alot worse. The good thing is.. while my volunteers may be inexperienced on a film set.. they are not inexperienced in the "job" they will have on set. For example.. you mentioned the audio/boom guy talking on his phone on set. Well, my audio guy is a musician friend who has done studio work and understands fully that when your "Recording" it has to be silent.

Good thing I don't have a 15,000 dollar camera to worry about.

Rock to answer your question. The restaurants would all be mom and pop shops or local catering. No fast food chains, that I know of. If any it would be Subway.

I budgeted about 100.00 a day for food, if I wind up having to pay for any of it. The president of the chamber of commerce here is the bomb, and has done so much for the production... if anyone deserves to get paid its her.

 

[DecadenceFilms]

Some good posts on both sides of the argument.

Personally I would like to strongly back up what Mattykins said:

The key factor is 6 months.

6 long, tiring months.

I've worked on a film like this, with a strong up and coming Director and a Bafta award winning Producer. The Director had got a decent amount of money for a project, but wanted to shoot a low budget feature before hand in preparation.

By the end of it everyone had lost interest. All the passion and fire had just leeched out of it along the way.

It can happen over two weeks, definitely over three even with pay. Over 6 months without pay and everyone on set will actively despise the project. They will hate it with a passion and just want it to be over with.

People have lives. They will have weddings to attend, they'll get ill. You'll have delays. Your 6 month schedule will become 8, then 10....because every day you miss is a week under this system. You have to wait another week to get it back. You can't just make up time the next day.

I would strongly advise not to do it. Filmmaking is difficult, but with correct preparation and a little thought, you can at least prevent so many common mistakes and errors.

If you are willing to work weekends, work as many weekends as you need to save the money to allow you to shoot for two or three weeks straight and prepare the hell out of it before hand as well.

Filmmaking is the most difficult art form to get right and when you start adding layer upon layer of further difficulty you are in danger of making it impossible.

 

[Barry_Green]

Aside from the very, very good input by everyone else, I'd attack the length of your script.

Gospel, right there. There is absolutely no better way to save money, time, effort, energy, frustration, hassle, headache and heartache, than to just cut the script to the bone at the beginning.

If you cut a scene at the script stage, you never have to shoot it in the first place, so go over your script over and over, make sure it's as absolutely tight as it can get. You'll appreciate it, and your audience will appreciate it too!

 

[David Jimerson]

And, thorough pre-production and pre-visualization are absolutely vital. You do not have time to figure things out on set. You have to know exactly what you want to accomplish for each scene, each shot, before you get there.

Besides the time factor, a big part of keeping your unpaid crew motivated is the example you set. If you're flailing about unsure of what you want to do, your crew and cast will pick up on that vibe, and you'll start losing them.

 

[Brickhouse Media]

The short I'm working on only has two characters. They face off against a creature. I constructed the creature puppet and as I wrote the script I intentionally kept in mind the real-life personality of each actor in real life. The guy I have playing a landscaper actually is a landscaper with his own huge garden (free awesome set) and the mean old woman is being portrayed by my girlfriend's mom. With costume and makeup she has really taken on the role. My landscaper does a good enough job but for a while had a hard time not looking into the camera after a keeper take.

I had read that essentially casting people to play themselves can be effective. Not so much if your protagonist is from the planet Meepzork in the Crab Nebula.

 

[filmman]

A while back my doctor prescribed a pain killer for me. I didn't take it. I told him on my next visit. "I don't want to get addicted."

His whole face twisted up as he said, "Why do you want to suffer?"

We're all filmmakers and we get excited whenever someone says I'm going to make a movie, I have no money, but I'm going to do it anyway.

Well, you have been given some great advice. Good luck. Filmmaking is a great experience; follow your dreams.

http://www.releasing.net/gloria_swanson_sunset_boulevard.html

 

[Martay]

An hour is generally too long for a short, and too short for a feature, both from the perspectives of viewing and marketing -- and it won't even fit most festivals' requirements (though I don't claim to know the requirements of every festival out there, an hour-long film would not work for typical festvals' scheduling needs). Obviously, a feature is out of the question here, and you'll be saving yourself a lot of the hassle you're worrying about by trimming your schedule.

This is the first thing I thought about then saw a lot of good points related to the actors pay etc.

However, I agree that a 1 hour short is too long from both an end product standpoint (festivals like 15 minute short films so they can program more) as well as a production standpoint. You're already lacking funds to pay the actors so shooting 60 (I assume) pages on a "short" film is not helping your chances of a smooth production.

Also, have you broken the script down and set a schedule? How many shoot days? 6 months? there are about 48 weekend days in a six month period. Will you be shooting 48 days?

Shoot 5 pages a day (which isn't too daunting) and you're only talking about 12 days to shoot. That can be done in 1+ month.

That's more realistic to keep actors on board for than six months.

Also, if you do cut the script down and make it as tight as possible you can eliminate even more days.

Don't think of it in terms of months for now...think about it in terms of shoot days. Then schedule it appropriately and with the emphasis of completing it as soon as humanly possible. That's your best opportunity to complete it without having issues come up with actor's schedules or changing their appearance, etc.

Anyway, that's my take.

-M

 

[Belief Pictures]

I agree what Barry said. I shot a feature on a shoestring budget. Some I could afford to pay others I could not and it was a real mess. I could not recommend deferred payment contract in any form. Your cast will drive you nuts with the constant whining and complaining. I also agree beggars cannot be choosers.

 

[semila58]

Well, I can't sleep, so I thought I'd chime in here on a few points.

All of them are working for free... ...over the next (ever how many weekends it takes)...

It doesn't matter how many times you ask someone... ...they won't tell you no until its screwed up the production.

The best way to keep my actors in check...

We covered this at the audition hopefully... ...We asked if they planned to change their appearance in the next.. <insert months>... ...We didn't have anyone with issues, but you know how people are.

I want to pay my actors, but it will not happen until "I" make money. Its like a job...

If I budgeted paying every single crew member, and every single cast member up front. I would have to push back the film for another year or two.. and then between that time maybe I might even lose interest... ...actors are the flakiest human beings known to man.. second only to band members. Its hard to spot which ones are flaky, and it doesn't matter if you pay those or not.. they will still flake on you when they lose interest.

Paying people doesn't guarantee you anything.

I played more than 100 shows for free in one of the bands I was in... ...I honestly don't want you if all you care about is how much your going to get paid.... ...pay is really a minor issue... ...Maybe I should ask the actors to pay me to be in my movie.

...I'm not saying that there aren't quality actors who enjoy getting paid. I'm just stating that I can't work with people who have that attitude and do not want them, paid or not. I don't know how many have worked for "free", but... ...I can safely say I wouldn't be where I am now if I hadn't. Being picky doesn't help you move forward...

...My film is the equivalent of a birthday present...

...actors "should" get paid when it is applicable... ...But paying people doesn't make them any less flaky... ...It just means at the end of the day, they'll have more money in their pocket and you'll have less.

...we'll see if I have issues I suppose!

...People are lazy, and will be lazy regardless of anything you might do to keep them from being that way... ...because I can't pay people up front..

Thats more or less what I am getting at... ...My actors are worth every penny that I wish I could pay them,...

Here's my budget...
...Free
...Free
...Free
...Free
...free
...free
...Free
...Free
PA's x ever how many I happen to need = Free
Actors x 26 = Free until production is completed, providing meals, and a place to stay and gas money in some cases.
...Free
Food... ... Free or extremely low cost.
...Free
Wardrobe = 200.00 for sale Halloween costumes, 100.00 for whatever thrift shop items we can't provide ourselves from our own closets.
...Free
...Free
...Free
...Free
Hair Makeup = free = 3 local salons
Special effects = 1000.00 Friend supplies only.

Total: 1300.00

Probably some other stuff I could throw in, but we literally are getting nearly everything for free.

Just down the road from here, two brothers are on their 4th feature film... .. and as the films progressed, the production value got higher, and of course they are paying Kirk Cameron obviously.

PS. I'm not trying to come off as being condescending or anything... .. so I'm not sure why I chimed in anyway..lol

...there is definitely room for some oddballs who get lucky. Such as I...

I'm definitely not saying that you should just always expect to get everything for free... ...The same applies here I would think.

...The budget for it is there if I need it.

Everyone on the production has a "day job"... ...The only difference is, instead of sitting home or getting drunk on a Saturday or Sunday.. they will be busy working on a movie set instead...

...I'm not sure what else I've overlooked...

......

...I budgeted about 100.00 a day for food, if I wind up having to pay for any of it...

... The president of the chamber of commerce here is the bomb... ...if anyone deserves to get paid its her.

Oh, screw it, I have nothing to add. Goodnight.

S-

 

[filmman]

LOL > semila58 > well, let me say it then:

there has to be a financial incentive somewhere

somebody's got to make some money

 

[filmmaker1985]

I have just finished a three hour feature which I have spent three years making, and I can tell you for a fact that you don't know what you're talking about! I have put adverts on websites, in the press, including proffessional agencies such as spotlight, and I have over 200 people involved in the cast - 85 are proffessional actors, ie: people who normally get paid to work. It seems to me that it you have a good enough idea, drive, determination and enthusiasm then people will flock to you regardless of whether they're being paid or not. We also have a huge back up crew on top of all that. If you think this is bulls*it or I'm hyping it think again.

"Paying people doesn't guarantee you anything."
Then NOT paying them guarantees you even less.[/quote]

That's total crap!

You mention expenses: I'm not even paying their expenses either, LOL. Yes, that means no pay, no expenses, and if the film makes money you will get a share of the profits. I was astonished to have had a couple of major actors contact me to say they wanted to audition. When I asked them why as I wasn't paying anything, one of them told me their agent suggested they work on a project while they are between jobs, and they added that they liked my sales pitch! I am not Steven spielberg, just an ordinary guy like most people on this board. The only thing I have spent money on is equiptment and that's all.

Obvously it is impossible to state the exact amount of money people will get, but as you say it's extremely hard to make money, but the intention is there if it does. We cannot guarantee anything in this business, and most films indeed do lose money, but I do believe that we should share the profits if we do get anything out of it. Everybody also gets an imdb credit and food and drink on the days that the are working. Plus we all enjoy ourselves and have a laugh on set, which is also what it's all about and I, in turn help out on my colleagues films.

I must also add that I've only had problems with three actors who were difficult - out of over 200 people I'd say that's a pretty good percentage rate. To top all of this I have a couple of 'name' producers - {no I will not name them at this stage!} who have offered to help me promote the movie when it is complete. There are also five cinemas who have offered to show the film so far! I have achieved this though 45 minutes of edited footage. We have also been lucky to secure some excellent locations, which people on messageboards told us we would never stand a chance in getting - we asked anyway, and we got them. These include the police, hospital and ambulance services providing help to us!!! On top of this there are another 30+ businesses involved. I have secured these by selling the film idea in person and offering the companies credit at the end of the film and businesses have been extremely kind to help me out.

We have an excellent set of equipment, including excellent lighting which my local film school lent us for free. Granted we're not filming on panavision or HD, but we have a good quality digital camera. Also, just because there's hundreds of perfect, polished films in the industry it doesn't stop the majority of them being crap. I believe the expression "polishing a turd" is correct in this case.

I have no idea where all the negativity on this board is coming from, but in my experience it is extremely hard, and takes a long time without money, but if you have the motivation to lead a team people will have faith in you. Steven Spielberg managed it, so did Stanley Kubrick, David Lynch, John Landis, Sam Raimi. On the other hand, if you come across as unsure if you're project is any good then you will get nowhere, simple as that.

Saying that the project is NOT paid you are limiting yourself to work only with armatures as anyone that has done it long enough will ask for at least minimum wage. Thus you are closing a huge pool of potential talent, resources and experience.

"if the production makes money, YOU will make money"
this only means you have no experience on production with real money as if you did work on those you would know how hard it is to make money by selling your film afterwards. It's actually close to winning a lottery. In a way a filmmaker working on no budget productionm is shooting himself in the foot, but he doesn't do it only once, but 3 times. Fisrt by not raising any money he sets himself out to create a crappy production with crappy lighting, crappy camera, crappy acting, crappy locations, secondly by not raising any money he doesn't take a salary for himself and only stakes his luck on a lottery ticket of "what if i sell this film," third he hopes to sell a crappy production in a marketplace that is already saturated with quaility productions that those in turn have hard enough time to sell. Think about it, in the fundraising phase you at least could promise golden mountains and who knows maybe the stars would aligh perfectly and maybe you will win a lottery ticket by bringing the production to a succesffuf finish, but when you try to sell your no budget production when it gets done you are not selling dreams anymore but reality - and in 9999 out of 10,000 cases the reality is dreadfull.

"It doesn't list specific amounts, or anything else."
Then you are setting yourself up for a legal failure in case you do win that golden ticket.

"I have learned that actors are the flakiest human beings known to man"
Of course, because you are NOT PAYING THEM!

"Film making is an art form"
Only to the director. Any other position is mostly craft then art form. Thus you are asking your DP, editor, producer, etc to be a craftsman first before you are asking them to be artist. On top of that besides the few positions that do have some artistry to them there are tons of positions that is craft only.

"Paying people doesn't guarantee you anything."
Then NOT paying them guarantees you even less.

 

[Patryk_Rebisz]

"I have just finished a three hour feature which I have spent three years making"

Do i need to say more? If you spent half that time raising money, you would not only be done with that film long ago if it was any good you would be already on your second one.

Honestly without even seeing your film. If it was film made WITH money there is %99 chance that is sucks. And since you admit it was done WITHOUT money there is %9999 chance that is sucks. Yes, maybe you are the %0001 and your film is actually good, but really?

 

[Martay]

I have no idea where all the negativity on this board is coming from, but in my experience it is extremely hard, and takes a long time without money, but if you have the motivation to lead a team people will have faith in you.

I don't see most of the folks as negative per se. They're just weighing in on things from their perspectives.

3 hour film, and 3 years in the making are two precarious distinctions in my mind in terms of marketing but it does show dedication.

Good for you, there's nothing wrong with being determined and getting it done. However, there's nothing wrong with honest discussion either. Even if it can be perceived as not entirely encouraging.

Good luck with your film. Have you cut a trailer as yet? Would love to see it.

Martin

 

[Sneakle]

I'm in the middle of my self-financed, indie production, shooting mainly on weekends to not disturb my actors other jobs.; and I'm paying 100 bucks a day to these actors, and I gotta tell ya, it's not really enough to "hold people's attention" when you're trying to set your schedules. If I was paying them nothing or spec, this thing would take years to finish.

 

[Loki]

I have just finished a three hour feature which I have spent three years making, and I can tell you for a fact that you don't know what you're talking about! I have put adverts on websites, in the press, including proffessional agencies such as spotlight, and I have over 200 people involved in the cast - 85 are proffessional actors, ie: people who normally get paid to work. It seems to me that it you have a good enough idea, drive, determination and enthusiasm then people will flock to you regardless of whether they're being paid or not. We also have a huge back up crew on top of all that. If you think this is bulls*it or I'm hyping it think again.

"Paying people doesn't guarantee you anything."
Then NOT paying them guarantees you even less.

That's total crap!

You mention expenses: I'm not even paying their expenses either, LOL. Yes, that means no pay, no expenses, and if the film makes money you will get a share of the profits. I was astonished to have had a couple of major actors contact me to say they wanted to audition. When I asked them why as I wasn't paying anything, one of them told me their agent suggested they work on a project while they are between jobs, and they added that they liked my sales pitch! I am not Steven spielberg, just an ordinary guy like most people on this board. The only thing I have spent money on is equiptment and that's all.

Obvously it is impossible to state the exact amount of money people will get, but as you say it's extremely hard to make money, but the intention is there if it does. We cannot guarantee anything in this business, and most films indeed do lose money, but I do believe that we should share the profits if we do get anything out of it. Everybody also gets an imdb credit and food and drink on the days that the are working. Plus we all enjoy ourselves and have a laugh on set, which is also what it's all about and I, in turn help out on my colleagues films.

I must also add that I've only had problems with three actors who were difficult - out of over 200 people I'd say that's a pretty good percentage rate. To top all of this I have a couple of 'name' producers - {no I will not name them at this stage!} who have offered to help me promote the movie when it is complete. There are also five cinemas who have offered to show the film so far! I have achieved this though 45 minutes of edited footage. We have also been lucky to secure some excellent locations, which people on messageboards told us we would never stand a chance in getting - we asked anyway, and we got them. These include the police, hospital and ambulance services providing help to us!!! On top of this there are another 30+ businesses involved. I have secured these by selling the film idea in person and offering the companies credit at the end of the film and businesses have been extremely kind to help me out.

We have an excellent set of equipment, including excellent lighting which my local film school lent us for free. Granted we're not filming on panavision or HD, but we have a good quality digital camera. Also, just because there's hundreds of perfect, polished films in the industry it doesn't stop the majority of them being crap. I believe the expression "polishing a turd" is correct in this case.

I have no idea where all the negativity on this board is coming from, but in my experience it is extremely hard, and takes a long time without money, but if you have the motivation to lead a team people will have faith in you. Steven Spielberg managed it, so did Stanley Kubrick, David Lynch, John Landis, Sam Raimi. On the other hand, if you come across as unsure if you're project is any good then you will get nowhere, simple as that.

So when your film inevitably makes no money.. what then?

another 3 years of production?

It's not negativity..it's called reality. If the film is finished why can't you provide us a link to IMDB? or let us know who is in it?

I am getting some wafts of BS.

 

[Gary Huff]

Patryk, I agree with you 100% on everything you've said in this thread.

filmmaker1985's first post on this forum reeks of b.s.

 

[RockmanX3]

And the trick is... to have less people in your cast.