Archos AV500/AV700 -- Useful for P2 offloads?

Barry_Green

Moderator
Hey all, I just thought you might find this interesting. I'm using an Archos AV500, which you can read about here:
http://www.archos.com/

It's a portable, battery-powered music and video player and 100gb hard disk, about $600. Think "video ipod" but with more features and a much bigger 4" 16:9 screen. They also make an AV700, basically the same unit but with a 7" screen.

Anyway, the Archos has the ability to control the HVX through its USB2 port, and the Archos can actually offload an entire P2 card by itself! Normally you'd use the HVX as the "host" device, and the HVX can only offload to 1394/firewire drives. And, as many of us are finding to our frustration, there are no battery-powered firewire drives.

But the Archos is a battery-powered USB2 drive, and it has the ability to serve as host. So you can plug the Archos into the HVX's USB2 port, and the Archos brings up a file management system on its screen, and allows you to copy over the entire contents of a P2 card, by itself! Seems pretty cool. 100gb of portable field storage, for around $600. The battery lasts about 3-4 hours. The downside is that it takes over an hour to offload a 4gb card! Definitely not practical.

Assuming you still want to plunge ahead... You can't play the files back on the Archos' screen, but you CAN use the Archos as a little remote field monitor, sort of. The Archos is a digital video recorder with an a/v input jack, so if you connect that to the composite video port on the HVX, it'd let you monitor (and even record) the composite output. Can't see much purpose in recording the composite output, unless maybe the script supervisor wanted to use it for note-taking and continuity-checking maybe...

Another thing you could use the Archos-as-a-monitor for would be to use it as a flipped LCD for when you're using a G35 or M2 or Letus adapter. Just hold it upside down and you'll have a proper-angle viewscreen. And since it's a 16:9 monitor, you'll have proper aspect ratio too.

Now, I'm not recommending to anyone to go rush out and get an Archos specifically to use with the HVX (especially in light of the newly-verified 10-minute-per-megabyte copy speed!) But I am saying that if you were going to get a portable entertainment system like a video ipod, the Archos is one you'd definitely want to look at, because not only is it a superb entertainment system, but it also can be used in conjunction with the HVX to some degree. And if you are thinking about using it with an HVX, definitely get the 100gb model. They have 'em in 30gb, which is great for MP3's and MP4's, but for HVX offloading you'll really want the extra 70gb!

One note: it can't offload both card slots, it can only see slot 1. So if you want to offload two cards, you'd have to actually swap them and download each card from slot 1 or, eject from slot 1 -- then it'll see slot 2. Certainly no big drawback, especially since I hadn't expected it to work at all! :)

Also, make sure to download the latest Archos firmware. When I got my Archos it was version 1.1, which didn't allow for copying complete directory structures over. The version of the OS on their site as of Dec. 14 2005 is version 1.3, which does allow for full directory copying.
 
Ah !!! so you still have the HVX !!!

heh heh...thanks ! that's cool !

EDIT: is the LCD's image quality good enough to judge focus, grayscale and colors ?
Can it be calibrated ?
 
I don't know whether the LCD is good enough for color or grayscale, and there is no calibration that I've found other than brightness -- but I'm hardly the end-all know-all of the Archos either. I would certainly not expect it to be in any way useful for judging focus; it's something like a 480x300 LCD after all, and you'd be getting the signal into it through composite, so no, in no way useful for focus. The only monitoring I would think you'd find it useful for would be upside-down framing for G35-style usage, or perhaps as a remote recorder for script supervisor purposes.

I'm retesting the file copy right now. I originally thought six minutes, but now I'm starting to doubt that...

Also, apparently it WILL see slot 2, if there's nothing loaded in slot one. So you wouldn't have to actually eject and swap the cards, you'd just eject slot 1 and then it'll see slot 2...
 
Thanks for the report on the Archos! My friend has had one for years on his steadicam to have a quick playback of shots, without having to rewind tape or wait for video village.

A few quick questions.. Did you copy each files or clone the entire P2 card to the Archos? Were you able transfer the data back to the P2 card from the Archos? How long to clone a totally full 4GB card?

I.
 
Ahh, Barry Wan...

May the Force is with You !

Forgive me , a few questions,
but it seems with just a little noodling, it might capture the DVCPro stream off the HVX ?
if it would record the analogue output , what form would this be..? ...Uncompressed?

I have been going on in these forums about trying to configure an managable Powerbook solution for Monitor/Recording device/ Direct recording device...
So this is VERY good news.
it may not be perfect, but it means that by the time most of us get our hands on the HVX there will be a variety of solutions to choose from.
Cheers,


J
 
Okay, well, there's good news and there's bad news.

Unfortunately this post only contains the second type... :)

Seems my initial estimate of "6 minutes" to copy a card might have been a little optimistic.

By about an order of magnitude.

Don't know what I was thinking -- I must have copied an individual file and thought that I'd done a card. Because in this controlled test I filled a 4gb card to capacity and told it to copy over. So far it's been an hour, and it's still copying.

Definitely not practical.

Oh well. Seems like the Archos has a pig-slow drive in it, obviously optimized for battery life and not for speed (which is understandable, the device works fabulously for playing back MP4 videos, it was never intended to be an HVX offload device!)

Could the drive be swapped with something fast, like the Seagate Momentus? Maybe, I don't know... but if you did, I strongly suspect that the battery life would plummet.

So -- close, but no cigar. It's just not practical. It's good for a candy cigarette, I guess, but not an actual cigar. Sorry to get people's hopes up!
 
Illya Friedman said:
A few quick questions.. Did you copy each files or clone the entire P2 card to the Archos?
The newest version of the firmware lets you copy the entire contents of the "CONTENTS" directory off the card, so that's what I'm doing now.

Were you able transfer the data back to the P2 card from the Archos?
Don't know -- I'll let you know when it's finished.

How long to clone a totally full 4GB card?
See my post above. That's the bad news. I originally thought it was 6 minutes, but now I find that it's actually over 60. So it's not really practical at all. Initial optimism has faded, inevitably to be replaced with jaded cynicism. :cry:
 
Update -- it took 68 minutes.

By comparison, the same card transferred through the same USB2 cable to my laptop computer in under 5 minutes. And that's with a 5400RPM drive, not even a speedy 7200rpm drive.

So a laptop is an infinitely superior system to use to offload P2 cards from. Not that we didn't know that already, but just letting you know the full spectrum.
 
You might not know, but -
Why is the Archos such a slow copier? Is it still that slow when plugged in? If it's trying to preserve battery life, maybe you could use it as a battery-powered monitor and then plug in (if there are plugs) for the file-copying part?
 
It sounds like the transfer's happening at USB 1.1 speeds (12 Mb/s). By my calculations, it would take about 55 minutes to transfer 4 GB of data, assuming an average speed of 10 Mb/s.

USB 2.0 is available in two styles. "Full Speed" runs at 12 Mb/s like USB 1.1. "Hi-Speed" runs at 480 Mb/s, comparable to FireWire 400. So, maybe one of the devices on supports USB 1.1 or USB 2.0 "Full Speed"?
 
Barry_Green said:
And, as many of us are finding to our frustration, there are no battery-powered firewire drives.

What's up with that?

You know, I had a few battery powered drive enclosures bookmarked, and now find that none of the links are active, or have been changed. What happened to all the 2.5" lith-ion battery powered enclosures??

Was the basic design faulty on some level?

Very frustrating!

I supposed the next best thing is an enclosure that can take 5Volts DC from an AC adaptor and replace the adaptor with your custom made battery pack or something like this...

http://www.bixnet.com/hicamiexbapa.html

Thoughs? Someone have a better solution?

Regards,

Jim Arthurs
 
Is it possible to use bus powered combo drive enclosures, get power from usb, transfer through firewire, or just wishful thinking?
 
King Chung Huang said:
USB 2.0 is available in two styles. "Full Speed" runs at 12 Mb/s like USB 1.1. "Hi-Speed" runs at 480 Mb/s, comparable to FireWire 400. So, maybe one of the devices on supports USB 1.1 or USB 2.0 "Full Speed"?
That's possible. There are two USB ports on the Archos, one for "device mode" and one for "host mode". The "device mode" port is most definitely USB2; I guess it's possible that the "host mode" port is USB1 only...
 
Is it possible to use bus powered combo drive enclosures, get power from usb, transfer through firewire, or just wishful thinking?
No bus-power from the HVX is available, in either USB or Firewire modes.
 
So how about this scenerio for in the field dumping... buy 2.5" drive such as this...

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1173249

Put it into an enclosure that can take external 5volt power like this;

http://www.dvvideo.com/shop/storage/buyEnclosurePortable.htm
or this...
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=876433&CatId=0

Then power it with the portable battery pack I mentioned a couple posts up...

http://www.bixnet.com/hicamiexbapa.html

And you're good to go, right? Am I missing something, or is it just this easy? Less than 250 dollars for 100gig in-field backup, good for many, many sequential dumps from the P2 card.

Maybe even cheaper if someone wants to kludge up their own power supply...


Jim Arthurs
 
That would probably work. I would make sure of two things though -- make sure that your enclosure uses the fastest chipset (I think that's Oxford 911, not sure) and get a fast drive. A fast drive makes all the difference. The Seagate Momentus and the Hitachi TravelStars are the fastest that I think I've seen tested on tomshardwareguide, both are supposed to move around 30mB/sec, or over twice as fast as "realtime"; ostensibly you could offload a 4gb card in around 2 minutes to one of those.
 
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