Apple the iPhone 12 Pro Max with ProRAW photos, LiDar and Dolby HDR

[ahalpert]

I shot a wedding yesterday and noticed how both the photographer and I were buzzing around the ceremony, using multiple cameras to cover it from a variety of angles, and I realized that the iPhone will never have a meaningful impact on shooting weddings. Even if it got so good that we were both using iPhones instead, they would still need experienced shooters because you can't reposition the camera in post even if you could reframe, refocus etc.

Plus, when you're spending tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars creating a spectacle, it makes no sense to skimp on its documentation. Just like in narrative film and TV.

I think talking heads is the type of shooting most vulnerable to iPhone replacement because the basic need - a steady, focused, exposed shot of a person - could be handled by an amateur with a really good iPhone with minimal direction. It wont be as good but it will be good enough. And even then there are still documentaries and such with a higher aesthetic bar that will shoot proper interviews with consistent lightings.

So, the bad news is that a lot of talking heads shooting will go away. The good news is that much of that shift has already transpired. I have some clients who shoot a steady stream of web content on their webcams and only call me in for something nice. I've directed remote iPhone interview shoots over Facetime and edited the footage after receiving it through the cloud. You have TV news guests piping in via webcam. I dont think that iPhones are going to make as much further of an impact as some people think, and that's even before discussing the inherent sensitivity advantages of larger sensors and fast lenses.

Additionally - I read a lot of chatter online about how the broader public is underwhelmed by the latest iPhone releases. So, it's possible that Apple will have a diminishing incentive to continue amping up the imaging power.

 

[Jim Feeley]

Additionally - I read a lot of chatter online about how the broader public is underwhelmed by the latest iPhone releases. So, it's possible that Apple will have a diminishing incentive to continue amping up the imaging power.

Don't know. This is early days, and it looks like the info in this article comes from one analyst (who apparently has a good track record), but here's a CNBC article:

Apple’s first-day preorders for iPhone 12 surpassed the iPhone 11, top analyst says


I for one, already ordered an iPhone 12 Pro. But I did because I want 5G... The newer/better camera didn't drive my purchase decision... I'd guess that's the same for most people: A nice camera will be fun, but the cameras in the last few generations of smartphones have been fine for snapshots and home video.... but 5G, that will occasionally be helpful.

But maybe I'm misreading you or haven't been paying attention. What do you mean about the broader public being underwhelmed?


And as for talking-head video, as I mentioned earlier in this string, services/apps like OpenReel are pretty interesting and I think you're right, they will take away some more talking-head work. A friend worked with footage acquired through OpenReel on a recent 2nd-tier awards show (ie- a real awards show with a good budget, but not the Emmys). He said: Not perfect, but considering covid, etc the results were pretty decent.

"Patented tech lets you capture and direct video remotely. Replace user generated or low quality streaming audio & video with HD footage."
https://www.openreel.com

 

[ahalpert]

. What do you mean about the broader public being underwhelmed?

]

I've just read posts and tweets indicating that people dont realize how much firepower is being added under the hood. They focus on lenses and number of cameras, some basic specs. Maybe it doesn't matter because if they can start relighting and refocusing images, they will quickly grasp the power.

I'm sure the phone will sell like hot cakes. But it may not make sense to eventually keep adding features that only professional photographers would appreciate. Or I could be wrong.

 

[NorBro]

The transition to full-time phone filmmaking will take time.

But once Apple/Google/Samsung or anyone else offers better IQ and shallow DOF, 99% of mirrorless cameras are finished overnight.

Seriously, if the results are the same or close enough, what is the point of anyone using other cameras besides the 1%? (for various reasons)

Would anyone here really consider another camera if they can get R5/a7SIII quality on their phones?

That's the whole point. And if it doesn't come then nothing changes. But if it does, it's over.

___

I searched "iPhone Wedding' on YouTube and the following was a top result. Now picture this with non-GoPro looking IQ and shallow DOF with a nice zoom lens and you literally cannot get one of these future devices soon enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XIMwjnjbFc&t

 

[ahalpert]

I searched "iPhone Wedding' on YouTube and the following was a top result. Now picture this with non-GoPro looking IQ and shallow DOF with a nice zoom lens and you literally cannot get one of these future devices soon enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XIMwjnjbFc&t

The point is not that you can't shoot a wedding with an iPhone. The point is that you still need a good operator, hence I will still get hired. What makes that video good is the operation and composition and conceptualization.

But there were no low-light samples in that. If you can't shoot ISO 12800 f/1.4 equivalent exposure, you can't shoot the dim scenes without lighting them and altering the mood. I dont think that small sensor small lens cameras will achieve parity.

And part of the equation is relative cost. If it costs you $1500 for a basic iPhone package but $4000 for the equivalent mirrorless camera/lens package (at which point you still need rigs and support and audio, etc), you may not be saving that much money. If you can get a better product with the real camera, you will still buy the real camera.

 

[NorBro]

When software included on every device you own optimizes your clips (for better or for worse...but mostly better), it won't matter.

Or maybe event filming changes. Maybe in the future joining a cloud in an area will become as normal as muting your phone, and people will be able to grab clips of your wedding and the clips will automatically be uploaded to an AI editing service which produces a highlights video as the day goes on.

You have to think about the future as a technological intellectual; not as a fearful 2020 videographer thinking everyone's a grandma or grandpa from 1950 who won't be able to learn basic operating skills.

Think about Generation Z whom are born with phones in their hands and are creating applications and services and websites and are beyond technically inclined than any other humans before.

As far as low-light...it's of little concern for most. It will be solve one way or another. Better NR or even AI noise replacement.

 

[Guest]

Norbro, double posting the same post... proof he is AI, or a time traveler that can exist in two times or places simultaneously?

 

[NorBro]

ha, I double-post (then delete) probably 99 out of every 100 posts because I type 140 WPM and sometimes I have typos/grammatical errors and it's too late to change anything before the "Last edited by..." notice, which I think is obnoxious (but necessary).

 

[Run&Gun]

I didn't order a 12 Pro. I had it sitting there a few times on Best Buy's site and went ahead and found the case I like on Amazon(new version of what I have on my 11 Pro), but didn't pull the trigger on either. I normally pre-order the new iPhones, but I'm gonna wait and see what the initial real world reviews are like. I loved my X and still love my 11 Pro, but I'm not getting the "Wow" vibe off of the 12 Pro, yet. And 5G has VERY limited availability and coverage right now, so I doubt I would see any benefits from that in the near term.

 

[ahalpert]

When software included on every device you own optimizes your clips (for better or for worse...but mostly better), it won't matter.

Or maybe event filming changes. Maybe in the future joining a cloud in an area will become as normal as muting your phone, and people will be able to grab clips of your wedding and the clips will automatically be uploaded to an AI editing service which produces a highlights video as the day goes on.

You have to think about the future as a technological intellectual; not as a fearful 2020 videographer thinking everyone's a grandma or grandpa from 1950 who won't be able to learn basic operating skills.

Think about Generation Z whom are born with phones in their hands and are creating applications and services and websites and are beyond technically inclined than any other humans before.

As far as low-light...it's of little concern for most. It will be solve one way or another. Better NR or even AI noise replacement.

Let me get this straight - you think people will crowdsource wedding videos from what their guests cobble together? Meaning they'll be telling their guests to film during the ceremony instead of to put away their phones? And nobody will be recording a feed from close mics? Aside from the particular set-ups that photographers and videographers arrange during the rest of the day?

People are already doing this with twitter or instagram hashtags. and it does not replace proper documentation. I do not think you're being realistic

 

[ahalpert]

I didn't order a 12 Pro. I had it sitting there a few times on Best Buy's site and went ahead and found the case I like on Amazon(new version of what I have on my 11 Pro), but didn't pull the trigger on either. I normally pre-order the new iPhones, but I'm gonna wait and see what the initial real world reviews are like. I loved my X and still love my 11 Pro, but I'm not getting the "Wow" vibe off of the 12 Pro, yet. And 5G has VERY limited availability and coverage right now, so I doubt I would see any benefits from that in the near term.

Do you get the wow vibe from your current phone? Are you saying the new ones are worse or just that they haven't improved?

 

[Guest]

ha, I double-post (then delete) probably 99 out of every 100 posts because I type 140 WPM and sometimes I have typos/grammatical errors and it's too late to change anything before the "Last edited by..." notice, which I think is obnoxious (but necessary).

Haha! 140wpm is impressive! I get close to 10wpm, and I still have typos. And yeah, that yellow edited note at the bottom is ugly, bothers me too. but have had to get used to it. lol.

 

[Guest]

I didn't order a 12 Pro. I had it sitting there a few times on Best Buy's site and went ahead and found the case I like on Amazon(new version of what I have on my 11 Pro), but didn't pull the trigger on either. I normally pre-order the new iPhones, but I'm gonna wait and see what the initial real world reviews are like. I loved my X and still love my 11 Pro, but I'm not getting the "Wow" vibe off of the 12 Pro, yet. And 5G has VERY limited availability and coverage right now, so I doubt I would see any benefits from that in the near term.

It feels like the iPhone cycle gets faster every year. haha. but I guess that is just me getting older.

 

[NorBro]

Let me get this straight - you think people will crowdsource wedding videos from what their guests cobble together? Meaning they'll be telling their guests to film during the ceremony instead of to put away their phones? And nobody will be recording a feed from close mics? Aside from the particular set-ups that photographers and videographers arrange during the rest of the day?

People are already doing this with twitter or instagram hashtags. and it does not replace proper documentation. I do not think you're being realistic

Well, it's easy to pick the one moment in a church where that could be frowned upon but it doesn't change the overall point.

It was just a random example; there are dozens of way things can change in the future that will change what proper documentation is.

That's what I'm trying to get you/anyone to think about and open that noggin up a little bit.

Proper documentation of a wedding in 1980 was one videographer with a 30 pound camera on his/her shoulder with a light running off a battery pack around the waist.

 

[ahalpert]

Well, it's easy to pick the one moment in a church where that could be frowned upon but it doesn't change the overall point.

It was just a random example; there are dozens of way things can change in the future that will change what proper documentation is.

That's what I'm trying to get you/anyone to think about and open that noggin up a little bit.

Proper documentation of a wedding in 1980 was one videographer with a 30 pound camera on his/her shoulder with a light running off a belt pack. Maybe two if you were wealthy.

People don't ask them to put away their phones to respect the church. They ask them to do it so they'll be present in an unmediated social moment. 75%+ of the weddings I shoot are not in churches.

What would have to change would be customer demand. They would need to require a different style video or no produced video at all. That could easily happen irrespective of technological changes.

The point is that amateurs with iPhones - especially if they're not even dedicated to filming the event - cannot reproduce the shot styles and selections no matter how easy the camera makes it to focus, expose, and stabilize

 

[NorBro]

The point is that amateurs with iPhones - especially if they're not even dedicated to filming the event - cannot reproduce the shot styles and selections no matter how easy the camera makes it to focus, expose, and stabilize

Only in your world because you think it's a difficult task (or somehow can't be learned or improved upon).

 

[Run&Gun]

Do you get the wow vibe from your current phone? Are you saying the new ones are worse or just that they haven't improved?

Yes, I thought the 11 Pro was pretty impressive and that's why I got it(pre-ordered), even though the X was already pretty darn good. I'm not saying the 12 Pro will be worse by any stretch, but I don't think(without seeing it or seeing real world reviews) that it is as big of an improvement over the 11 Pro, as the 11 Pro was over the X. Yes, the lidar is cool, and it may give big benefits, but most of the rest of the phone, so far, just seems evolutionary. But I may be wrong and if so, I'll get one and not have a problem admitting I underestimated it initially.

 

[ahalpert]

Only in your world because you think it's a difficult task (or somehow can't be learned or improved upon).

???

It can be both learned and improved upon. I learned it. And in some ways am improving on the idiom.

But cousin Ray is not going to show up with his fancy new iPhone and know how to move a camera, what shots the edit requires, the pitfalls of covering a ceremony and reception... he might feel awkward and uncertain inserting himself in the necessary but socially awkward places required to stand. and hes probably going to want to get drunk.

I'm really not sure what you're saying here. That they'll be able to find a fresh college grad with an iPhone to do it for a pittance? Experience counts, bro. What is your bread and butter, by the way? Conferences? You have an odd take. Have you ever filmed a wedding?

 

[NorBro]

All I'm saying is open up your noggin...that's all.

Don't use current expectations and formulas and technology to predict what the future could be like (which you appear to do a lot based off random "realizations") without also envisioning other possibilities.

And I filmed dozens when I was younger. Very simple work if you have any sort of integrity at all.

 

[ahalpert]

All I'm saying is open up your noggin...that's all.

Don't use current expectations and formulas and technology to predict what the future could be like (which you appear to do a lot based off random "realizations") without also envisioning other possibilities.

And I filmed dozens when I was younger. Very simple work if you have any sort of integrity at all.

...ok.

All I'm saying is that buying an iPhone will not magically allow a person to shoot a wedding video like the iPhone video you showed. iPhone advances can solve issues of exposure, focus, framing, stability, and possibility sensitivity. If not knowing how to do those things properly is all that stands in the way of getting the shot, then an iPhone could enable an amateur or a producer or a PA to get the shot. But if you are called upon to create a shot instead of simply documenting something, it's another matter.