Apple built Final Cut Pro 8 (64bit), then scrapped it???

Brian, I started with tape to tape editing and beta cam, in my teens, and my first all digital project was miniDV into Media100! I recall the system had a staggering 90GB hard drive tower. 9x10GB array.
 
yoclay said:
The problem is they set up a whole set of expectations by inviting a ton of professionals to an event and then later delivered a product which could not possibly meet the needs of those people in the room. I have never seen a company so completely destroy a market for themselves in such a short period of time.
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I totally agree that Apple majorly screwed up. If they had just added "Beta" when they released FCPX & posted a FAQ with the features they're already working on that will be released later, I think things would've been extremely different.

In 5 years, when all the dust settles, I think this really should be a case study for any business major. I really would like to see a study in a couple years of the long term effects of FCPX on Apple, Avid & Adobe. This story isn't over yet.

mico said:
I still use fcp 7. Its still useful. But there will be no upgrades for it and things change in the video world constantly and we need an app that adapts. … Better to bite the bullet and change now rather than later.
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Why? I say change when you need to change. A Sony BWV-D600 is an expensive door stop & no longer getting the high end jobs it used to. While the even older Sennheiser MHK416 is still a very good microphone that is widely used.

mico said:
Has Apple, which I am a fan of, showed or said anything to disprove this.
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Apple is responding, the free trial already shows that they've seen the mess they've created. They've already delivered XML & Xsan support, & on the FCPX page it has "Coming in 2012" "Multicam Editing & Broadcast-Quality Video Monitoring." There are things we're not going to get, but I have more faith that FCPX will become a professional tool again, than the Cubs winning the world series.
 
I think Premiere and FCP will swap places in regards to the respect they are afforded for professional use.
 
If Premiere functioned more like FCP I would use it...LOL

Premiere has some weird conventions. On a MAC it crashes a lot.

FCP crashes maybe once a month? And I use it every day.
 
zijital said:
I totally agree that Apple majorly screwed up. If they had just added "Beta" when they released FCPX & posted a FAQ with the features they're already working on that will be released later, I think things would've been extremely different.

In 5 years, when all the dust settles, I think this really should be a case study for any business major. I really would like to see a study in a couple years of the long term effects of FCPX on Apple, Avid & Adobe. This story isn't over yet.



Why? I say change when you need to change. A Sony BWV-D600 is an expensive door stop & no longer getting the high end jobs it used to. While the even older Sennheiser MHK416 is still a very good microphone that is widely used.



Apple is responding, the free trial already shows that they've seen the mess they've created. They've already delivered XML & Xsan support, & on the FCPX page it has "Coming in 2012" "Multicam Editing & Broadcast-Quality Video Monitoring." There are things we're not going to get, but I have more faith that FCPX will become a professional tool again, than the Cubs winning the world series.
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I am an avid FCp fan as well as an apple fan. No way I'm ever going to change operating systems. I still use FCP 7 because I am used to it but I recently bought Avid media composer because of their discount. I always wanted to learn it anyway and this was a good time so I did change.

If Apple shows me that they are committed to supporting pro features in all their products I will jump back to FCP in a second. This is not adobe or avid screaming the sky is falling because, one I never heard a peep from them, and because adobe did a similar thing to me years ago by abandoning the Mac OS platform for 4 years.

I just don't get the sense Apple cares as much about the pro market as they once did. The iphone and ipad seemed to have changed their approach. Like I said in a previous post I have hopes for FCP but the way they went about this just doesn't make any sense to me regarding support of a pro market. It was never about the fear of change it was the way they coldly did it and stopped selling fcp 7 until the outcry. Its like Apple told us we're moving in a new direction get over your old FCP fixation with this new interface but you won't have all the functionality you had as with the old version. How was that approach going to instill as sense of security in, what they knew, was a large user base. Why would this user base accept less functionality after so many years. In the coming years I hope Apple proves me wrong and I've got media composer as backup..
 
I'm an avid FCP fan... classic line...

I think we have to come to terms that Apple has abandoned the professional market and stick with what makes them money... consumer products... sad for us and probably good for them..

As I see it Apple would prefer not to sell computers as such... they are moving in a new direction and Towers / Laptops / iMacs are not in that direction...

I reckon that we should create a user group and buy the Apple Pro Division and manage the programs for the users by the users...

It could be a whole new model of software creation and management... the software company would be owned by the users and the development would be for the users..

As a business model you would purchase the software which would entitle you to become a stakeholder of the company and then pay yearly subscription service...

Just a thought... but think if it we had 50,000 users / stakeholders it would be a significant organization with allot of power...

Cheers

LeZ
 
I love Final Cut Pro 7. I got Final Cut Pro X and was extremely disappointed. I would be very happy if Apple continued to make Final Cut the way it was in Final Cut Pro 7.
 
Final Cut Pro X is not as capable as Final Cut 7 or Premiere CS5, but it has a lot of great things going on under the hood. Assuming that Apple isn't lying and is working on bringing things like multi-cam back into the fold, I don't see why in a few years it can't be just as good as the other industry standards. I don't really care if is #1 or whatever, those kinds of dickwaving contests don't interest me and if a tool is good then I will use it.
 
It's been said a bunch of times already in this thread. Apple no longer cares about the pro market. They've gotten huge and incredibly profitable in the consumer electronics space, and that's where their future is. The iPod Touch probably brings in more revenue in a quarter than all of the professional products combined in a year. When CS5 came out FCP was a couple years behind the curve. Logic is going in the same direction. Don't be surprised when they drop the Mac Pro and continue to "consumerize" the laptop lines. FCPX is a product that Apple wants to sell in their retail stores to wealthy hobbyists and the Neiman Marcus crowd. They want to put phones in our pockets, not tools in our hands. Let's just all be grateful that Microsoft did such a great job with Windows 7, Adobe did such a great job with CS5, Avid seems to have finally started taking little independent operations and small-market and/or low-budget freelancers seriously as a viable market, and the ecosystem of production-centric software developers is healthier than ever. It's a great time to be in media, even if Apple isn't going to be a major player going forward.
 
stefancolson said:
It's been said a bunch of times already in this thread. Apple no longer cares about the pro market. They've gotten huge and incredibly profitable in the consumer electronics space, and that's where their future is. The iPod Touch probably brings in more revenue in a quarter than all of the professional products combined in a year. When CS5 came out FCP was a couple years behind the curve. Logic is going in the same direction. Don't be surprised when they drop the Mac Pro and continue to "consumerize" the laptop lines. FCPX is a product that Apple wants to sell in their retail stores to wealthy hobbyists and the Neiman Marcus crowd. They want to put phones in our pockets, not tools in our hands. Let's just all be grateful that Microsoft did such a great job with Windows 7, Adobe did such a great job with CS5, Avid seems to have finally started taking little independent operations and small-market and/or low-budget freelancers seriously as a viable market, and the ecosystem of production-centric software developers is healthier than ever. It's a great time to be in media, even if Apple isn't going to be a major player going forward.
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I hear that. I think I am on my last Apple Computer. It is sad for me.
 
I bought a bunch of $100 dollar app store giftcards from people who get them in the 'back to school' promotion and used them to get FCPX, Compressor, amd Motion all for ~$280-300.

I have no regrets buying them. It's a pretty cool suite that has a lot of potential to get a lot better.

I don't hate the new workflow, but don't love it yet either.

There are some REALLLLY nice features in FCPX and I see those continuing to blossom. I also love the third party support. Independent developers are giving people the features they're craving in FCPX and I see it getting even better with apple updates.

Wasn't FCP 1 a dog? I wasn't into editing when it did, but I think I recall it not getting to the point of being taken seriously until version 3 or so right?


I've used Avid, I use premiere cs5.5 at work and have fcp7 and fcpx at home.

I do love what cs5.5 has done, it pretty much IS final cut.

I don't like the color correction though...
 
Brian, I started with tape to tape editing and beta cam, in my teens, and my first all digital project was miniDV into Media100! I recall the system had a staggering 90GB hard drive tower. 9x10GB array.
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You just explained my exact same experience as a 24yo. First learned to edit tape to tape with beta. then the first NLE system was media 100 on a mac. a whopping 196mhz processor and less than 100mb of ram. :)
 
mico said:
This is not adobe or avid screaming the sky is falling because, one I never heard a peep from them, and because adobe did a similar thing to me years ago by abandoning the Mac OS platform for 4 years.
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I don't think Avid or Adobe did anything that was ethically questionable, but 100% they took advantage of the situation, as most business people will. It is a competitive market & when FCP users started screaming "the sky is falling!!!" Avid & Adobe responded by "Come over to our house, we have a strong roof over our head & you'll be safe with us."

mico said:
Its like Apple told us we're moving in a new direction get over your old FCP fixation with this new interface but you won't have all the functionality you had as with the old version. How was that approach going to instill as sense of security in, what they knew, was a large user base. Why would this user base accept less functionality after so many years. In the coming years I hope Apple proves me wrong and I've got media composer as backup.
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It only installs security if you live in crazy land & believe Apple can do no wrong. But Apple really screwed up & only time will tell if they fix it.

Apple took away the express card slot on the MBP 15" & then introduced Thunderbolt which offers the potential of more expandability & flexibility than an express slot. Still I wish they had waited until a bunch of Thunderbolt accessories were on the market before stripping the only way to expand a MBP. But Apple does what Apple wants to do on the timeline that Apple wants.

Here is to keeping my fingers crossed about the future of FCP.
 
mico said:
If Apple shows me that they are committed to supporting pro features in all their products I will jump back to FCP in a second.
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I think you'll get your answer with what they do with the Mac Pro. If they introduce new screaming-powerful desktops for pro users, then that will be a good indication of how they feel about the pro market.
If they drop the Mac Pro entirely, that also will send a very clear message about how they feel about continuing to support the pro market.

My guess is that we've seen the last of the Mac Pro. It may get one more refresh, but after that, it's gone. Apple has said clearly and definitively "we are a mobile products company." Desktop computers aren't mobile; I bet we'll see them outsource expandability onto the end of a thunderbolt cable, and therefore decide that an expandable pro chassis no longer fits in with their vision.

I just don't get the sense Apple cares as much about the pro market as they once did. The iphone and ipad seemed to have changed their approach.
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Absolutely agreed.

Steve Jobs' philosophy was highly focused, minimalist approaches -- they don't want to be in a thousand different businesses, they want to focus tightly on what they do well, and minimize everything else. And the Apple of today is not "Apple Computer Inc", it's "Apple Inc". It's a mobile products company. It's about iPods and iTunes and iPads and iPhones and Macbooks and the cloud... if anything doesn't fall into that particular vision, I wouldn't be placing long-term bets on Apple continuing to be interested in it.

Its like Apple told us we're moving in a new direction get over your old FCP fixation with this new interface but you won't have all the functionality you had as with the old version. How was that approach going to instill as sense of security in, what they knew, was a large user base.
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But that's what Apple does. They decide what they're going to make, they make it, they push it out there, and people complain -- and then they buy it and they love it. Look at the launch of the iPad -- when that was first introduced people screamed and howled about it, thought it was the biggest joke, and we saw endless people saying "who is this for? Who would want this? Why would you want this?" Apple did it anyway -- and it's one of their biggest hits. They also did that to us with discontinuing the floppy drive... and the CardBus slot... and the PCMCIA slot... and Firewire 400... so now they've discontinued the old FCP and said, yes, "get over yourself and use the new thing we made, you'll like it." That is their attitude, it's always been their attitude. And it's been very successful for them, so (in their view) why should they change?

I know there's folks who will have differing opinions, and that's fine, time will tell how this all plays out. I just think the pro user base are in disbelief that after six years of marriage, Apple is dumping the old wife (pro users) and trading "up" to a new wife (iTunes and iPads and iPhones). It feels like betrayal, it feels like abandonment, there's shock and disbelief and all that... and yet -- things are what they are. Apple's in love with their new wife, since getting together with her they've become the biggest tech company in the world, and briefly the biggest company in the world of all types, even bigger than Exxon Mobile.

So, yeah, we'll see how things play out with the Mac Pro. If, as I suspect, there is no refreshing of the Mac Pro and it's discontinued, that will tell you pretty much everything you need to know.
 
Barry_Green said:
But that's what Apple does. They decide what they're going to make, they make it, they push it out there, and people complain -- and then they buy it and they love it. Look at the launch of the iPad -- when that was first introduced people screamed and howled about it, thought it was the biggest joke, and we saw endless people saying "who is this for? Who would want this? Why would you want this?" Apple did it anyway -- and it's one of their biggest hits. They also did that to us with discontinuing the floppy drive... and the CardBus slot... and the PCMCIA slot... and Firewire 400... so now they've discontinued the old FCP and said, yes, "get over yourself and use the new thing we made, you'll like it." That is their attitude, it's always been their attitude. And it's been very successful for them, so (in their view) why should they change?

I know there's folks who will have differing opinions, and that's fine, time will tell how this all plays out. I just think the pro user base are in disbelief that after six years of marriage, Apple is dumping the old wife (pro users) and trading "up" to a new wife (iTunes and iPads and iPhones). It feels like betrayal, it feels like abandonment, there's shock and disbelief and all that... and yet -- things are what they are. Apple's in love with their new wife, since getting together with her they've become the biggest tech company in the world, and briefly the biggest company in the world of all types, even bigger than Exxon Mobile.
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While overall I agree, not everything Apple does turns to gold. The one button mouse is gone for good, the Apple III, the Hockey Puck Mouse, the Cube, Pippin and a few others.

The thing that concerns me about the consumer market is that it is much more susceptible to trends and fads. (Granted the pro market has there own as well, but quite a bit more stable.) How many Prosumer/Consumer software come and go with the blink of an eye? For all we know the next great mobile phone will make the iPhone take same path as the Razor.
 
That's possible, of course, but I think Apple's approach is to create such an integrated system that you wouldn't want to step outside of it. So while an individual component (such as the phone) might be better than the iPhone itself, Apple's counting on you still using iTunes, still sync'ing to your iMac, still using your iPad, etc... and then it's not so much of a case of one component being better than another, but would someone want to disrupt the whole system? Apple fans certainly give reason to Apple to believe this; earlier in this thread Mico said "No way am I ever going to change operating systems." How many Apple fans say the same thing? And if you can take that loyalty for granted, and build a web of products around it, then you probably insulate yourself pretty well from the risk that any one component will fall to competition.

As for other things Apple did that failed, let's not forget their first stab at the iPad, the Newton... so yes, obviously they can occasionally really tank it, but overall when looking at why they're so arrogant, the reason is because in general, it's worked out well for them. Of course, pendulums do swing both ways, it'll be interesting to see what the future brings; exponential growth doesn't continue forever...
 
This a bit off topic but I absolutely do not get the iTunes. It locks u into not being able to play it or copy outside of apple. My car stereo plays mpegs and wavs but for iTunes u gottaa play using a Mac product and the phone Jack. So many products apple does not play with. Flash..blueray..car stereos...like Barry says I guess. So u become a Mac fan who lives in their world only. :)
 
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The newton is an interesting one Barry. If a PC company had come out with it or Palm it would have been a lot bigger. Apple in the public eye was tiny then. Nothing touch a Newton for years......... oh but apple has had some great flops!

I just read that Apple is the biggest PC make if the iPad is a PC..............
 
Barry_Green said:
But that's what Apple does. They decide what they're going to make, they make it, they push it out there, and people complain -- and then they buy it and they love it. Look at the launch of the iPad -- when that was first introduced people screamed and howled about it, thought it was the biggest joke, and we saw endless people saying "who is this for? Who would want this? Why would you want this?" Apple did it anyway -- and it's one of their biggest hits.
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Like some here I started looooong ago. My first NLE was on an Amiga 4000 with a 25Mhz CPU and a effects software called ADPro, which didn´t even show a preview of effects, it was a mere batch-GUI. Then I went through pretty much all NLEs and ended with FCP6-7 for two reasons: MacOSX and compatibility with clients/agencies. Definitely NOT because FCP was a good program. Heck, even Edius is better.

About the "way Apple does things": when they started the iPhone, it was a gadget. A consumer-piece of sh**. A friend of mine is working for a mobile-phone-network and they laughed at Apple, because they make their money with professional solutions and selling large volume-licenses to businesses. Apple couldn´t even connect to an Exchange server early on. So they weren´t even bothered mrketing and selling it.
We all know Apple changed the way the mobile market works and they did so also in the professional markets. Hospitals have their MRIs on iPhones, logistic companies can follow their fleet easily on their phones and pads. Apple didn´t do it all themselves, a lot is done by 3rd party software (APPs).

FCPX in itself is the best NLE I used since FAST (which was later Avid Liquid Chrome). It is a database, not an NLE as we know it. It forces you to think a bit different and to have a safe state of mind it might use a lot of harddrives (when you copy everything into your Events).

I was pretty much the first one who used it in a major broadcast-stresstest in July (http://fcpxmegatest.blogspot.com/). It passed the test. I got to certain limits on my 2008-MacBook, but on my 2009-MacPro it already flies by FCP on a daily basis. We edit everything on FCPX now: musicvideos, docs, sports-highlightshows, commercials.....you name it. And I spend more time with my kids than I did in spring.......it is just sooo much faster and better.

I admit there are pieces missing, but Apple will rely on 3rd party to add many of those. Apple won´t give us a broadcast-monitor-output, but AJA and BM and Matrox will. And it will all work through thunderbolt.
FCPX is modular. Apple built the foundation. They included great tools. e.g. the colourcorrection is based on the engine of Apple´s Color. It is 16-bit now, so a huge quality jump over FCP7. I mean HUGE difference in its accuracy. If you need more they already gave us an XML-path to the free Resolve. And if you need more power you can buy the real DaVinci Suite (and there are already boxes with added GPUs, so no need for a MacPro in a professional environment, since all comes in external boxes). But it is up to you to make these modules as you need them.

Of course just like the first iPhone, the road is rocky still. The program itself s not finished yet. But in a few months the first upgrade (until now we more or less had bugfixes) will turn up including multicam-editing. And I am certain by 2013 FCPX is again the leader of the pack.

So APPLe does it a certain way. Their way.But it is no indication yet if they give up on the pro-market. Since Macs still are 20% of their revenue (and that was once their 100%) I wouldn´t expect them to give it up. And I wouldn´t mind an iMac with the power of a MacPro, since Thunderbolt-RAIDs are just as fast as internal RAIDS and GPUs can live outside the box anyway now.
 
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