Anyone use the Sony ECM-77b wired Lavalier?

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dv416

Well-known member
Anyone use this mic? I just got one, with the xlr thing too.

Now, I also have a wireless sennheiser g2 system. I've found the sony needs a lot more gain than the sennheiser. On my camera (FS100), I have to put the volume to pretty much 10 in order to match the sennheiser, which I never put over 5 really. It sounds noisy when I do this, but testing shows its actually pretty close SNR to the sennheiser, only a little worse. Everything I've read about this mic though, is rave reviews, no mention of a low output.

Would a pre-amp help? Because I guess the sennheiser is doing more pre-amplification in the transmitter / receiver units. Overall, the mic isn't bad, its just not really better than the sennheiser, which I was hoping it would be.

Any thoughts you guys?
 
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I have used them since they came out around 30 years ago.

The XLR is a balanced output and the input to the G2 is not so that is probably why you get the level differences. There is also some electronics in the battery compartment of the ECM77 that allows you to use it witl full phantom power, it is not usual to use it the way you are with an unbalanced input like the G2.

Adjusting the levels on the G2 may help but your fundamental problem is that you are using a balance XLR mic with an unbalanced 3.5mm input.

It may also be that the XLR to 3.5mm jack you are using is wired for the line input of the G2.

You could actually cut off the XLR power supply and wire the mic head direct to a 3.5mm jack and it would then work identically to the ME2 that is provided with the G2 as the radio mic transmitter would provide the power for the mic head that is done by the XLR battery tube.
 
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I suspect that if you use it with the GH2 and the little power it outputs to a microphone you'll end up with a low level. I think the GH2 outputs only 2-3V and you need at least 11V for a phantom microphone to output a proper level.
 
I've used plenty of 77s in my career, (including 50 & 55s) it's not my favorite mic but it's quite rugged and sounds decent for interview type work.
I would wire it directly with a locking 3.5mm plug and put a 3.5mm jack on the XLR power module (xlr thing?) for hardwired applications.
BTW, a battery must be used in the 77's (xlr thing) with a non-Phantom Pwrd. transmitter like the G2/3 100 series. Any configuration must be wired correctly for adequate gain / performance.

FYI, different mic make/models vary in sensitivity so the transmitter must be re-set accordingly.
 
To clarify, I am not using the 77b WITH the sennheiser transmitter. I am comparing the two. I have a sony ecm-77b with the XLR converter / battery module "thing" (which I believe is a pre-amp too? ) plugged into input 1 and and the sennheiser g2 wireless setup with the standard me-2 microphone plugged into input 2 on my FS100. The sony is being powered by phantom, and needs to be pushed all the way to 10 on the levels, and the sennheiser closer to 5. The sennheiser does have "sensitivity" settings which I believe basically function as a pre-amp, so this may explain the discrepancy.

upon reviewing the recordings, I find the sennheiser to be a few DB better SNR than the sony, and slightly "fuller" sound. Just curious what others' experiences are with this mic. And if low output and level-blasting on the camera / recorder is typical.
 
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The XLR module on the 77 is not a preamp. That being said..if your FS100 camera input is set to mic/phantom (ie preamp with power), I can't imagine why you would need to push gain that high (assuming 10 on a scale of 10) on anything resembling a typical source...dialog etc.
 
Gweilo66 is correct, the "xlr thing" is not a preamp. The Sennheiser body pack transmitter has a preamp in it and supplies bias current (aka, plug-in pwr.) to power the mic. (Not the same as Phantom Pwr. and not interchangeable)
I'm not familiar with the FS100 (nor do I currently have time to peruse the manual), but many Sony cameras have alternate mic gain settings in the software audio menu. Hope this helps.
 
I would run the wireless and hardlined lav to a separate recorder, like the 702 and then take a line out to the camera for a scratch track.
 
Ah well the output of the ECM-77 is at mic level and the G2 is somewhere between mic and domestic line level so it is not a true comparison, as you rightly say the G2 has extra gain inserted via the bodypack.

If you took an ECM77 and a sennheiser ME2 without the radio mic bodypack you will find they are about the same.

The G2 can be lowered in output to match but as your camera mic amps are not the best quality that is why you need more gain and they are noisy although for normal use an ECM77 should be Ok with a mic input, I have used them with my HPX371 with no problems, have you checked to see if a -10db pad is inserted or a high pass filter via the menus?

Have you tried the ECM77 running on battery and are you sure it is plugged into the mic input and not the line or with a 10db pad in circuit.
 
I disabled the in-menu gain. It can go +6 or +12, but for sake of testing I just left it at 0. Changing these per my use of the 77b would definitely bring the levels back down to the sennhesier 'range.'

I will try it with batteries too. Shooting later today, I think I'll mic the talent with both mics why not. I sorta just wish I could test it with another ECM, make sure this is normal. I am almost certain now that it is, and just a lack of pre-amplification like the sennheiser has, and the fact that the sennheiser is what I'm used to. The g2/me2 feels 'hotter' when in fact it really isn't much different.

Still, all this sort of makes me want to buy a juiced link or something. I want a few DARlings when they are released.
 
I'm betting one of the reasons you went with the FS100 was to use its audio. Just for clarity...the in-menu gain on each channel was at what before? FWIW, you should be able to get acceptable audio with proper settings..no external devices needed. There is a mode to feed one input to both channels. Set one level higher for good signal to noise, the other conservatively to have back up from overload. In fact, that's one reason NOT to run two separate mics..besides unnecessarily complicating the setup.
 
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Yeah I didn't end up doing the two mic setup. Just a thought I had - not practical though, especially just as a test.

I think this is just an issue of g2 pre-amping quite a bit, and the sony just being a mic plugged in. Can't really do a fair test, unless I get an xlr to female-mini adapter for the me2. May end up doing that, adapter's probably a good thing to have in the kit anyway.

on that note: anyone have any recommendations for said adapter? a 1/8 mini female to XLR male? the rode one here seems to not do mono inputs per the reviews. this one seems promising, but very few reviews.
 
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Those adaptors will not work if you wish to plug an ME2 directly into your camera!

They are just 3.5mm to XLR connectors and do not take into account the power aspects of the ME2.

To plug an ME2 into an XLR input with 48v phantom power you need a specialist adaptor that also converts the 48v phantom power down to the 1.5-3v that the ME2 requires.

This is the sennheiser adaptor : http://en-uk.sennheiser.com/mza-900-p

P.S yes it's expensive and probably cheaper to buy another mic but these ones from Canford are cheaper: http://www.canford.co.uk/Products/60986/20-769_CANFORD-ELECTRET-MICROPHONE-ADAPTER-3.5mm-jack
 
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