anyone use a color meter???

Wise words, Walter. I am nowhere near your experience, but I am starting to feel the same thing - mostly by observing experienced professionals on set (and of course, here at dvxuser.com). There is one exception, though: for some people like me, who are color blind (not completely, just red/green sensitivity shift, thank goodness), numbers are our saviors. That said, it's pretty much limited to color correction in post.

To Walter's post, I would add - if you want to rely on technology, why don't you buy a $300 cam and leave it on full autopilot?
 
XCheck said:
Wise words, Walter. I am nowhere near your experience, but I am starting to feel the same thing - mostly by observing experienced professionals on set (and of course, here at dvxuser.com). There is one exception, though: for some people like me, who are color blind (not completely, just red/green sensitivity shift, thank goodness), numbers are our saviors. That said, it's pretty much limited to color correction in post.

To Walter's post, I would add - if you want to rely on technology, why don't you buy a $300 cam and leave it on full autopilot?
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Wow, that's a whole different ball game. I cant imagine what you must go through to make pictures look acceptable.
 
Walter_Graff said:
Wow, that's a whole different ball game. I cant imagine what you must go through to make pictures look acceptable.
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I just shoot. I let others do the CC. :evil:

Actually, it's not that difficult once you understand the numbers. I found that modelling of light and overall contrast of the scene has more to do with picture quality than color fidelity. In that respect, color blindness is not necessarily a bad thing :thumbsup: .

Rule no. 1: human skin is red - no matter what color (you can have a car of any color - as long as it's black :) ). Once you learn how much red and how little green and blue, you are all set. In CMYK color space it's even easier.

Rule no. 2: Keep neutrals neutral. There should be minimum difference between R, G and B value for things that are supposed to be grey.

Rule no. 3: Keep black black. No dark grey (within the 7.5 IRE limitations).

I learned this from 'Professional Photoshop' by Dan Margulis - probably the best book on color correction you can get. It's heavily Photoshop centered, but a lot of it applies to film.

I am sure there are purists out there for whom the red must look exactly so, and sometimes it does, especially in commercials. But it rarely does in nature (just think of changes in color temperature during the day), and almost never on raw negative. As you mentioned, a couple hundred degrees Kelvin difference isn't that great - and is certainly adjustable in post.

I am sure that even the pros use numbers to make sure that Coca Cola red is right on spot.
 
XCheck said:
I just shoot. I let others do the CC. :evil:


I am sure that even the pros use numbers to make sure that Coca Cola red is right on spot.
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I know all too well having done just such a spot. Pantone 365 is coke red and when i work with art directors in our film transfer, they are real concerned that the red is right.
 
"The idea is to be an artist not a slave to technology."

Then paint with your fingers. Everything you use to shoot with is technology.

The original post asked about doing location scouting. The color temp meter is a valuable tool for location scouting. All quality cameras can see the difference between 1/4, 1/2 and full minus green, especially when mixed with other sources. I've been in countless office environments where there were different flourescents in various parts of the building. The maintenance people, if you can find them often don't know what's up there. And most of the tubes are behind diffusers so you can't see the label. So pulling out a color temp meter and taking a quick reading so you can be prepared come shoot day is a great tool. And you wouldn't be a 'slave to technology'.

'Color meters are great for still film'...I guess that means still photographers are not artists, just technicians. "we learn to use our eye" I guess the still shooters can't master that trick. Must be why they only shoot stills, not good enough to master the art of video. Lay it on thick for all the seminar buyers.
 
"So pulling out a color temp meter and taking a quick reading so you can be prepared come shoot day is a great tool. And you wouldn't be a 'slave to technology'."

No you will not but getting a chair or ladder and opening up the fixture and seeing what lamp it is will do the same thing. I've used color meters on scouts, but only in very rare occasions. I don't need one to tell me what color sodium vapor lamps are. We already know, or what color warm white fluorescent are, or what color brown window tinting is. If you are new to it all, the answer might seem to be a color meter, but I am telling the group that you'll end up confusing yourself more in the end and in the end the color meter might not tell you all you need to know to make it look the way you want.


"'Color meters are great for still film'...I guess that means still photographers are not artists, just technicians. "

No, in still photography the layers of emulsion see life and color shifts very differently than you or a video camera and even then, only in certain situations is a color meter going to tell you much. Photographers need it in certain cases because they can't see it live. A good photographer learns to see light and color and know the difference and the result without all the technology.

""we learn to use our eye" I guess the still shooters can't master that trick. Must be why they only shoot stills, not good enough to master the art of video. Lay it on thick for all the seminar buyers. "

Your lack of experience shows. You know what your responses and persistent attempt to win a useless argument remind me of? I recently produced some pieces for a national cable network. They were short four minute information pieces. My partner hired a guy to shoot something related to our subject but from something else. In the end the cable network asked if we could make a piece out of this other footage. We agreed. Here was the problem. the guy who shot this stuff owned a Dv camera. He also had one of those cool LED camera lights that cost way too much. And he had this device that allowed him to raise the camera up above the crowd and walk around getting interesting shots. He was a classic novice in that he showed by me logging the tapes that the had all the bells and whistles he could buy for his kit. But that was not the problem. The problem was that out of four hours of footage there was about 9 minutes of acceptable footage. Acceptable as in sort of ok to try to use for this piece. The rest of the footage? He never held a shot for more than two seconds. Constantly snapped the lens in and out in the most annoying way. Shot no handles on anything so I spent most of the time taking still frames and making a piece of stills. He forgot to color correct on a lot for the footage and it was so red that it was nearly impossible to color correct. ANd that cool pole device he used. Unusable as the camera made jerky motions every few seconds. So you can have all the tools you want, but art doesn't come from a paint brush, it comes from the person holding the brush. So in case you didn't see my original post, use a color meter if you want but you'll learn more if you learn about what lamp color temperatures are from looking at them and comparing them to what is stamped on them, and you'll have an easier time correcting for color temperature by using your eyes, and learning to feel light and color rather than relying on an instrument that gives absolutes. Art is not absolute and neither is good lighting. As for my seminars, I don't have to promote them. I have 414 people still on a waiting list to go to one and if I wanted to could make a living off them, but I don't have to. I do them to help folks just like you learn that you don't have to be a slave to equipment and that art isn't about gadgets. We live in an analog world. I'm done with this issue. Use a meter if you want, but you'll learn so much more with your eyes and your brain.
 
Talk about presistant attempts to win an arguement.

I have 18 years experience shooting all formats of film and tape and do very well at it. Your comments about my experience show your ignorance and frustration that someone actually challenges your lofty opinion.

I never said that the color meter by itself would supply all the answers like you repeately imply. There is certainly a need to interpret the readings just like there is a need to intrepret the zebras in the viewfinder. I use the zebras as a point of departure and adjust accordingly. I too can set an f-stop by eye and I too can tell most color temps by eye but I developed those skills while using a color temp and exposure meter. I didn't just wake up one day 'knowing it all' or acting like one. Those meters help me through the learning period.


"I've used color meters on scouts" ...you contradict yourself.

Ward Churchill has at least 414 students willing to follow him too.
 
You know an argument is going in a bad direction when you have to pull out the years of experience card...
 
...you guys are all idiots, seriously.

Like any true professional, I do all my light metering with a hand-blown glass radiometer. No screwy "eeee-lectronics" or fancy "experienced eye" needed...just count the spins per second and compare against my RPM to LUX conversion chart and...instant lighting!

H-d2a_400x300.jpg
 
HA HA HA HA HA! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: LOL!

The only other tool I can think of that's hand-blown is...

...never mind. This job is driving me crazy.
 
.. barnes.. how dare you show that "light-o-meter" without showing its dear and close friend the "drinking bird"
bigbird.jpg


..you know they are inseparable.. shame on you!
 
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