Anyone take the leap on the Deity Connect?

[puredrifting]

Have heard all of the samples, watched all of the reviews/tests and this system seems like a lot of bang for the buck.
Have been using the Røde Wireless since it came out and have been pretty happy with the results and the Deity
just seems like a better, more powerful version of the Røde.

I have also been using a friends Sennheiser G3s and frankly, I hate them, they have been unreliable nightmares as
far as RF hits, mosquito noise and crapping out in the middle of shoots after careful scans. Peronally, I think UHF is a
dying technology since the FCC is going to continue to crowd everyone into smaller and smaller space while auctioning
the rest of it off. I will probably pick up a G4 or two just to hedge my bets if I have to shoot in a 2.4Ghz unfriendly
environment, I'd at least have an alternative but the Connect seems like a pretty good value.

Thoughts? Anyone use them, buy them, have experience with them?

 

[Paul F]

Here are some of the cons if you haven't read them. From Alex Milne:

Channel count. Manufacturers are careful to state their 2.4 GHz offerings are channel limited. The EW-D1 footnotes up to eight channels “in an ideal RF environment” (some press releases state 15 channels. I don’t know which spec is correct). The DMSTetrad specifies “up to four channels” per receiver. 2.4 GHz mics aren’t able to offer as many channels because 2.4 GHz chips operate on less spectrum, ~83 MHz, compared with available manufacturer specific blocks/bands adding up to ~230 MHz in UHF. And because 2.4 GHz is so dang crowded with bluetooth and WiFi thingamabobs, you rarely get all of that spectrum to yourself.

Range and in-line attenuation. Given the same transmission power, under the same conditions, a UHF microphone will provide greater range than a 2.4 GHz microphone. In our experience, many overestimate just how much range they actually need (if the stage is within 100’ of the performer, you shoul be OK), and 2.4 GHz microphones sometimes have more powerful transmitters to compensate for the loss (The EW-D1 and DMSTetrad both have a maximum output of 100 mW, 2X the max for unlicensed UHF). You can also use a directional antenna to significantly improve range, but remember that transmission line (cable) loss is much greater at 2.4 GHz than UHF, so long cable runs are difficult.

Latency. Since all professional grade 2.4 GHz mics are digital, latency is a bit higher than UHF analog. But the delays aren’t all that bad on digital microphones, and don’t really stand too far behind UHF digital microphones. In fact, Line6 has latency that beats some UHF digital mics. Latency on 2.4 is only an issue when shows are being recorded for broadcast, or a picky artist starts complaining about monitor delay.

IT Department Wrath: 2.4 GHz is the same band that most WiFi devices use. You can’t always expect to waltz into a facility - especially a secure one - and power up a 2.4 GHz device without someone from the IT department hunting you down and telling you to put it away. WiFi in corporate and stadium settings is carefully calibrated and, more often than not, completely full. IT professionals have tools that let them know if something is interfering with their network.

 

[puredrifting]

All true but not very much of that is applicable to most of my situations. Typically they are for shooting talent doing a walk and talk or show hosting deal where me with the receiver would be less than 20-30' away from talent wearing the transmitter. Those 2.4Ghz limitations, since I have been shooting with the Røde for about two years, have not reared their ugly head once
but they are why I would cover myself and eventually also buy a G4 or two. From what I've read, these days, having both 1.9Ghz or 2.4Ghz and also UHF radios is the smart move because then you have different options for different situations.

 

[Paul F]

On paper it's pretty attractive. That's a lot of equipment for the price. Nice display, SMA connectors, dual receiver, and my favorite, remote control of the transmitters. I'd be tempted to abandon my G3s just for that. They will give Rode and Sennheiser something to worry about.

Downsides
- The plastic foil buttons on the transmitter; ughh, that's really cheesy and I expect it to fail.
- Partial plastic case
- One review did say they could not get a signal in crowded areas.
- Rechargeable batteries is a show stopper for me, especially since they are not user replaceable. "Hold on a few weeks while I send my transmitters in for battery replacement"

 

[puredrifting]

On paper it's pretty attractive. That's a lot of equipment for the price. Nice display, SMA connectors, dual receiver, and my favorite, remote control of the transmitters. I'd be tempted to abandon my G3s just for that. They will give Rode and Sennheiser something to worry about.

Downsides
- The plastic foil buttons on the transmitter; ughh, that's really cheesy and I expect it to fail.
- Partial plastic case
- One review did say they could not get a signal in crowded areas.
- Rechargeable batteries is a show stopper for me, especially since they are not user replaceable. "Hold on a few weeks while I send my transmitters in for battery replacement"

Foil buttons? Don't the Lectro SMQs have the same? I've read elsewhere that the batteries will not be very hard to change yourself but I don't know if that's true? I was thinking for certain shoots, I would Velcro small, flat Lithium with a USB C output to the transmitter, not ideal but would work. If I could get 6 hours out of them
without charge, charge them at lunch, that would work or if no lunch or breaks, but an on board small, light, flat Lithium pack would extend the run time considerably. Not ideal but might be worth it? The only time I usually am shooting for huge swaths of time uninterrupted is for BTS days on set. Those can go 10-12 hours. The reciever
will be in the bag, powered by an Anker 20100 battery so not worried about that, it's just the transmitters.

I could see tradeshow floors and shooting at some corporate areas not being friendly to 2.4Ghz that's why I would still pick up a G4 or two.

I just bought the Accsoon Cineeye 5G video tranmsitter and I did exactly that, hook and looped a small Lithium pack to the back and it's working great, I can shoot all day without changing it.

 

[Alex H.]

I’m still wary of latency and internal batteries. 19ms is a lot; not if these mics are your only sound source since that’s easy (though annoying) to correct in post. But once other sources are added, especially hardwired mics, the latency becomes a more difficult issue. There are 2.4GHz wireless mic systems with worse latency, but it seems most of the main brand systems are much better at ~4ms (Sennheiser AVX, Audio Technica System 10, RØDE Link).

Regarding total number of channels that can be run simultaneously: Andrew was on a Facebook Live presentation about the Connect system when it first released, and I asked that specific question. The answer he gave was *maybe* 5. I take that to mean most likely 4 under ideal circumstances, and fewer if the 2.4GHz band is crowded as it would be on a convention floor, in a stadium, and even on a film set with all the other things that are now WiFi-based (such as wireless FF and wireless monitoring).

I agree that Diety Connect seems to offer a lot of value for the price, but I’m also with Paul that there are just too many drawbacks for me to consider adding them to my kit.

Dan, if you do pick these up I’d love to hear your impressions after you’ve had time to put them through the paces.

And if you pick up a couple of G4s, I highly recommend (though more expensive) the ew512 in the AW+ band. The wider band (470-558MHz) means better choice for finding clear channels. The stronger TX output (50mW) is very helpful for signal stability, and the RX having both AF and dedicated headphone outputs make them incredibly versatile. I’ve used them on talent, as camera hops, and as client IFB. You’ll get your money’s worth out of them since they move easily between those applications.

 

[Rick R]

"I have also been using a friends Sennheiser G3s and frankly, I hate them, they have been unreliable"
They are not my favorite either. But with a due diligent set-up, they perform very well. I have used G2/3s in mid-town Manhattan (aka, RF hell) w/o problems. A external RF scanner helps though in populated RF environments and the internal scanner is useless IMHO.

 

[puredrifting]

"I have also been using a friends Sennheiser G3s and frankly, I hate them, they have been unreliable"
They are not my favorite either. But with a due diligent set-up, they perform very well. I have used G2/3s in mid-town Manhattan (aka, RF hell) w/o problems. A external RF scanner helps though in populated RF environments and the internal scanner is useless IMHO.

Have a link to what you use for an external RF scanner? Are they expensive?

 

[puredrifting]

I’m still wary of latency and internal batteries. 19ms is a lot; not if these mics are your only sound source since that’s easy (though annoying) to correct in post. But once other sources are added, especially hardwired mics, the latency becomes a more difficult issue. There are 2.4GHz wireless mic systems with worse latency, but it seems most of the main brand systems are much better at ~4ms (Sennheiser AVX, Audio Technica System 10, RØDE Link).

Regarding total number of channels that can be run simultaneously: Andrew was on a Facebook Live presentation about the Connect system when it first released, and I asked that specific question. The answer he gave was *maybe* 5. I take that to mean most likely 4 under ideal circumstances, and fewer if the 2.4GHz band is crowded as it would be on a convention floor, in a stadium, and even on a film set with all the other things that are now WiFi-based (such as wireless FF and wireless monitoring).

I agree that Diety Connect seems to offer a lot of value for the price, but I’m also with Paul that there are just too many drawbacks for me to consider adding them to my kit.

Dan, if you do pick these up I’d love to hear your impressions after you’ve had time to put them through the paces.

And if you pick up a couple of G4s, I highly recommend (though more expensive) the ew512 in the AW+ band. The wider band (470-558MHz) means better choice for finding clear channels. The stronger TX output (50mW) is very helpful for signal stability, and the RX having both AF and dedicated headphone outputs make them incredibly versatile. I’ve used them on talent, as camera hops, and as client IFB. You’ll get your money’s worth out of them since they move easily between those applications.

I'll probably ask Deity to review them for the magazine first and really try them out before buying. I know a lot of people were saying the Rødes were terrible and almost useless and I have been very happy with mine, they just work and work well, sound good, don't give me any issues and I even used them for a computer conference at Moscone Center a while back and there was a tremedous amount of wi fi flying around there.

The Deity latency is less than a frame so not sure how important that is unless you are mixing sources, which can come up using a boom and the wireless but not sure if that's an issue unless you are blending them?

I'm going to wait and see on the G4s, that's only worth it if I am getting enough sound work to make them practical to buy so we'll see.

 

[Paul F]

Foil buttons? Don't the Lectro SMQs have the same?

Yes, but not quite and I'm only speculating. There's no knowing unless you have it in your hands. The Lectrosonics implementation looks better. It has a proper thickness to the overlay. The Deity overlay looks to be very thin and susceptible to failure. The actual button underneath should not be a problem unless they went cheesy on that as well.

I hadn't realized how channel limited wi-fi is until just looking it up now; only 14 channels. I guess it's limited range is what let's that work.

Deity says it has 18 channels, so there is a disconnect in what I am reading. Sennheiser Gx 500 series has over 600 channels.
Deity outputs 100mw vs 30mw for the G3.

Sennheiser uses FM modulation and is open to interference. Wi-fi uses lots of things to prevent interference. But that costs latency. So it's a tradeoff.

 

[puredrifting]

Yes, but not quite and I'm only speculating. There's no knowing unless you have it in your hands. The Lectrosonics implementation looks better. It has a proper thickness to the overlay. The Deity overlay looks to be very thin and susceptible to failure. The actual button underneath should not be a problem unless they went cheesy on that as well.

I hadn't realized how channel limited wi-fi is until just looking it up now; only 14 channels. I guess it's limited range is what let's that work.

Deity says it has 18 channels, so there is a disconnect in what I am reading. Sennheiser Gx 500 series has over 600 channels.
Deity outputs 100mw vs 30mw for the G3.

Sennheiser uses FM modulation and is open to interference. Wi-fi uses lots of things to prevent interference. But that costs latency. So it's a tradeoff.

I think it's best to have both it seems?

 

[Paul F]

More is better. The remote control of the transmitter really has me wanting it. I'm looking forward to hearing your comments if you get it. My next money is waiting for Zoom to make an F8 with 32 bit float. I'm ruined for 8 channels and can't go back. No more worries about limiters or clipping. Some mixers are going to lose their jobs.

 

[puredrifting]

More is better. The remote control of the transmitter really has me wanting it. I'm looking forward to hearing your comments if you get it. My next money is waiting for Zoom to make an F8 with 32 bit float. I'm ruined for 8 channels and can't go back. No more worries about limiters or clipping. Some mixers are going to lose their jobs.

My third leg of defense will be the Tascam DR-10Ls and eventually a pair of the Tentacle Track E. If I am ever shooting in a place where no wireless work (I shot at a Golf Course in Palm Desert that is supposedly near a CIA installation where nothing worked - VHF, UHF or 2.4Ghz) I can still proceed with the shoot, just have to make sure I get a good, noiseless microphone
rigging so there is not rubbing on the mic, not difficult). I've actually done enough shoots with the Tascams now that I feel for a lot of people, not being able to monitor isn't as big of a deal as it's cracked up to be, if you know how to mount a lav well. I'd say I have 30-40 hours of material recorded with the Tascams
and none if it was unusable, although some of it could have sounded better, even the safety channel offset of -6db or -12dB isn't as good as the Track E's 32bit float.

 

[Paul F]

Oh, that's brilliant. I hadn't heard of the Track E. Clothing noise aside, that's everything I need. Who needs a mixer? Just give everyone a track E. Ok, it's not for everyone, but that's really nice. You're a &^$@#. Now I have that on my wish list and I have to decide what I want next. :undecided

 

[DNN]

I've used a lot of the major wireless offerings in challenging conditions. I found AVX to be one of the best "hands off" wi-fi systems for solo shooting as long as you're careful about where you're shooting and you don't mix with other analog systems. Perfect for camera guys or multimedia journalists with little sound experience. Decent sound quality but bad latency. It was only an issue for me if you mixed sources, i.e. with a boom or camera mic. I typically mic one or two subjects at once (reporter and interview subject) so plug two right into the camera. Requires less attention than other systems, which is a good thing if your camera inputs only record at 16-bit. Less margin for error. Rarely had issues with interference. But when you did get interference, it's bad. There's no way to really fix it. AVX automatically switches frequencies for you so if you're repeatedly getting bad hits, that's happening across all its frequencies. On a press mic podium with dozens of other mics and wireless transmitters, the AVX wigged out and ruined the sound. I've used G3s for years and they work well if you stay on clear frequencies. I agree that the internal scanner is worthless. I use an RF Explorer scanner which is pretty cheap. You can get them on Amazon for less than $150. I keep a set of G4 SK300s for hops which are 50mw. I feel that extra power boost helps. I primarily use Lectro LT/LRs and 411a/smqv's. They all transmit at 50mw or 100mw and the smqv's have a 250mw setting, which I use for car shots. The 411a has front end tracking which really filters out ambient RF and locks on. Works great. As long as you set a clear frequency, the signal is solid. The Lectro's are a lot more expensive (bought my entire bag piece by piece used) but so worth it. Sounds leagues better than everything below it, especially with good mics. The wi-fi stuff works pretty well overall but is very short ranged in comparison to the radio mics. And wi-fi is mostly line of sight so obstacles diminish the range drastically. I had an Uber driver mic'd for a story. We had her drive down this one street five or six times. She drove around the block to reset each take. I got clear signal all the way around the block with my smqv at max output. I doubt wi-fi could ever do that.

Also tried the new Sennheiser XS system as a hop since I wanted to clear up some freq space. I like that it's very small since you don't want to give camera guys a giant receiver to strap onto an already heavy camera. Worked alright but the internal battery doesn't last very long. Tried out the Rode when it first came out and found it to work decently well at close range. Way too big and clunky. Have a friend that uses AT System 10. I looked at it but didn't care that it had its own proprietary mic input. He's had similar issues with interference to me but likes it overall. Just requires a bit of diligence when shooting in certain locations like most wi-fi systems. Big offices with tons of wi-fi are, surprisingly, not a problem. Places with strong EM should be avoided such as transformers, power stations, server rooms, etc.

Just to add, most soundies are migrating to wide band wireless and dual channel so single channel, single band Lectro receiver/transmitter sets are really dropping in price.

 

[Greg_E]

We had a Sabine 2.4 system for a while, and it would support up to like 64 simultaneous transmitters if you had a clear 2.4ghz environment. We didn't because our building is completely full, so we had to drop down onto quazi-legal channels, but there was still room for 8 of them and we only had 4 at the time. Sounded great with dynamic mics, but we could never get a condensor to sound good because they only had around 1 volt bias and most things wanted at least 3. Ended up with a G3 system and they have been problematic too. Lots of little hits on the signal. Better since the FCC repack, but I'm still waiting for more problems. Still have the Sabine in the basement storage, but the antenna combiner/power for receivers failed so we had to pull it.

 

[puredrifting]

Just ordered the Deity Connect. I will report back when the kit it arrives next week and I have a chance to play with it. Not sure if you saw, but their latest FW update gives an option for adjusting the latency if the system is having dropouts/issues, interesting, huh?
It seems you can take more latency in the signal (up to a frame at 23.98) to increase signal retention. I'm still not sure if they can be used while hooked up to a battery but it seems that most other gear with built-in battery like my new Accsoon Cineeye allow you
to use as you charge the internal battery. For my use, I think the Deity will work fine, but I will be lining at least a pair of Sennheiser EW512 systems too so I will be covered for wide band UHF as well as
2.4Ghz and I always have the Tascams for situations where no wireless use is possible.

I'd love to buy the dual channel Lectros but $6k for two channels just isn't in the cards at this time. The Deity along with my one Røde Video Wireless will give me dual wireless
plus a camera hop and I'll pick up the Sennheisers once I hopefully make some money with it all.

I'm really interested in sound mixing for small, low number of mic shoots for colleagues and clients, not running a 10 wireless mic monstrosity for reality or a big feature. We'll see if all of this relatively small, simple, light weight, low dollar gear I am using can fill the bill
or if I'll have to spend serious money to get it there. When I was doing sound in the past, all of this stuff was really expensive and standalone recorders, people were still using Nagras so it's been quite a while. Just as in cameras, the amount of features and the relative
quality with mid level and even some of the low level gear is kind of amazing. We are spoiled for choice.

 

[puredrifting]

Oh, that's brilliant. I hadn't heard of the Track E. Clothing noise aside, that's everything I need. Who needs a mixer? Just give everyone a track E. Ok, it's not for everyone, but that's really nice. You're a &^$@#. Now I have that on my wish list and I have to decide what I want next. :undecided

I like the little Tascam DR-10Ls a lot, they are incredibly handy so a Tentacle 32bit float version with timecode tied to master TC from my camera or Mix Pre is just about nirvana for certain situations. Just make sure you rig to mitigate rubbing and it's going to sound very good. And they are cheap!
A lot of people on the sound boards are concerned for their jobs with technology like this and to a point, low demand, lower budget users ARE going to use new technology like this instead of hiring a sound mixer. Why wouldn't they? If you can figure out how to get output from the
Tentacle into any old cheap G3, Røde, etc. just for monitoring to make sure you aren't getting clothing rubbing, think of the possibilities.

I think what's been happening for camera people is finally creeping into sound. Sure, if you have a budget, you are going to hire a pro with the best gear. But for all of that fringe corporate, OMB, event type shooting, the sound mixers are not going to get hired very often with new toys like this that take "mixing" out of the
equation. With 32-bit float, who needs to "mix"?

 

[brettsherman]

I'm hoping someone starts selling the non-U.S. version of Deity HD-TX on eBay. Though I'm sure Zaxcom will deploy a team of lawyers to inspect all packages coming into the United States. With that you don't need the Tascam DR-10L. The combination of non-U.S. HD-TX and Deity Connect is the future of wireless.

 

[puredrifting]

I'm hoping someone starts selling the non-U.S. version of Deity HD-TX on eBay. Though I'm sure Zaxcom will deploy a team of lawyers to inspect all packages coming into the United States. With that you don't need the Tascam DR-10L. The combination of non-U.S. HD-TX and Deity Connect is the future of wireless.

Funny, I was scanning the CVP and ProAV UK sites yesterday looking for the exact same thing. Great minds! I did a shoot yesterday and client requested a "news stick mic" so I broke out the EV RE-50 and a 10' XLR. The whole day I was thinking how much more enjoyable the shoot
would have been if I had the HD-TX on hand and wouldn't have had to keep untangling the XLR cable from the camera.

FWIW, I have been PMing Deity on Facebook and they are super responsive and helpful. Also, I verified that the Connect transmitters can accept a mic or line level input so all of us who need to tap into mixers and PAs during event shoots are happy campers. Good stuff so far. I need to use them some more but so far, the Deity Connect is product of my year for value equation. All of the worry about internal batteries, so far, are unfounded. It all depends on the power output you set on the transmitters but at lower power settings, you'll easily get 10 hours. You can also buy a few cheap thinner Lithium candy bar type batteries for the transmitters it you need to achieve 15-20 hour run times but who shoots 15-20 hours these days? I try to avoid that these days.

My receiver is pretty much spending time in my audio bag, powered with an Anker 20100 so it's happy for days. The transmitters seem to have lasted longer than any of my shoots have yet. We'll see when we do some 14 hour days on the set of a show but so far, I am not doing a lot of BTS stuff lately where I need 10-12 hours.