Anyone seen F35 footage in 4K?

[SJX]

The snark is unbecoming,

Sorry, mainly because you make no sense. Sorry. Nobody lied here. Also what is your interest in the F35?

but yes I would say it would. I don't care what it does internally, if I can't get a 4k recordable file out of the camera with 4k worth of resolution it's not really a 4k camera is it?

So Red is not a 4K camera? What is 4K worth of resolution in the output?

But did Ed say it was a 4K camera? He said it has a 6K sensor. Where is the lie?

BUT! If it has a 6K sensor we could say the camera head is indeed 4K if you compare to Red way of calculating. So sure not 4K camcorder, but maybe 4K camera? rogar-BigGrin(DBG)

RED ONE was consistently measured at 3.2k once debayered.

And this is 4K??? Just rounding up the other 0.8K then?

EPIC at 5k measures 4k once debayered,

I think there are disagreements about that, isn't there?

and I shot with a DRAGON last month and I was late to the party.

Ok, honest don't know. They have announced it forever ago and they are always late. Hard to keep up and I don't care for Red.

Does it matter?

So you are a Red owner?

but what I do not understand is this vitriol that gets spit out on this forum every time someone talks about acquiring in 4k as a positive. Let it go.

This is F35 forum. People only say something about 4K when the image is crappy and all it has going is resolution like so many 4K cameras now. If there was a 4K F35 I think nobody here would complain. But we like to discuss F35 here because it's F35 forum.

As a DP yes, I put things like DR and colorimetry slightly ahead of resolution - but it just so happens that the best cameras out today not only have that locked down but also allow you to acquire in better than HD if you desire (Arri, RED, Sony).

Which 4K cameras have it all locked down? Have not seen them yet. I have seen lots of stops but ugly highlights, lots of resolution but ugly image, ugly color, ugly skins.

 

[SJX]

Just tell them the sensor is twice the resolution of the ALEXA. It's true.

Higher resolution than Red one and all 4K cameras besides Epic.

 

[JMtheDP]

The sad and unfortunate thing is that the decision on camera should be left to the DoP, who will use their knowledge to choose the most appropriate tool for the look and budget.

But, far too often that decision is taken out of the DoP's hands.

 

[Surf it Mike]

Unfortunately hate to rain on the parade here. But this ain't going to happen with Producers.

Yes the F35 puts out a stella image. But no producer worth their salt will risk a production with a 6 ? year old bit of gear (particularly with bonded services and requirements for back ups etc in the mix as well).

So yes you could tell the Producer that it has 5K sensor but in the same breath you should also mention its age and lack of pro support services and everyone knows what the answer would be.

Heck its looking likes the more modern F65 is going the same way ( a great cam) and thats a crying shame.

 

[Viddovation]

Unfortunately hate to rain on the parade here. But this ain't going to happen with Producers.

Yes the F35 puts out a stella image. But no producer worth their salt will risk a production with a 6 ? year old bit of gear (particularly with bonded services and requirements for back ups etc in the mix as well).

So yes you could tell the Producer that it has 5K sensor but in the same breath you should also mention its age and lack of pro support services and everyone knows what the answer would be.

Heck its looking likes the more modern F65 is going the same way ( a great cam) and thats a crying shame.

At best your statement is a gross oversimplication lacking the nuance to make it properly true. At worst, it's outright wrong. You say "no producer worth their salt will risk..." but you don't bother to qualify that claim with any further specificity on budget level, project type, final destination of the project, etc. You do perhaps imply that you're talking about major bonded productions, but again, you don't specify a budget level or a final destination for the finished product.

Just last fall (2013) I participated in an indie feature film destined for basic cable holiday viewing that featured Kristie Swanson, Dean Cain, and Haylee Duff. We shot it on the Sony F35 with the Sony F3 as the B-Cam. While I don't know their budget, I would guess it to be over $200k and under $500k. At this level the F35 is indeed a rational choice, and saved them money over shooting 4k that would have to be televised in 1080p anyways.

Look - I don't honestly think many people with bugets over $1 million are going to choose the F35 going forward. But I do think it's a reasonable choice for smaller productions. And I honestly find your phrase "any producer worth their salt" to end up coming off as an insult to any of the many fine producers of smaller budget projects where the F35 is indeed a fair choice. That includes producers of corporate video content, music video producers, short film producers, and ultra low budget indie film producers. Any number of these individuals may be a professional who makes their living producing video content, and I think it's unfair to imply they're not worth their salt, should they choose to shoot on the F35.

Perhaps you didn't mean to be this broad - if so, perhaps you can be more specific in the future.

Thank you.

 

[VinceinLA]

So... anyway, I was asking initially because certain venues may list 4K as a deliverable over the next few years. I'm sure that F35 footage will hold up better than most cameras, even in 4K, so it would be nice to have some ammo for that discussion. Thanks.

And I should point out: Age has nothing to do with a digital camera since the introduction of the Gen/F35. I know of a few $50-150million movies that are using even older cameras, which shoot on 35mm film. The Genesis is rented out all the time as well, and it's "ancient".

 

[Surf it Mike]

Yes your right apologies wrong turn of phrase "worth their salt".

But with current production trends and as a Producer this doesn't change the facts on the ground......biggest killer imo using the F35 is lack of pro support &"Bonded services" and their stringent requirements.

Sure the F35 is may well be a great tool for the indie feature and why not. Personally I wouldn't/ couldn't use one on a narrative however I believe the real strength of this camera is for TVC work given most of the world is still in SD land.

So I'm not "dissing" the F35 just the expectation that a Producer will be influenced by the words "5K" without consideration for the "ecosystem' that surrounds any camera choice on a production.

 

[SJX]

Unfortunately hate to rain on the parade here. But this ain't going to happen with Producers.



Yes the F35 puts out a stella image. But no producer worth their salt
will risk a production with a 6 ? year old bit of gear (particularly
with bonded services and requirements for back ups etc in the mix as
well).



So yes you could tell the Producer that it has 5K sensor but in the same
breath you should also mention its age and lack of pro support services
and everyone knows what the answer would be.



Heck its looking likes the more modern F65 is going the same way ( a great cam) and thats a crying shame.

Yes your right apologies wrong turn of phrase "worth their salt".

But with current production trends and as a Producer this doesn't change the facts on the ground......biggest killer imo using the F35 is lack of pro support &"Bonded services" and their stringent requirements.

Sure the F35 is may well be a great tool for the indie feature and why not. Personally I wouldn't/ couldn't use one on a narrative however I believe the real strength of this camera is for TVC work given most of the world is still in SD land.

So I'm not "dissing" the F35 just the expectation that a Producer will be influenced by the words "5K" without consideration for the "ecosystem' that surrounds any camera choice on a production.

LOL!!! Are you trolling or you just that missinformed?

Heaven Is for Real released last month shot on the Genesis. It's a major studio relase with a $12million budget and $89million box office. A producer who makes 89million on a 12million budget is not worth his salt?

The F35 is still used currently in major TV series.

Journey 2, Mirror Mirror, Red Tails, Here Comes The Boom, Transfomers 3, Real Steel are all major movies shot on the F35 and released within the last 2 years. Alexa, Red one and Epic were already out but the producers still decided to shoot on F35. Are they not worth their salt?


Honestly Mike, stick to surfing.:tongue:




TVC, LOL!!!:grin::2vrolijk_08:

 

[Surf it Mike]

@SJX
WTF ! No not trolling FUNNY even your own posts support what I'm what I'm attempting to say

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?323477-So-the-state-of-things-in-2014&highlight=

Funny no F35 listed there at all. Perhaps you want to update that list now with all those productions using it. Even funnier using a great camera on high end TVC work and then get laughed at.....

I apologized for something written in haste .............not good enough apparently.

The pope has a saying for people like you.....

Stop it or you will go blind.

I wish there was a little emoticon for WANKER!

LOL!

 

[SJX]

@SJX
WTF ! No not trolling FUNNY even your own posts support what I'm what I'm attempting to say

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?323477-So-the-state-of-things-in-2014&highlight=

What are you talking about? How my list supports your point that the F35 is a camera for SD TVC? That was a list of films being released in 2014 and was more a wake up call to people who think film is dead and also analyzing the Alexa absolute dominance comparing to other digital cameras. BUT! Heaven Is for Real is in that list! It's the one shot on Genesis.

Funny no F35 listed there at all. Perhaps you want to update that list now with all those productions using it.

No F35 there but there is Genesis, which even if you don't think it's the F35 twin, shoots in a lower format than the F35 and is also HD and not 4K.

The movies I mentioned here are not in that list because they are not 2014 movies. I thought that was obvious but I guess I have to spell it out for you.

Even funnier using a great camera on high end TVC work and then get laughed at.....

I guess we just have a different idea of what TVC means. For me it means low budget cable tv style commercials like car dealership stuff. Maybe is different in Australia. But I don't think so and I think this is exact what you mean because you said SD TVC. LOL that a camera with a 6K sensor and that resolves more than many 4K cameras is only good for SD TVC. LOL!!!

I apologized for something written in haste .............not good enough apparently.

The pope has a saying for people like you.....

Stop it or you will go blind.

I wish there was a little emoticon for WANKER!

LOL!

Maybe you should double check who is the wanker. I tell you what happened. You came here to diss, got called out and now you are trying to back paddle. Either just stand by what you said or come with better arguments. SD TVC camera? Really? Troll better.

 

[JMtheDP]

Gentlemen, put your handbags away.

OP: Anyone with a budget over the million dollar mark currently shooting is probably going to rent equipment in anyway and most likely you'll have the luxury of choosing something a little newer than the F35. I'm a huge fan of the F35 but given the choice I'd probably have an ALEXA if I could afford it, simply for the better form factor.

However, I do not usually work on $1m+ shoots, I work on shoots with budgets of tens of thousands or sometimes 100-500k budgets. Those people, especially at the low end, are often considering DSLRs, RED etc... and many are still shooting RED ONE or Scarlet. For those people, I believe the F35 to be a very viable alternative. If for no other reason than any rental house that still has one will do you a great deal on it simply because it is unfashionable.

I started off my career with an F900 - already an old camera with it's mere 2/3" chips and "poor resolution" - but it was great because I could almost steal kit from rental houses as they weren't getting used anymore.

 

[Viddovation]

Ay-yi-yi. I don't think much of the mess on page three is very productive, and I say that having been one of the participants. I certainly know that whether it's truth or not, if I spouted facts in that manner to a client they might not be a client for very long. SJX has some fair points, Surf it Mike has some fair points, I like to think my points have merit too.

Look - I think many of us on this forum can make a compelling argument that the F35 deserves to be considered in the same league as the the fashionable high end cameras of today; Alexa, Epic, F65, F55, and so forth. But please lets not kid ourselves that our little hot-rod club here is going to convince the powers that be to keep shooting major studio motion pictures on a camera that was already given it's walking papers. Hell! It's exactly because they gave the F35 it's walking papers that the rental houses purged their inventory and the 20 or 30 of us here could afford one.

And really, it isn't quite fair to use movies released in 2012 and 2013 as an indication of whether the F35/Genesis has a future on major sets. Those are films that were likely in principal in 2011 and 2012. Given the rental house purge of F35 cameras since then, it's unlikely major sets will find much rental stock left waiting for them. If anything, they may be more likely to shoot the Genesis, simply because Panavision may continue to service and maintain their fleet better than Otto Nemez and Alan Gordon and such choose to do for the F35. But then, Panavision has always a had a rentals only - never sell - policy, so their choice is either to maintain the cameras or let them gather dust - they might as well try to keep using them, given the circumstances.

But that whole conversation gets a bit tedious anyway. I don't think anyone in our little engine club here is pitching to major studios or directors anyway. And those who seem like they might be the farthest up that ladder appear to treat their F35 more as a personal camera. But really, where that leaves us is trying to convince smaller productions that the F35 is suitable for their goals. And I think we can concede that major studios are no longer using this camera regularly, and still win those smaller clients. Personally, I pitch it as an opportunity. Here's the camera that's so amazing it cost $250k and shot TRON: Legacy, and now it can be on your set for the low low price of $X.

I think we can have a lively debate without quite as much vitriol. At least, I hope so.

 

[Surf it Mike]

@ Viddovation

I agree you state the point more eloquently then i did. The F35 is a great camera "Tron Legend" is a huge look.

I work a lot with larger TV commercials and this camera imo. has the ability to kill alot of projects that are being shot with other newer systems. The look from surfing the pages here speaks volumes and it is a look that can be money-atrised and which people will pay for (the right people). So maybe instead of lets shoot Arri, Red maybe they should be looking at the F35 for the next fast food, auto manufacturer, cosmetic, financial instituion TVC. I know its something I may be doing.