Anyone else sick of Z1U/FX1 Bashing

myfriendimage

myfriendimage

Carbonite Member
I dont know about any other sony users out there but Im sick of alot of people bashing the fx1/z1u when 90% of them dont know what they are talking about. I just hear people bashing cineframe so that means the whole camera sucks, when in reality I was reading someone did a test posting cineframe clips online and saying it was true 24p and only 5% of the people replying questioned the image.

If Barry or someone wants to hate on the fx1 thats fine, but I hear to many DVX users come up to me and just outright bash the fx1 without ever laying a hand on it because of some random side by side comparison they see on the net.

I was just wondering if its just me or is anyone else sick and tired of hearing it from people.

If anyone wants the share their sucsess story with me that would be an awesome change.

I will just say I love sony's 1/3 HDV line, in my opinion sony is leading the industry with their cinealta line and it shows in their HDV 1/3 cameras. Almost every single person who has seen some of the footage going in my stock company or purchased footage has commented on the level of quality the image has to it. I think all it takes is getting the settings down the way you like it or the way you want the image to look, and with a good person behind the camera anything is possible with sony's line.
 
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Myfriendsimage:

I liked your comment... however if it were said in TRUE 24p, it would have looked 30x better!!!!

Just kidding... I got sick of the whole 24p thing like about 4 months ago :)

But for some reason this forum (DvxUser) has some sort of allure to it... so I'm hooked on it. I also go to camcorderinfo.com forum but I still like these alot better.

Personally, I embrace Progressive... but not 24! Gimmie 60p!

Do you know of any other good "Sony HDV" forums?

jg
 
I actually was able to use the fx1 a while back and thought it was a great camera. I think that people spend too much time debating which camera is the best. The fact of the matter is if you don't have the talent it's not going to matter how many lines of resolution your camera puts out, your work is still going to be bad. So I say to you Myfriendimage, if the fx1 is the camera that you feel most comfortable with, more power to you brother!
 
I notice the people bashing it for the most part don't actually own the camera or have used it. That's what I find hillarious.
 
well these will be the same people that like to walk around quoting specs and resolutions and never shoot anything.

Just ask them next time someone quotes in with "cinefram is a joke" or something like that. Oh OK, let me see some of your stunning footage....

There are some DVX and HVX users that take thier loyalty to Panasonic a bit too seriosly, to the point that anything else is crap. I will say this though, there are times I have the DVX out and the lighting is low, the noise shoots up and I say to myself...I miss my Sony PD150
 
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I believed all the negative stuff everyone said about the Sony untill the school i teach at got one and i love it. What a great camera.
I dare say if could go back in time i would almost be tempted to get this instead of my DVX which i love, but the image quality of the FX1 is just amazing.
 
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well tell you what.. I have a dvx.. and Im editing a music video right now shot on FX1.. down converted to SD.. and it looks awesome.. I can crank up the brightness/contrast and barely get any noise...
 
I simply love the DVX but I ended up being "forced" to buy a FX1 because many clients and producers started demanding HD. I freaked out when I read about CF24 and the artifacts issue...but once I got it I was amazed with it (I use CF25 though, because I have a Pal version). To see how bad the artifacts were I shot some random footage fully zoomed on a moving car and I had no problem what so ever. Since then I shot some very radical camera pans & travelings and so far I didn't have any problems...but I won't lie...have I had the money I would have gotten the HVX.
 
Oh, I love the FX1 and the HC1 especially. I play with them in the store every time I see one. I was personally a little let down by the Cineframe modes because they didn't look right to me but as you say, myfriend, many wouldn't notice what 24p is supposed to look like or could accurately tell which is which even by a side comparison. 1080i is where IT'S AT though, there's just so much clear resolution from these cameras. I'm still debating whether to get an A1U or not, I think it'd be the perfect Director's Viewfinder for me and it'd be a step up from my GL1 until I could get a bigger camera like the HVX or RED.

In the past, I was a little hesitant towards the FX1 when it came out and the studies and tests were done. But the footage it could produce was just incredible, so I never did really "bash" it, I just recommended a better suited 24p camera for filmmakers that liked that look or suggested that they get the FX1 and use Magic Bullet of DVFilmmaker on it. Really, the Sony's are practically steals at their prices and you get a lot more manual control out of the FX1 than the higher end cameras of old did.
 
Hello, wanted to know if anyone has recommendation for camera settings on the Z1U. Shooting a feature and want to know if there are settings to get the best footage. Thanks
 
hiro said:
well tell you what.. I have a dvx.. and Im editing a music video right now shot on FX1.. down converted to SD.. and it looks awesome.. I can crank up the brightness/contrast and barely get any noise...
Click to expand...


how do you down convert? I was looking into buying a FX1 but can you edit on any system? I have premiere pro but they only have 720 x 480 settings. unless you go to custom and then select microsoft video and then type in 1440 x 1080 in the boxes. I'm just confused. Is down converting as simple as capturing the footage to a 720 x 480 project?

For the people that have an FX1 or Z1 what do you edit on?
 
I am an owner/operator of a Sony HD Z1U and everyone that edits my footage uses a Mac and Final Cut Pro v.5. to digitize and edit on.
 
hey, I own a z1u. I love it. Here at my film school the faculty had a lot of gripes. like everyone, they harped on CF and the mpeg2 color compression and long gop, etc. That's humans, we always pluck out the flaws and fear change!

I even see people starting to pick on miniscule aspects of the HVX now. Noise floor, pixel count, etc.

Fact is, we need people that do that, AND we need people that use the cameras to create. the two compliment each other and force progress in technology...

...but yeah, i agree with the thru-line of this thread. the creativity, that is where it's at. performance, story, just going out and doing something.

that being said. i have experimented a LOT with the Z1U, it's settings, various plugins etc. I've used everything from Magic Bullet, to Nattresses most excellent film effects and standards conversion, to shake, to you name it.

i personally have found, that the best solution for 24p is to shoot PAL 50i with the Z1U and use the nattress film effects to make it 25p. Then use cinema tools to instantly conform to 23.98. Finally use any sound app, like soundtrack pro, to slow down the audio 4% and pitch shift it accordingly.

it sounds like a hassle, but it's not that bad. The nattress plug-ins are by far quicker than magic bullet, and shake's optical flow technology, and i find the quality of the deinterlace very good.

if you want to see this process in action, sniff out that trailer mentioned on these boards for "tomorrow is today" they used this process.

so that's step 1, 24p. step 2 is the film gamma curve and colors. obviously, this will vary from project to project. if you are confident in your look, you can use all the great options in the camera to create a more cinematic color curve. or, as is becoming more the norm, you can shoot fairly even and do it in post, again using nattress film gamma or the like.

what you get is 1080 24p. is it perfect. no. can it be amazing. yes. from here, you can uprez to HDCAM, downconvert to your flavor of DV, cut a really nice DVD, and one day make an HD-DVD :) sweet.

on a side note. when shooting, their are several things I have found help things approach a more "filmic" environment. 1. lighting. obviously, lighting like you were shooting a movie helps.

I have found myself using my light meter more and more in run and gun situations. if you auto-iris your Z1U or FX on a gray card with whatever settings you are going to shoot at (nothing auto!) then set an F-stop. Match frame rate and adjust the ASA on your meter until you get the same F-stop as your camera. then your set to use your meter! You can measure stops, contrast within the shot, etc. I find it a little quicker and more accurate than zebras as I am used to shooting a lot of 16mm. I find that the Z1U can go about 5 stops under key, but only around 2-3 stops above key, before blasting out. of course, you can use a waveform monitor or a FCP system on a laptop as a waveform monitor. And I would on a larger scale project. But i'm digging this light meter style more and more.

second. and the thing a lot of people struggle with (I know I do!) is to motivate your shots to the action. so many people pick shots and moves because they think they are cool or cinematic. while that may be true, if they have no relation to the action you are capturing, then they are usually superfluous and a tell tale sign of amateur play.

third. depth of field. ahh the great digital tell all. I haven't tried this yet... but i was thinking of shooting something all at ND2, wide open. Bringing in more lights. Kind of like when I used to shoot old 64speed Kodak BW film stock. This would definetly limit the DOF.

I know a lot of people also say, just shoot really long. And yes, this will help limit the DOF. But remember it also changes the relationship of the space. Making deeper space flatter. This can be good, drawing people closer together in a space. But sometimes it may not be what you want. So you have to weigh the pros and cons of DOP versus composition. Just food for thought.

I'de recommend getting a focus chart and a color chart and just playing with all the settings to see what they really do. Then go and shoot tons of tests. It's fairly cheap and easy to do so once you have the camera. Find that look and flow that work for you!

My one and only comment is. Watch out for Green Screen work with HDV. its tough with color space and MPEG-2 compression. Plus, I am a little scared that, due to accessibility, we are entering the time of more and more bad green screen projects.

Finally, trust me on this. there are a lot of people happily using the Z1U, DVX, PD150, and every flavor out there. They're not complaining because they are out there shooting!

Boy, I guess I write a lot when I am at work with nothing to do! :)
 
And about the HDV compressed audio - what do you HDV users think?

Bad audio acquisition?...is it noticeable? Is it better double it with an external audio recorder? Is it even necessary? Specially to blow-up to 35mm@big_screen? Is there any user report?
 
z1u or fx1

z1u or fx1

i was on the sony site i saw the z1u but i did not see the fx1 which of the 2 is the more prosumer model the z or the f? i know both cams shoot hd but do they do both sd and hd and is there 24 frame in it? since my last post i did some looking into the z1u and i admit im reinterested in the dvcam format a format ive always loved. i was pulled away abit only cuz panny offered 24 frame but now i may reconsider everything now im left wondering how does the dvcam/24 look compared to the dv/24 of the dvx100b?
 
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OK here goes.....I'm one of the bashers of the Z1 and I have and do still use the damn things at a push. The latitude of the camcorder sucks. As for noise, well I get by. For the price its a very good little camcorder but it does have it's limitations. If I were asked to invest in one tomorrow then sorry no, I wouldn't want to sink the cash into something that's just OK.

If you want to see some sample Z1 footage, go to my website and click on the recent projects section. See for yourself what you can actually achieve with some thought on lighting and composition and alot of CG.

Regards

Rich

www.steadicams.com
 
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