anybody using MLUTs for monitoring?

K

keithlango

Well-known member
I want to use a rec709 monitor LUT for when I shoot in s-Log. Normally I'd plink around with the camera and such and try and make this work myself, but I figured I'd ask here first.

The user manual is fairly opaque on how to use MLUTs. Anybody here got any hints/shortcuts/suggestions/clear instructions?

Thanks in advance.

-k
 
You can select luts for the different outputs in one of the submenus. Don't remember exactly what it's called. Fairly straightforward, but a simple search in the manual should yield a detailed explanation if I remember correctly.
 
I send r709 to the sony EVF and love it- There is a menu that allows you to turn them on, then you just pick which output you want to turn on a LUT and select the lut.

Speaking of which- Can we upload our own LUT's into the camera for monitoring?
 
BTW, I noticed recently (when I had the chance of renting another camera with older EVF) that one of the differences between the different viewfinders such as the c30wr, the c35 and the c30w is that the c30wr has a MLUT button in it, which is very handy.
 
Does the camera have a rec709 MLUT already installed by default? I've tried enabling MLUTs in both the VF and monitor feed via the USER menu options but it doesn't seem to make any difference in the monitored image. I've also tried the C30W's MLUT button again without any seeming impact upon the monitored image. Set the menu, it looks the same as it ever was. I'm wondering if my camera just doesn't even have a rec709 MLUT installed. Looks like I'll poke around a bit more in the menus. If it turns out that I don't have a rec709 MLUT installed then I'll need to find one somewhere online.

As for how I see things... I just got used to looking at sLog in the monitor. *shrug*
 
It does have a rec.709 lut pre-installed, yeah. On the same page in the USER menu you'll first have to change another setting which enables luts. Don't remember what it's called, though - something fairly obscure.
 
I managed to sort it out. Pages 44-46 of the user manual. Got the MLUT on/off assigned to the #1 and #2 custom buttons as well for easy back and forth. Thanks for the help.
 
There are several LUTs pre-installed and you need to choose one for the MLUT to do anything. I can't remember what page it is on but it is in the ops menu I am sure.

You can individually enable/disable it for the video/viewfinder/monitor out

I just suggest some caution with LUTs, if you know what you're looking at they are fine but they can often make an image look over-exposed if you've got some areas of brightness in there when actually you were fine.

Sure I'm preaching to the choir, but its vital nonetheless
 
JMtheDP said:
I just suggest some caution with LUTs, if you know what you're looking at they are fine but they can often make an image look over-exposed if you've got some areas of brightness in there when actually you were fine.
Click to expand...

This is what I was thinking. Rec709 will clip first so gives wrong impression of real image. Why no have slog in viewfinder or monitor? What are cons? Just preference? I didn't think it was bad and only shot without lut by now.
 
I suggest that what can be bad about using LUTs for exposure is if you don't know how the values are being mapped from the MLUT back to the underlying slog level.

For example an MLUT can be designed so that when you see 100%IRE on the WGM it's mapped down to 65%IRE (which for S-Log 65% is the value for 90% reflectance). Another LUT such as a typical REC709 LUT would probably use 90% on a WFM to map down to 65% but you have to check first and know the boundaries.

Making matters more confusing, if you use WHITE to expose your image with an MLUT it does not guarantee that middle grey will fall in the right place ie. 38%. Remember that a MLUT bends all tonal values from an image. So with slog1 18% middle grey is 38% and 90% white is 65% - yet with other MLUTs both grey and white can have different mappings. A more detailed example was given here: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...Addict&p=1986466350&viewfull=1#post1986466350
 
In my opinion it's way easier to expose incorrectly when monitoring pure s-log. The values are just not mapped in a way that gives you an accurate impression of the scene.
The built-in LUT is my best friend, although I often switch momentarily to s-log just to doublecheck highlight detail. I have my rig set up so I can flick a switch on the monitor to toggle between LUT and s-log. Works a charm.
 
mlysbakken said:
In my opinion it's way easier to expose incorrectly when monitoring pure s-log. The values are just not mapped in a way that gives you an accurate impression of the scene.
The built-in LUT is my best friend, although I often switch momentarily to s-log just to doublecheck highlight detail. I have my rig set up so I can flick a switch on the monitor to toggle between LUT and s-log. Works a charm.
Click to expand...

Ok but if use lightmeter to expose I think viewfinder can be slog and only client monitor with rec709 lut for client who don't understand log? Expose with viewfinder lut or not is not accurate right?
 
The tendency is to overexpose a little (or a lot) if monitoring s-log but many have gotten use to it plus know to check values using a waveform monitor or by using other exposure tools.

Once you get use to using a lightmeter (providing you went through rating the camera process yourself first) sure you can leave the viewfinder in slog and setup a client monitor with REC709 or any other LUT that you want. Once you get really comfortable with it you can even use your lightmeter and not even have to look at the monitor! Imagine that!
 
starcentral said:
The tendency is to overexpose a little (or a lot) if monitoring s-log but many have gotten use to it plus know to check values using a waveform monitor or by using other exposure tools.

Once you get use to using a lightmeter (providing you went through rating the camera process yourself first) sure you can leave the viewfinder in slog and setup a client monitor with REC709 or any other LUT that you want. Once you get really comfortable with it you can even use your lightmeter and not even have to look at the monitor! Imagine that!
Click to expand...

This is what I think of doing. Monitor and viewfinder is for focus and frame. This is why I thought keeping slog viewing. But people also use viewfinder for exposure? Zebras yes but image?
 
I bought OLED for F55 and it sits on the camera yet I rarely use it. I'm just an external monitor kind of guy. Especially if I have no crew and I am dollying, pulling focus and monitoring frame all at the same time. Try that with a VF. I just like my external monitors.. but that's just me. On bigger jobs I setup the ext. monitor with LUT for director and makeup artist (and whomever else) who want to see what things look like in wonderland, then I use OLED VF and again don't care what it looks like in my VF, I know that underneath I am recording at the right levels.

A lightmeter is really my best friend. If my gaffer didn't bring his own I give him mine and get him adjusting different lights to the f-stop I want and then also get the AC to set f-stop and/or ND filter to what I want - but I rarely work on such pleasurable shoots where I get to command an army. Low budgets just don't allow it often.
 
I spent a few hours trying to figure out how to import a LUT into CVP editor with no success. I personally would love to figure out how to get some of the custom SLOG 1 MLUT's into my F35. I know it's loosing a lot of information to just "burn-in" the MLUT image, but for about half the jobs I've done on my F35, I've shot hyper gamma 5 because the client wanted something they could quickly color and edit. The Hyper gamma is a little better than the F35 MLUT, but I feel they both are lifeless and flat. Hyper gamma especially without tweaks looks very unvibrant. I have boosted the saturation and played with the black levels of the gamma but even with tweaks in camera, you need to add a little more life into the hyper gamma image.

If I could click a button to see Macs LUT or starcentrals LUT, it would be of great use to me. I know this is not the way to get the most out of the camera, and if I was shooting a project for the big screen I would record untouched SLOG. A lot of gigs I do the client doesn't care if it's a 5D or FS700 as long as the footage I give them looks great. Everyone loves the detail, texture and movement of the F35 right away and sees the advantage, I just wish I had a way to get some of the great "looks" you guys have worked up for SLOG 1 into my F35 to see in realtime.

It's also kind of cool you can connect to the camera and adjust looks in realtime with CVP editor. I just wish I could figure out the translation between the resolve .cube and the file CVP is looking for.
 
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