Anybody use a Firestore with their DVX?

S

squintpictures

Member
Just curious if anyone uses a firestore or similar device with their DVX and edits in Final Cut. I would like to know how it works out for you.

Thanks.
 
I have a DVX kit including the Firestore and it's amazing how the tapeless thing works. I have to say that tapeless is the way to go hands down. Interfacing with the Mac couldn't be easier. The computer, as you probably know reads the firestore as a harddrive (since that's what it is :) It is lightyears above the old capture method. I still, however, shoot tape to for a backup, which is a great feeling.

It can be a bit noisy when the fan kicks in, but mostly quiet enough except for the quietest shots in very tight rooms. Also, buy the extra battery and you will have plenty of time to shoot with it. I actually plug it in on set when not being used just to keep the charge up on it.

I've only used mine for about 6 hours of shooting so i can't speak to long term useage, but so far so good. I'm actually going to get rid of it and buy the new HD version for the HVX. I hate to see it go, but I don't need two camera kits.

best of luck,

jason
 
insanityfw said:
Also, buy the extra battery and you will have plenty of time to shoot with it. I actually plug it in on set when not being used just to keep the charge up on it.
Click to expand...

How long does the battery actually last? It says 90 min - but so does my DVX battery, and it does not last 90 minutes ...

insanityfw said:
I'm actually going to get rid of it and buy the new HD version for the HVX. I hate to see it go, but I don't need two camera kits.
Click to expand...

Just be carefull not to buy the current HD version of the FS- it is for HDV, not for Panny's HD. I'm sure that they will come out with one for the Panny, it's just not the one they talk about on their site.
 
waltind said:
How long does the battery actually last? It says 90 min - but so does my DVX battery, and it does not last 90 minutes ...

I never really tested it, but I went comfortably over an hour without pluggin it in. I tend to power it down when there's any delay on set. I'm not sure if it's better or worse on the battery, but it was more for cooling issue for me, just to keep it as quiet as possible.


Just be carefull not to buy the current HD version of the FS- it is for HDV, not for Panny's HD. I'm sure that they will come out with one for the Panny, it's just not the one they talk about on their site.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'm aware of the difference now, but was a bit confused when the rumors of a firesotore for the HVX were in development orginally. I'm planning on waiting to see how long until we have the Firestore for the HVX, but it may not make it in time since I'm supposed to start my feature in March. I'm still going to have a couple of P2 Cards as well so not too much pressure.
 
squintpictures said:
Thanks. If you want to get rid of it, I might be interested.
Click to expand...

I was going to sell it as part of a DVX camera kit, but it may be easier to break it all up. If you're interested just PM me and we can talk about it.

Jason
 
insanityfw said:
I have a DVX kit including the Firestore and it's amazing how the tapeless thing works. I have to say that tapeless is the way to go hands down. Interfacing with the Mac couldn't be easier.
Click to expand...

Jason, So I just got a FS-4 and I cannot seem to get it to work correctly with my DVX in 24p. Maybe you can enlighten me. (I posted these questions / problems at the FS4 Forum linked from Focus's site as well as emailed them, and have not heard back.)

Here is goes:

PROBLEM #1 - Garbled image for up to 3 seconds at the end of clips -
I have uploaded examples to my website for your review, but on EVERY clip that I try and record 24p to it has this image, with clean audio at the end of each clip. All you see it the garbled image, and the audio plays fine. This happens before you even bring the clip into FCP - if you just play it from the hard drive it shows up. I am using a Panasonic DVX100a, and the FS-4 is set to QUICKTIME 24p. When you import the clips into FCP the problem still remains.
Examples-
Stills:
http://www.waltersindustries.com/FS4Still.jpg
http://www.waltersindustries.com/FS4Still.tif
Clips:
http://www.waltersindustries.com/20051130-223401-01.mov (15.5MB)
http://www.waltersindustries.com/20051202-072716-01.mov (104.0MB)

PROBLEM #2 - Jump Frames on pause in FCP -
Unfortunately, I cannot provide an example of this, as I cannot think of a way to show you short of having you here at the computer with me, but here it is: When i put a clip in the time line and play it, it plays back fine until I stop the play back. Then instead of showing a still frame of the part of the clip that I am currently stopped on it jumps to a random image from that clip. Once playback resumes, it goes back to displaying where the playhead is at on the timeline. This is making it EXTREMELY difficult to edit, as I cannot got through and advance one frame at a time because it does not show the correct frame that I'm on when stopped.

PROBLEM #3 - Sped up clips upon render, or addition of any filters -
Examples are below (I have also included the Final Cut Pro Clips). Anytime I use a clip from the FS-4, and apply ANY filter, or make ANY change that requires rendering, the clip is sped up, and does not play at the correct speed. This remains true regardless of whether or not I use the original clip from the FS-4, or copy that clip and make a reference file and use that one instead.
Clips:
http://www.waltersindustries.com/20051130-223401-01.mov (15.5MB)
http://www.waltersindustries.com/20051202-072716-01.mov (104.0MB)
http://www.waltersindustries.com/24paOrg (14.7MB - FCP File)
http://www.waltersindustries.com/24paOrg.mov (14.7MB)
http://www.waltersindustries.com/24paRF (14.7MB - FCP File)
http://www.waltersindustries.com/24paRF.mov (14.7MB)
http://www.waltersindustries.com/24paRFWS (14.7MB - FCP File)
http://www.waltersindustries.com/24paRFWS.mov (14.7MB)
http://www.waltersindustries.com/24paWS (14.7MB - FCP File)
http://www.waltersindustries.com/24paWS.mov (14.7MB)

PROBLEM #4 - Not Optimized Clips in FCP -
Every time I import clips into FCP from teh FS-4 I get a warning saying that the clips are not optimized to work in or with FCP, and may not work correctly within FCP. According to your web site it should work with my mac ( http://www.focusinfo.com/products/firestore/fs-4.htm ) as I am using OS 10.

All this to say, I am NOT having the experience I thought that I would have by using the FS-4. What is going on? I have all my setup info listed below:


MY CURRENT SETUP-
FS-4:
Current Driver Version- 1.0.1 (June 21st, 2005)
Format- QuickTime 24p
TC Non-Drop
(I have formatted and repaired the disk TWICE, and the problem it still there.)

Camera:
DVX100a using Scene File Setting F6 (which is 24pa)

Computer:
PowerMac Quicksliver G4 (Dual Gig)
OS 10.4.2
FCP 4.5 (Sequence Settings are at 23.98fps - problems are still there if I change it to 24fps)
 
Ryan,

I'm sorry to hear that you're having a tough go of it. I've looked over your issues and it seems like there just may be something wrong with your FS-4. To be honest I only really know, technically how to deal with things when they're working well. When things go wrong I just don't have the same knowledge as others.

The only thing that I've experienced similar to your issues was the first one where I get audio at the end and the few seconds of static. Looks exactly the same as yours. With mine it didn't seem to actually effect the what I was recording. Almost like a delay in making the connection between the camera and the FS when you hit the button to stop recording.

I will think about your issues and play around with the FS as soon as I can to see if there's is anything that I can think of that might need to change in your settings. There are a lot of menus and ways to screw things up with the FS and the manual sucks for setting information....actually sucks seriously.

You called me out on being easy to use with Mac's :) I guess I should have said that it's easy once you get everything in the menus sorted out. In all seriousness though I've never had to make many adjustments all and all, but rather turn settings on and off.

I hope that the Focus people get back to you...that seems really crappy that they haven't.

You'll have to give me a day or so to dig around. I haven't use the FS in a while, I've got two big jobs I'm working on, I've got a head cold and my baby's teething. :) Send pitty to....just kidding. I'll check my setting tonight if possible.

Cheers,

J.

PS- I always shoot in F5, so I wonder if there is something there.
 
would a FS-4 eliminate problems with losing cadence like I'm having with tape and premiere? and are we looking at any kind of improved image quality with a FS system?
 
I have a problem with my firestore and I plan on returning it. The sound is always slow. I think it's slowed down by about 50% and it sounds all low pitched. :(

it's sad too, cause I really like the firestore concept.
 
insanityfw said:
You'll have to give me a day or so to dig around. I haven't use the FS in a while, I've got two big jobs I'm working on, I've got a head cold and my baby's teething. :) Send pitty to....just kidding. I'll check my setting tonight if possible.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'm working on a project right now as well, and we've got a shoot today, so i can understand the busy load. I'll trying playing around with it some more tomorrow, as tomorrow looks like a more reasonable time to do further testing. If you think of anything let me know. Otherwise I'll post back after I've done other testing tomorrow.
 
Well I've done more testing and things just seem to get worse - not better! I tried recording in Raw DV format, which did not help things any. Now my G4 Tower will not recognize my FS4. But my G3 Laptop will, go figure. So I transfered my files via the laptop, and the Raw DV shot in SF5 & SF6 will not show up in 23.98 format. Only in 29.97.

Customer support sucks! I emailed them and it took over a week to get back to me, and their response was that they have never heard of this before, yet from the various forums I have seen there have been others expierencing the same thing. (I doubt that I have been the only one to contact them ...

I am not impressed with the FS-4 or with Focus Enhancements. Their product is working as well as their customer support ...
 
How do you go about logging your footage before importing it all into your NLE? For example if I just shot a long interview, I might only want to import certain sections of the footage but with the firestore it would seem like you would have to import everything you shot. Is there a way to log your footage before hand?
 
DVX100Shooter said:
I might only want to import certain sections of the footage but with the firestore it would seem like you would have to import everything you shot.
Click to expand...

You are correct, you can only import what you shot, nothing less- to import smaller clips you have to stop the camera/firestore to create a new smaller clip- not something I would recommend for an interview.
 
insanityfw said:
I will think about your issues and play around with the FS as soon as I can to see if there's is anything that I can think of that might need to change in your settings. There are a lot of menus and ways to screw things up with the FS and the manual sucks for setting information....actually sucks seriously. ... I'll check my setting tonight if possible.
Click to expand...

I was wondering if you would be able to share your settings with me, as I seem to be striking out with the setup I've got.

insanityfw said:
PS- I always shoot in F5, so I wonder if there is something there.
Click to expand...

I think that you might be right, I'll have to do some more tests .....
 
Well I did some more testing, as Focus has yet to reply to me (which seems par for the course) and it looks like they are not recording 24p correctly in their drives. You can checkout my test results by downloading this PDF: http://www.waltersindustries.com/FS4Test.pdf (52k). As you can see, when using the normal quicktime setting on the FS4 and using the camera in either 24pn or 24pa FCP can remove the pulldown, and use the clip correctly. When trying to use the QuickTime 24p everything goes wrong. Hope this helps. If I learn anything more, I'll post back. But for right now it looks like if you want a 24p workflow with FCP, set your camera to either 24pn or 24pa, and the FS4 to QuickTime, record, capture, and then use FCP to remove the pulldown.
 
Sorry Ryan that you're still having trouble and sorry I haven't gotten back to you. I just took on another project and my wife is out of town so I'm now 24hr a day Mr. Mom to a 6 month old, so my brain is fried.

I will sit down tonight and try to figure out my settings. the menu sucks so I think I always end up changing settings by accident. What settings do you need to know about?

On your Quicktime idea I think that I use QT 24p with the F5 settings, so I wonder if all the figuring is futile and your unit is just plain faulty. Too bad Focus is being worthless.

Sorry again for the delay.
 
insanityfw said:
Sorry Ryan that you're still having trouble and sorry I haven't gotten back to you. I just took on another project and my wife is out of town so I'm now 24hr a day Mr. Mom to a 6 month old, so my brain is fried.

I will sit down tonight and try to figure out my settings. the menu sucks so I think I always end up changing settings by accident. What settings do you need to know about?

On your Quicktime idea I think that I use QT 24p with the F5 settings, so I wonder if all the figuring is futile and your unit is just plain faulty. Too bad Focus is being worthless.

Sorry again for the delay.
Click to expand...

No worries, thanks for your help & time. As noted above in my test chart, I've been able to get it to work using F5 & F6 when recording on the FS-4 in QuickTime format. But when the FS-4 is set to QuickTime 24p it is hopeless, and does not work. If you are using QT24 and F5, I would be curious to know what your camera and FS-4 settings are. No rush, as I've got a work around with F5 or F6 and Normal QuickTime.
 
Hans Moleman said:
would a FS-4 eliminate problems with losing cadence like I'm having with tape and premiere? and are we looking at any kind of improved image quality with a FS system?
Click to expand...

As far as cadence problems go I'd say get away from Premiere. :happy: Just kidding. I'm not sure if that would be effected or not. On your second question I don't see how there could possibly be any improvement in the image quality. DV is DV no matter what the storage medium.
 
Ryan,

I don't know how so many days could pass for me just to turn on the FS and check, the menu, but I just did and my settings are QT 24p and the camera on F5. I've only used the Firestore for less than 4 hours and my camera less than 8 so the settings have always been the same.

Did any of your footage get messed up? Because using Final Cut there were no issues and no lost footage on mine. there were a couple seconds of the coloring that you mentioned, but it didn't interfere with anything.

The menus aren't very easy to use in my opinion and there are a lot of odd settings that don't make much sense to me. You sound like a pretty technical person, so in my case I wonder if my issues weren't operator error. I know a few people have had issues with there FS-4's, but that's to be expected with anything. I just wished that they had better technical support. It may make me think twice about buying a unit for the HVX.

Let me know if you need me to check any of the other settings in the Firestore. I'm going to be selling it and my camera so the days are numbered that I can check it out, but I promise this time to do it more quickly.

Sorry, I wasn't much help.

Best,

J.
 
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