Liam Hall
Veteran
In the past three and bit years, my FS7 has 'survived' well over a 150 flights to all parts of the globe. My spine and hips, not so much.
FS7: Any way to get an amazing Redraw image from FS7?
- Thread starter Martin.G
- Start date
And you would be right. Timeless cinematic camera it ain't. Which is why I sold my FS7. It's a good workhorse. But that is not the type of camera I need most with my work. I need timeless cinematic way more often. :laugh:
Also agree about that FS7 demo. Horrible. But to be honest even in 2018 we are still getting new camera demos with magenta skin tones and soft smudgy look. It's always the same story. New camera hype, footage comes out, turns out to be more of the same uncinematic bad skin tones smudgy look.
Pretty much my conclusion too about the FS7.
Ditto about the BM Ursa Pro. Cinema DNG is great too. But if only the cameras had better quality control and were more dependable and consistent. And the ISO was real 800.
Yes! There is just no comparison shooting with a camera with a proper body for an A cam. And you get a lot of the above with the F5 as well. So if I was looking to buy a FS7 at this point I would just buy an used F5. Last time I checked the prices were not that different anymore.
abreu-canedo
Well-known member
EDIT: I just noticed the OP already owns a FS7. Seems worth it to just use it and pocket the money. Below is maybe info that is not as relevant now...haha!
Based on the OP and their responses so far, it seems like weight and usability are far higher priorities over image quality. And if shooting FS7 10bit is good enough for the OP, I wonder perhaps why not go all the way down to the GH5s.
It's light and small, gets you 10bit, and not very expensive...which will allow you to save some money for when you get back and you want to invest in a camera package that doesn't necessarily have to be a "camping camera"...like the Varicam LT or something (to keep in same ecosystem). The GH%s won't be a robust tank, but perhaps it will save enough in weight and support to make a difference. I don't know...just a thought.
I saw, perhaps the OP asking about green screen? I'm not sure if I read that correctly. Green screen is a craft that is not as intuitive as it may seem. Bad keys are usually a result of user error: noise floor on green channel, light spill on talent, motion blur, improper detailed keying for "border shades" around talent, even down to quality of light spectrum. Of course, better cameras help.
Based on the OP and their responses so far, it seems like weight and usability are far higher priorities over image quality. And if shooting FS7 10bit is good enough for the OP, I wonder perhaps why not go all the way down to the GH5s.
It's light and small, gets you 10bit, and not very expensive...which will allow you to save some money for when you get back and you want to invest in a camera package that doesn't necessarily have to be a "camping camera"...like the Varicam LT or something (to keep in same ecosystem). The GH%s won't be a robust tank, but perhaps it will save enough in weight and support to make a difference. I don't know...just a thought.
I saw, perhaps the OP asking about green screen? I'm not sure if I read that correctly. Green screen is a craft that is not as intuitive as it may seem. Bad keys are usually a result of user error: noise floor on green channel, light spill on talent, motion blur, improper detailed keying for "border shades" around talent, even down to quality of light spectrum. Of course, better cameras help.
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At this point even the FS7 is sounding too big for me!
Go the Panasonic EVA1 instead! :-D
Or yes, even the Panasonic GH5S (which by the way shouldn't be confused with the GH5)
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icarusfilm
Veteran
I have a new show that requires to be extremely lightweight traveling to very remote locations.
I have been prepping with a GH5 and I got the Olympus 17mm f1.2 pro and the 45mm f1.2 pro
As well as the Leica 12-60. The 1.2 primes give me the light gathering of 1.2 but the DOF of 2.4 in FF terms which is as shallow as I need it to be. Combined with the in camera stabilisation and the 1.4x crop it’s all I need.
QUOTE=IronFilm;1986744292]At this point even the FS7 is sound too big for me!
Go the Panasonic EVA1 instead! :-D
Or yes, even the Panasonic GH5S (which by the way shouldn't be confused with the GH5)[/QUOTE]
I have been prepping with a GH5 and I got the Olympus 17mm f1.2 pro and the 45mm f1.2 pro
As well as the Leica 12-60. The 1.2 primes give me the light gathering of 1.2 but the DOF of 2.4 in FF terms which is as shallow as I need it to be. Combined with the in camera stabilisation and the 1.4x crop it’s all I need.
QUOTE=IronFilm;1986744292]At this point even the FS7 is sound too big for me!
Go the Panasonic EVA1 instead! :-D
Or yes, even the Panasonic GH5S (which by the way shouldn't be confused with the GH5)[/QUOTE]
SamEdwards
Well-known member
I was the in-house Comp Supe/Flame Artist on Cosmos Season 1. The show was shot 90% on Alexa at 2K ProRes. The green screens weren't that well shot. I personally finished about 200 shots for the season, and none were 1-click keys.
It's pretty normal in high end VFX for the supervisor and DP to be more worried about lighting of the foreground element than getting the green screen perfect. The assumption being that you can always send out for roto, but changing the lighting on the foreground is very hard and time consuming.
High end VFX requires high end VFX professionals to create. I shoot green screens and other VFX elements all of the time with the FS5/Odyssey 7Q+ going RAW>Prores S-log2 and the results are on par with the Alexa, except for rolling shutter.
HTH!
It's pretty normal in high end VFX for the supervisor and DP to be more worried about lighting of the foreground element than getting the green screen perfect. The assumption being that you can always send out for roto, but changing the lighting on the foreground is very hard and time consuming.
High end VFX requires high end VFX professionals to create. I shoot green screens and other VFX elements all of the time with the FS5/Odyssey 7Q+ going RAW>Prores S-log2 and the results are on par with the Alexa, except for rolling shutter.
HTH!
Having owned a GH5 and currently owning a FS7, I can tell you the GH5 dynamic range and color science is nowhere close to the FS7. I felt so limited using the GH5 in contrasty or low light scenarios, it wasn't fun. Live shows for example were not super nice with the GH5. V-LOG clipping highs at 80 IRE was giving not much room in highlights. FS7 has a great dynamic range and has a good codec.
legrevedotcom
Veteran
I still don't get what's wrong with the FS7...... this is just a quick edit... not even gonna use the clips this way, but we shot this today with the FS7 and FS7 II with the MK lenses on them. No sticks... no rig... no lights.... just handheld all the way with the FS7 handle.
Just wanted to test a quick grade.
Just wanted to test a quick grade.
What settings did you shoot with? This was noiseworld
Im sorry but im even more convinced i cant shoot my doc with FS7 after seeing this. Looks unsharp. A RED may not have been a better gun if this was lowlight. But i want something more than what FS7 can give me. I want 16 bit raw, and F55 feels so 2012.
legrevedotcom
Veteran
Noiseworld even? 
I intentionally added grain to the footage... if you are referring to the steamer footage that was to be expected with the 100 and 150 fps in availble light.
But honestly... if you are THAT focused on what camera your doc is going to be shot on, chances are it's already headed in the wrong direction. People wont give a damn about what camera you shot it on, but they will turn off the tv if spent all your energy worrying if this or that camera will tell a better story. Take a step back... go research previously succesful docs and look at their footage. If you take a look at Esquires list of all time greatest docs, half of them are a fun mix of all kinds of footage... they still work... because the story is there. You could shoot it with a 8mm bolex...
I intentionally added grain to the footage... if you are referring to the steamer footage that was to be expected with the 100 and 150 fps in availble light.But honestly... if you are THAT focused on what camera your doc is going to be shot on, chances are it's already headed in the wrong direction. People wont give a damn about what camera you shot it on, but they will turn off the tv if spent all your energy worrying if this or that camera will tell a better story. Take a step back... go research previously succesful docs and look at their footage. If you take a look at Esquires list of all time greatest docs, half of them are a fun mix of all kinds of footage... they still work... because the story is there. You could shoot it with a 8mm bolex...
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What camera was Planet Earth shot on?
Ambition should not to be laughed at. The main TV channel in Norway now even specifies that they are looking for "RED projects". Yes, shot on RED. Its in their purchase lists. Along with higher demands for script, development of story, and planning before shooting.
The RED image just looks sharper than the FS7 one. Heck, i even think FS700 has a much better image through Odyssey 7Q than the FS7. Frankly, i was disappointed when i switched camera. But i still like the FS7 so much that im not selling it even if i ever buy a RED in the near future. Its great for one man jobs.
Some projects demand different stuff than 8mm Bolex. How would you have enjoyed Barry Lyndon if shot on a cheapo cam? The gimmick with candlelights and dank interiors is part of the film. The biggest difference between Planet Earth and Planet Earth 2 was the cameras and technique. They both featured snow leopards in snow...
Martin - I don't believe anyone is laughing at your ambition. And if you feel so strongly about a certain camera's image-making abilities over another model / brand - then by all means - go that route. But I also feel legrevedotcom's point is a valid one. If you string a bunch of beautiful shots together, us gear heads & tech folks may very well talk about how great your doc looks or how well shots were exposed. But if the story doesn't engage, interest, entertain or present a unique point of view - then it's likely those images won't get seen by as many people.
Personally - I also feel "workflow" should be a large part of your decision as well.
Personally - I also feel "workflow" should be a large part of your decision as well.
The one photo I made that went all over the world was made with my girlfriends camera, with film that was over-date and handheld with 200mm cheap zoom through a window.
Nobody complained about the camera or the grainy shot, they were happy to have a photo of the El-Al Boeing going down in a apartment block in Amsterdam.
I enjoyed Planet Earth, but after a while 'the string of beautiful shots' got boring. I did enjoy 'the making of' , more drama and story.
By the way I am writing this on a fast ASUS notebook, 32 ram, usb 3.0 ssd and wifi, but I am afraid no-one will notice.
Nobody complained about the camera or the grainy shot, they were happy to have a photo of the El-Al Boeing going down in a apartment block in Amsterdam.
I enjoyed Planet Earth, but after a while 'the string of beautiful shots' got boring. I did enjoy 'the making of' , more drama and story.
By the way I am writing this on a fast ASUS notebook, 32 ram, usb 3.0 ssd and wifi, but I am afraid no-one will notice.
I know. Mostly im thinking about the story and concept art. This thread is my only consideration regarding the camera and im not spending too much time thinking on it or doing tests (yet). But i made this thread because ive really made up my mind - but as a father i was kind of hoping to be persuaded to save the money and spend them on family instead. But this month the main broadcaster literally said they give priority to "RED projects" now so, i think im going with a budget RED.
REDs extended HDR DR is really persuasive when it comes to the landscape shots that i have high ambitions for. The more casual shots with the actor wont have much benefit from a RED. Perhaps better skin tones. But a colorist can do magic too.
This is why I'd say go FS7 over a RED.
In fact if you're to buy any camera I'd suggest a GH5 or GH5S over a RED, to bring along as secondary camera to your FS7.
As you might have days when you want to bring along something even smaller and lighter than the FS7, or with much better weather proofing than you could have with the FS7.
A camera which gets the shot is 1000x better than one that doesn't.
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Dunno if that is true about the F55 (doesn't come up for sale that often), but certainly the F5 prices have taken a hard hit since new and I imagine the F55 is similar. Wouldn't want to buy an F55 new today, but an F55/F5 would be a great buy secondhand.
Sony wireless can give you two extra channels with the smartshoe on the FS7 (and no wires either).
Martin - you are revealing your hand - minimal crew - I'd rate low mass very highly
I'd be leaning strongly towards a Panasonic EVA1 (with GH5S/GH5 B cam), that thing is crazy compact! (although if you own an FS7 already, makes sense to just stick with that)
dmitrizigany
Veteran
If you have the back extension thingie, you could buy an Atomos Shogun Inferno and shoot in ProRes RAW to squeeze out a little extra from the FS7?
Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
@IronFilm,
1) Please show me any instance where you could buy a used F55 for less than a used FS7. A used F55 will always be worth more than a used FS7, therefore has more resale value, and that is not open to debate. Of course, the F55 may be out of someone's league or more camera than someone can handle, but that is a different kettle of fish. The F55 is just as relevant and current as it was when it was introduced 5 years ago. There is still no camera that can do what it can do for anywhere near that price point and nothing is going to make it outdated until FF sensors or 8K become absolutely necessary. Mine has paid for itself many times over and continues to be the best cash cow I have owned since the old Betacam days. Tremendous ROI on an F55 if you know how to shoot and run your business.
2) Are you seriously trying to put Sony's prosumer UWP mic system in the same league as the DWR series? What a laugh. You are obviously illinformed and should do a little more homework before posting. Perhaps you would say tha a Kia is in the same league as Jaguar just because they have four wheels.
1) Please show me any instance where you could buy a used F55 for less than a used FS7. A used F55 will always be worth more than a used FS7, therefore has more resale value, and that is not open to debate. Of course, the F55 may be out of someone's league or more camera than someone can handle, but that is a different kettle of fish. The F55 is just as relevant and current as it was when it was introduced 5 years ago. There is still no camera that can do what it can do for anywhere near that price point and nothing is going to make it outdated until FF sensors or 8K become absolutely necessary. Mine has paid for itself many times over and continues to be the best cash cow I have owned since the old Betacam days. Tremendous ROI on an F55 if you know how to shoot and run your business.
2) Are you seriously trying to put Sony's prosumer UWP mic system in the same league as the DWR series? What a laugh. You are obviously illinformed and should do a little more homework before posting. Perhaps you would say tha a Kia is in the same league as Jaguar just because they have four wheels.
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