Any P2 Card Failure stories?

J

Jim Simon

Veteran
While tapeless recording does offer many advantages, it also presents one potentially disastrous disadvantage. The failure of a media card and the loss of everything on it. I won't doubt there are some "horror stories" out there, but this is something we just didn't worry too much about with tape. At least I never lost any sleep over it.

So, as I try and decide between the 150 and the 170, I'd like to hear from folks about their experience with the recording media form both cams. Experiences good and bad are most helpful, especially when specifics are offered regarding the brand/model of cards used.

Thanks.
 
Tape can fail just as easily as anything else, especially because it is dependent on mechanics to function. P2 is the most dependable solid state media you can buy (A or E series).
 
I am on the same boat as Gary. It may have felt a little sketchy at first but I have been mostly P2 for the last year and I love it.

The only time I had an issue is when I ejected a card while it was recording. I had 1 full card in and one with a few minutes left with a presentation that was wrapping up. I got worried and decided to pop a new card in but by mistake I ejected the active card, not the full one. When I reviewed the clip I noticed an X on top of it. Actually I don't even think I noticed it until I got home and transferred the cards that there was a problem. I put the card back in, selected REPAIR CLIP, copied the card again and all was well. I was probably on the verge of a minor heart attack until I saw that I had all of my footage, but that was an operator error, not a card failure. I shoot on the HVX200, not the 2 you are researching, but the P2 workflow is a dream. It is all about learning the workflow and getting confident with it.

Good luck on your decision.

Cole
 
Tape can fail just as easily as anything else, especially because it is dependent on mechanics to function.
Click to expand...
I disagree that it's all that easy, for even if the worst happens and a tape breaks, you can always repair it and get back most of what's on the tape. If a solid state card fails, you lose it all.

P2 is the most dependable solid state media you can buy
Click to expand...

No offense but, I wasn't really looking for a marketing slogan. I was hoping for some real world experience with specifics. Saying you personally have never had a card so much as glitch, along with the exact brand/model/size of cards used, along with frequency of use, etc. That's the kind of information that's really useful.
 
Try shooting HDV and repairing broken tape and then get back to me.

Youv've gotten opinions, for better or worse. You want detailed statistics? Run them yourself.
 
Jim, this has been the #1 site for P2 users since it came out. We were the go-to place for information on the HVX200 back in 2005. You'll find more P2-based information on this site than anywhere else in the world. There's 120,000 HVX200s out there in use, accounting for upwards of 80% of the tapeless broadcast industry.

Search long and hard, and I don't think you'll EVER find a story of a P2 card failure. You'll find stories about user error, but in the five+ years of this forum, I don't know that I've ever heard of anyone having a failure on a P2 card.
 
Yes, If tapeless camera is a big concern to you, than,you have a lots of HDV choices. I'm sure you can find one right around the 1k, even cheaper than 150.
 
Barry_Green said:
I don't think you'll EVER find a story of a P2 card failure.
Click to expand...

Saw a few back when the 200 first came out. That was a while ago, however. The location of such reports escapes me. (Which is why I was asking again here.)

In any event, whatever their current reliability, the media is just way over my budget. I could get a second 150 for the price of the P2 cards I'd need.

Thanks, guys.
 
I have to chime in. When I was working in a broadcast facility we had at least two Beta-SP tape breaks a month. This is with mandatory weekly cleanings. I have personally never had a Mini-DV tape break but I have had several unspool during playback. With proper techniques and procedures along with professional products tape can be a very solid media. That being said I am very glad that 100% of my current workload is T2i and HVX-200. Of the 2 my HVX is rock solid. I have had several issues, none of which were complete disasters, with clips on the SD card from the T2i. If you are worried about P2 being expensive then try to think of the cost amortized over the life of the card. Extremely conservative estimates from Panasonic but the E cards at 5 years and A cards at 10 years. That is filling and transferring completely once a day for either the 5 or 10 years. Even if you buy $4 tapes that would be $7300 worth of tape over five years compared to a $949 64 gig P2 E-series. With this saving you can afford a very nice RAID to store your footage.

I have spliced 1/4" and 1/2" audio tape, VHS tape and film. Splicing Mini-DV tape sounds like a nightmare.
 
Gary Huff said:
Try shooting HDV and repairing broken tape and then get back to me.
Click to expand...

I have to agree on this one. I've shot tape for years and had this discussion at the TV station I work at with those who balk at the cost of P2. I've seen mini dv tapes break, as well as DVC Pro tapes and 3/4" tapes. Besides breaking, they get creased, caught up in the deck or unspooled. I've also seen plenty of hits in crucial spots, and we replace our field tapes regularly. While repair is sometimes possible, the solution is often to trash it.

While I have more limited experience with P2, our next cameras are going to be HPX370s and 170s, so I'll have more ample time to get used to the work flow. I also plan on investing in a similar gear package for my own freelance and documentary work. I think beyond the monetary cost, you have to consider the convenience of the work flow, (no more real-time capture and features like pre-record, viewing and deleting unwanted clips in camera to name a few) which is huge for quick a turnaround like a news operation. If deadlines are less pressing, it may not be as big of an issue, but it's a much more robust and user friendly format than AVCHD in my opinion. It's a personal choice, but I have yet to meet anyone who shoots P2 that doesn't love it.
 
Barry_Green said:
Search long and hard, and I don't think you'll EVER find a story of a P2 card failure.
Click to expand...

But you will find at least one story of someone leaving one in their pocket, running it through the washing machine, and it still working. Wish I could find the thread now -- that was years ago.
 
jim, there is no 100% foolproof anything out there and no camera is going to be all things to any one person. and its looking like your money may be better suited to the 150.

spec for spec the 170 is a better camera. are those specs going to matter to what you do? dunno. you are probably the best judge of that.
are those specs worth the extra dollars? you may not know until you find yourself in a situation where it would matter. and you'll be kicking yourself for not plopping down the extra ducketts. but nobody can make that choice for you. all we can do is share our experience. whether or not it's applicable to your workflow, documentable or just kool-aid ; )

here is a page full of hmc150 footage:
http://vimeo.com/groups/HMC150/videos/9124187

if you like what you see and if that speaks to the kind of work you do. then your mind should be eased.

however,

STATISTICALLY, P2 is a more reliable storage medium than SD cards. i have never heard anyone say otherwise. i seem to recall even a manufacturer saying it at one point. can i quote anyone or cite a link? no. its just a frequent (if not understood) sentiment.

but if it makes you feel better - i have been using 8 and 16 gig r-series P2 cards in my hvx200 and hpx170 for going on 4 years now and "have never had a card so much as glitch"
do you need me to look up their serial numbers or manufacture date ; )
 
Last edited:
running it through the washing machine, and it still working. Wish I could find the thread now -- that was years ago.
Click to expand...
yeah tony, i seem to recall that one. that was like the first thread i read here, that started to convince me P2 was the way to go
 
Those of us who started with 3/4 U-Matic, then Betacam and Mll have horrendous horror stories of lost footage, damaged and clogged heads etc. I will say I personally had very little problem with DvcPro tape. The capacitors in the machines did have a number of failures. That discussion is for another day. Now we have P2. I have only had one problem, and that was a workflow error on my part. If you follow the proper workflow, I cannot imagine any serious problems. I would NEVER want to go back to tape. Long term storage is still an issue. There does not seem to be any perfect answer for that problem yet.
 
So given the apparently bullet-proof nature of the P2 medium, should one expect to buy used P2 cards without fear? Any series? Is there a practical way to diagnose the condition of a card? Do they fail (to the extent that they fail at all) all at once or tend to lose memory cells (like my brain) a little at a time and simply work around problem segments? Just wondering given the cost.
 
You should be able to buy the original, "R", or "A" series without worry, because they last forever. The "E" series, however, does have a limited rewrite lifespan. You can check the status of the P2 card using the Panasonic P2 Format Station software, it'll let you know how much usable life the card has.

All flash memory has a limited number of rewrite cycles it can handle before it "wears out". The original, "R", and "A" series use SLC memory that's good for 100,000+ rewrite cycles. The "E" series use MLC memory, which is much cheaper and faster, but with a far more limited lifespan. Panasonic says that an E-series card would sustain being totally filled up and totally emptied off, once a day, every day, for five years.
 
Jim Simon said:
...I wasn't really looking for a marketing slogan. I was hoping for some real world experience with specifics. Saying you personally have never had a card so much as glitch, along with the exact brand/model/size of cards used, along with frequency of use, etc. That's the kind of information that's really useful.
Click to expand...

Jim,

My company has produced over 10TB of P2 content since buying one of the first HVX200 cameras to hit US shores. Since that first camera, we've recorded using many HVX200s from rental houses and other owner-operators. In 2009, we began shooting with the HPX300 and the year before that was the HPX500. Now we're originating on the 2700 (among others).

In all this time, we have never lost a frame of P2 recorded media. Never. Now, there was one time where we had a clip that became disassociated from its lastclip.txt file and it was recovered after the errant file was found. This was the fault of a producer, who never should have been doing her own log / transfer work.
 
My main concern is not the p2 failing, but your editing system failing. When i tape on dv I keep the tape until the product is on dvd or blueray. If my hd's crash I still have the un edited original. In the p2 world, i copy off the p2 and immediately erase it for another shoot. I combat this by having a 6 drive raid. I think the important thing to do is not be editing on a single 7200 rpm drive. The other option is to back up the p2 files before you start editing. if your not to busy, you can keep the files on the p2 until your done. The p2 cards are made from top of the line chips. its not the same junk that other ssd's are made from.

All that being said, from my experience p2 has a far less failure rate then tape. As others have said...P2 only fails when user error is involved. My biggest concern is that you can't eject a tape while shooting although you can eject a p2 card. The key here is to ALWAYS check the light before you eject. I also eject a card as soon as its full so i dont forget which is which. (not waiting until you have to switch.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top