Any experience with the 18-252mm (SCL-Z18X140) Zoom Lens

kolak said:
Do "real" cinematographers use high range zoom lenses at all?
They will never match primes quality as it's simply impossible to do on the whole range.
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optimo 24-290

it's a workhorse zoom lens of the whole industry.

it's also ridley scott's favorite lens. the fact that you can get all the incremental focal lengths is an advantage too. high quality high range zoom lens are used all the time on top end shoots.
 
kolak said:
Do "real" cinematographers use high range zoom lenses at all?
They will never match primes quality as it's simply impossible to do on the whole range.
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Yes absolutely. I shot 3,films in the last 6 months with my Cooke 18-100 varotal. If you get a good zoom, you get great performance. The 18-100 is one of the sharpest zooms ever made, and is optically consistent all the way through the range.

That said when new it was almost $70,000. However it can be had for about $12,000 in good shape nowadays.

I mean, Roger Dealins himself said, the only zoom he likes is the 18-100. That is until he tries the new fujinon T2.0.... It's like a zoom able master prime.

(and yes, the 24-290 optimo is used all the time) ni love that lens, it's simply incredible.
 
Optimo 24-290mm 12x (11kg) = £63,000 inc. tax in the UK
Sony 18-252mm 14x (2.25kg) = £7,600 inc. tax in the UK

Is that really a fair comparison?


I also love the Optimo and if the budget allows would hire one every time, but if we're honest, that sort of weight and range doesn't really help with one-man run&gun type operation - which is what the Sony lens is all about.

The Sony actually increases the number and type of jobs which the F3 is now suitable for. Last week I was live on the red carpet of the BAFTA's and couldn't have considered an Optimo for that sort of work. With the Sony I can - all for the price of a couple of weeks hire on an Optimo.

I think we can all agree that the SLC-Z18X140 is not all about ultimate image quality, that's not the point. It's about increasing the versatility of a great camera for owner operators on a budget.
 
Thanks a lot for all replies- they just confirm fact that in zoom land there are cheap, crap lenses and than nothing until 50K ones.
That's why we were a bit of confused when we tried to find zoom lens for F3- shocking prices for good ones- heh.

Optimo 450 pounds a day, F3 body 180 pounds.
 
kolak said:
Thanks a lot for all replies- they just confirm fact that in zoom land there are cheap, crap lenses and than nothing until 50K ones.
That's why we were a bit of confused when we tried to find zoom lens for F3- shocking prices for good ones- heh.

Optimo 450 pounds a day, F3 body 180 pounds.
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One wonders what criteria you have employed to arrive at your "cheap, crap" conclusion? Are you basing it upon the opinions of others, or personal experience? And under what circumstances do you plan to employ those 50-80K lenses? Much good work has been done within your classification of "cheap, crap" lenses.
 
Ron777 said:
One wonders what criteria you have employed to arrive at your "cheap, crap" conclusion? Are you basing it upon the opinions of others, or personal experience? And under what circumstances do you plan to employ those 50-80K lenses? Much good work has been done within your classification of "cheap, crap" lenses.
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Crap is purely based on what I read on web, as I have no previous experience. This is the picture which I created based on opinion on different forums.
Going to shot first live performance with probably 6x F3 cameras and stack with lack of zoom lens, which is not 3x more to rent than F3 body.
There is no way we can use Optimo as they simply to expensive.

After seeing Sony new zoom lens, I thought it's way good enough, but problem is that it's hard to rent. I judge it by look of picture which it delivers (I was absolutely happy with it)- other people will be fighting with real world problems, focusing, etc.

So is there any other lens for fixed camera which will be probably 30-50 meters from stage (which is few meters deep). I'm new to this, so have no much clue- I can judge picture once I see it, but the rest is bit new for me.
 
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I shot a live performance two month's ago with 4 F3's. We needed a medium close shot from the back of the venue.
The long optimo was way to expensive for this production. a fixed 300 2.8 was not very handy with need for a close-up and a medium close from the same position.
I ended up buying a barely used Sigma 120-300 2.8 foto zoom, in combination with my pro-lock. It surprised me as an excellent lens. Steady 2.8 over the whole range. and even pull-able at 300mm. It is a very populair lens with birdwatchers so I might end up selling it again, but for the moment I like it.
 
kolak said:
So is there any other lens for fixed camera which will be probably 30-50 meters from stage (which is few meters deep). I'm new to this, so have no much clue- I can judge picture once I see it, but the rest is bit new for me.
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Yes, there's a whole slew of zooms made by Angenuiex and Cooke, from the mid-70s on up to today.

Rentals for Angenuiex 25-250HR (the lens that came before the Optimo series) are much more reasonable. And if that rents for too much, look into a 25-250HP. I've used all these lenses in concert situations. They work fine.
 
There has been so much criticism aimed at the SCL-Z18x140 and I really can't figure out why? It's the best pro zoom lens you are going to get under 10K, unless you find some good second hand glass. The zoom function is however an absolute waste of time and so too is the auto focus, but otherwise it's an excellent lens! Have a look at this picture from a frame I grabbed (ProRes 4444 RGB 10bit) using this lens from a distance of 10 metres. It was in a very dark room at a gig my son played recently with his band.

ariel04.jpg

It hasn't been altered at all and I didn't use s-log. The only thing I will admit to is that the stage lighting was pretty good!
 
i understand the price is crazy different from sonys, but what about Fujinon zooms? for example 19-90mm T2.9 Cabrio Premier?
 
TimurCivan said:
I tested it. Its terrible.
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With respect Timur, you tried it once maybe? This lens isn't "terrible".......Nowhere near so.

I struggled with buying this lens, mainly because of a flurry of negative comments like yours and others. I should have bought it earlier though when a discount for recent F3 buyers was offered by Sony....In retrospect I wish I did so.

I've used mine for well over a year on many shoots. I come from a solid film background and know the difference between this lens and the the "film" lenses that I still own, i.e.; Cookes and Zeiss's. It's not a "film style" lens sure, but it's not meant to be.

As I say, I've actually used this lens long term, I know it's downsides but I appreciate the upsides. Like the F3 it's a bit of an "ugly duckling" I grant you, but if you actually use the lens for real you will find that it really does perform extremely well and is a great addition to the F series camera kit.

It is sharp without looking "video" and I think it is a way better choice than going with a B4 (?) adapter mount and using video lens rigs. It has a very pleasing look especially for head shots / portraiture / interviews.
It has a very nice "bokeh".
The range, especially the 18mm wide end, is very handy indeed.
You can work swiftly and efficiently with it rather than switching out primes. It's nowhere near as heavy as my Cooke zooms and can be mounted quickly without support and having to dress it up with matte boxes etc.
The auto functions are not swift, but they are dead on, and I like the way they move very smoothly between minor corrections of focus and exposure, almost imperceptibly.....It's saved my arse on many a shoot where setup and shoot time was at a premium and I was working short handed.

Yes, the zooming on the F3 is nasty, "terrible" as you'd say. No question, agreed. But I never have used this lens as a zoom, just as a variable prime. Quickly find the focal length I need and press record. Great for interviews when you need to quickly change the image size on the fly. Exposure and focus keeps up through the changes very well. Dead on in fact.

It wasn't truly a close match in look and texture to the CP-2 Primes I used to own too, but the look wasn't too far off and after grading there's no definable difference that I could see when the two types of glass were cut together in a piece.

When paring down my F3 kit recently to switch to another camera system, ( Ikonoskop DII, yes...way different! ), I struggled with either selling this lens or my CP-2 Prime set. I sold the CP's because I felt the zoom would be more useful to me while I still owned the F3. That was a good decision.

The 18-252 is not pricey, the closest lens to it in function would likely be the Cabrio, I've never used that but for another $25K I'd expect a way better piece of kit. The Sony is light, balances ok on the F3 albeit as a support mounted rig, handheld would be difficult but then handheld with any lens on the F3 isn't a happy experience. Shoulder mount? I don't know, never tried that as I don't have that kind of setup for the F3, but it should be ok I think. The lens has a great range too and I have never had a problem with the decreasing aperture on the longer end, the sensitivity of the F3 easily compensated for that and I suspect with the F5/F55 this will prove to be even more of a non issue.

For those of us that came "up" to the F3 and S35 sensor cameras from the EX series this lens gives the F series a very familiar work flow and function, and that is I believe something of real value. I have just bought a PMW 200 for "running around, travel light" shoots and I realise once again how valuable a full auto lens rig can be. I can be as much and even more so a "purist" as any of us that used to, and maybe like me still do, stuff film mags but I have been extremely happy with having those full auto options available on the F3 as well.

So I believe the lens has a valuable place in the F3 arsenal, ( I don't have nor have I used the F5 / F55 ), it certainly does in mine for as long as I continue to own the F3, and this opinion is based on actually using the lens real time, on jobs and not just testing. As said back in this post, I don't regret buying and using this lens one little bit, on the contrary it's been a valuable asset.
 
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I totally agree with petermulllett above. It's never going to replace my primes and the powered zoom is a bit pants, but for a very usable 18-252mm solution for lower budget jobs, it's works surprisingly well. (It looks even better on the F5 too!). There's nothing else that comes close in that price range, unless you start thinking about stills lenses with an adaptor... and we all know how well they work in a run-n-gun documentary environment.
 
I just spent two weeks in the Amazon with this lens and found it worked just fine. It's also very sharp, very even in sharpness throughout the zoom range, and color and contrast very neutral. I have shot quite a few hours with this lens and can't see how it could be described as "terrible." I intercut with my 11 - 16 and have also intercut with Ultra Primes - it may not be outstanding lens optically, but its very decent and very important for me, has very little flaring as many of the still lenses do. Focus rotation is OK - somewhere between a still and cinema lens. My biggest gripe is the lousy zoom servo/control - I actually resorted to using the supplied remote which worked better than the zoom rocker. Hand zooming actually easier sometimes. The drop in stop is a non-issue, especially in s log. The focal length range for what we were doing would not have been possible with any other lens. The auto focus is very good but also very slow - unusable during a shot. The Alphatron focus assist almost a must. I found the auto-iris way off, and especially ill-suited for s log. The auto stabilization works well for hand held interview and such but adds many artifacts if fine detail is in the frame. It's nice to have but you have to use it carefully. The lens is surprisingly light, despite its size, and the build quality fine, even with its plastic parts. It survived some fairly rough treatment. I would like to hear negative comments from anyone who actually owns this lens - it works fine for $10K and has no competition in focal range. I have owned many fine film zooms, Cookes, Angenieuxes and Fujis, so I am not unfamiliar with what a good zoom looks like. The form factor is the biggest issue to contend with, and I have gotten used to its bulk. When Zeiss makes a 5 lb lens with this focal range for $10K I'll buy it.
 
Barons said:
I just spent two weeks in the Amazon with this lens and found it worked just fine. It's also very sharp, very even in sharpness throughout the zoom range, and color and contrast very neutral. I have shot quite a few hours with this lens and can't see how it could be described as "terrible." I intercut with my 11 - 16 and have also intercut with Ultra Primes - it may not be outstanding lens optically, but its very decent and very important for me, has very little flaring as many of the still lenses do. Focus rotation is OK - somewhere between a still and cinema lens. My biggest gripe is the lousy zoom servo/control - I actually resorted to using the supplied remote which worked better than the zoom rocker. Hand zooming actually easier sometimes. The drop in stop is a non-issue, especially in s log. The focal length range for what we were doing would not have been possible with any other lens. The auto focus is very good but also very slow - unusable during a shot. The Alphatron focus assist almost a must. I found the auto-iris way off, and especially ill-suited for s log. The auto stabilization works well for hand held interview and such but adds many artifacts if fine detail is in the frame. It's nice to have but you have to use it carefully. The lens is surprisingly light, despite its size, and the build quality fine, even with its plastic parts. It survived some fairly rough treatment. I would like to hear negative comments from anyone who actually owns this lens - it works fine for $10K and has no competition in focal range. I have owned many fine film zooms, Cookes, Angenieuxes and Fujis, so I am not unfamiliar with what a good zoom looks like. The form factor is the biggest issue to contend with, and I have gotten used to its bulk. When Zeiss makes a 5 lb lens with this focal range for $10K I'll buy it.
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Very nice review, thank you very much. I'm not sure this has been mentioned on this fourm but you may rent the Sony Zoom at BorrowLenses.com
 
I just got booked for a shoot coming up at the end of July shooting mostly airplanes at an air show. I did this shoot a number of years ago using a Vari Cam and Canon 7.6x22 eng lens with doubler. Barons; When you say the rocker zoom on the camera is NG and you resorted to using the supplied remote which worked better than the zoom rocker, does this lens come with an external remote? Or are you talking about the remote unit that comes with the camera? Does Sony or other manufacture make an external remote zoom rocker for this lens? The rest of your review is much appreciated, I was thinking of renting a Nikon 70 to 200 for this shoot but after reading your review I’m leaning on renting the Sony. Thanks
 
I tried to make friends with the rocker operation, and it seemed to defy the menu settings, pretty much doing the same thing regardless of zoom speed and ramp settings. It did seem to get better at times, but unpredictably. I like to creep in sometimes during interviews, which was diffuclt, so I went to hand zooms, which work OK as the big barrel is an a. The supplied Sony remote that comes with the camera is quite versatile, despite looking like a toy. You can start and stop the camera, zoom, and access the menu through this little remote, and when you're on the long end of the zoom with a light tripod (I take my Cartone on locations with a lot of walking instead of my 7x7 Sachtler) it's sometimes helpful not to touch the camera and the remote worked fine. Sony now makes a more substantial looking remote for the zoom which I have yet to try - it's about $1,500 - and I am still not sure whether my issue with the zoom is the servo or the control, but I suspect the latter. I'd be interested to know if anyone has used this remote - it's fairly recent. Sony chose to make it impossible to use a professional zoom control, which is a shame as my nice Vocas sits on the shelf. I've shot many airplanes and airshows and would not recommend the Nikon, both because it focuses "backwards" and because it has such a short focus range. A lens with a smaller zoom barrel than the Sony and a longer focus rotation would be a better choice, although any would be heavy, but since since you would be on a tripod, that shouldn't matter. The Sony requires a bit of attention to focus properly, and the very accurate auto-focus for some reason takes 3-5 seconds to lock in and would be useless at an airshow. There are cinema zooms that are much easier to focus. Good luck.
 
Thanks Barons, I feel your pain with the zoom control, being the owner of a Micro Force. Thanks for the information on the auto focus, I also understand that the steady shot is useless on a tripod, the shots seems to float when locked down? I found a place that rents the Sony lens and will hopefully be able to rent the unit from them. Thanks again!
 
Correct about Steady Shot - never on a tripod, and I wouldn't pan with it much unless a face is prominent. It does work great with many hand held shots, and I have shot a lot hand held with the zoom. The lever on the zoom ring is also a big help to make sure you grab the right ring. Just experiment and look for the searching jitter/blur that comes when the lens attempts something it can't do.
 
scocklin said:
Thanks Barons, I feel your pain with the zoom control, being the owner of a Micro Force. Thanks for the information on the auto focus, I also understand that the steady shot is useless on a tripod, the shots seems to float when locked down? I found a place that rents the Sony lens and will hopefully be able to rent the unit from them. Thanks again!
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Hi Stephen, I am now back in Md for a couple of months before returning to France in July. If you want to test out my 18-252 you're welcome to do so. Just PM me.
Peter
 
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