Is there any advantage of shooting with the native box ticked in protools? I've done a few tests in AVID and to my eye, AVID treats both the 25pN and the 25p in the 50i wrapper exactly the same. I couldn't see any quality difference at all? What's all the fuss about shooting natively?
Any advantage of 25pN over 25p
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rambooc1
Well-known member
There is a difference in high motion footage when deinterlaced by interpolation, as blending leaves to much ghosting. But otherwise it's not a lot of difference.
I use the awesome YADIF deinterlacer now that it works directly in Sony Vegas Pro V 10, but only if you apply it as a "Media effect" in the media bins not the timeline. No jaggies at all, clean as.
I use the awesome YADIF deinterlacer now that it works directly in Sony Vegas Pro V 10, but only if you apply it as a "Media effect" in the media bins not the timeline. No jaggies at all, clean as.
I use the awesome YADIF deinterlacer now that it works directly in Sony Vegas Pro V 10, but only if you apply it as a "Media effect" in the media bins not the timeline. No jaggies at all, clean as.
Thanks for the tip, rebooc1.
Unfortunately, I still get bad shimmering on horizontal objects. But maybe I'm doing something wrong...
Is this the correct procedure?
Vegas Pro 10b. Project Properties / Deinterlace Method: NONE.
- right click on file in Vegas Pro's project media bin. Choose MEDIA FX... / Yadif Deinterlace / Default (processing mode: temporal and spacial, field order: HD=upper SD=lower, parity=lower)
- Drag file to timeline.
- Render.
Image quality does not appear to be degraded, but shimmer is still there.
Thanks for a short response.
Thanks for the tip, rebooc1.
Unfortunately, I still get bad shimmering on horizontal objects. But maybe I'm doing something wrong...
Is this the correct procedure?
Vegas Pro 10b. Project Properties / Deinterlace Method: NONE.
- right click on file in Vegas Pro's project media bin. Choose MEDIA FX... / Yadif Deinterlace / Default (processing mode: temporal and spacial, field order: HD=upper SD=lower, parity=lower)
- Drag file to timeline.
- Render.
Image quality does not appear to be degraded, but shimmer is still there.
Thanks for a short response.
rambooc1
Well-known member
Yes that's my workflow, except for parity i selected upper but i don't believe it makes much difference unless one field is better than the other.
I haven't noticed anthing that looks like shimmer in my footage. Sometimes Disable resample can help especially when changing speed or FPS in hi motion footage.
Here is some more info from the plugin writer
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
About Yadif: it works similarly to Vegas internal 'Interpolate Fields', but will generally provide much sharper results, which appear more 'High Definition' due to edge-directed interpolation and motion masking.
Vegas does not allow me to double the framerate. I neglected to mention it in the post, but I mentioned that in readme.txt.
So from the original Yadif, only modes 0 and 2 are available.
I need Vegas to query each frame twice with an indication which field is being processed, but found no way to obtain a fractional frame position or a field number.
Regarding settings - it's reasonable to keep everything by default. I converted original Yadif parameters for subtle tuning, which in most cases is not necessary.
First setting 'Temporal and Temporal&Spatial' can make a difference on some clips, where e.g. several interlaced frames repeat, or when there is mostly a static picture.
Here is a detailed explanation of yadif:
https://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/yadif
The last setting (parity) will take either the upper field or the lower field and interpolate the missing one. In a few camcorders one field has a better quality than the other - then changing this parameter would be preferable.
The middle setting (field order) - I hope to implement framerate doubling some day, so that it can make an importance. But right now one should keep it at its default value.
I haven't noticed anthing that looks like shimmer in my footage. Sometimes Disable resample can help especially when changing speed or FPS in hi motion footage.
Here is some more info from the plugin writer
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
About Yadif: it works similarly to Vegas internal 'Interpolate Fields', but will generally provide much sharper results, which appear more 'High Definition' due to edge-directed interpolation and motion masking.
Vegas does not allow me to double the framerate. I neglected to mention it in the post, but I mentioned that in readme.txt.
So from the original Yadif, only modes 0 and 2 are available.
I need Vegas to query each frame twice with an indication which field is being processed, but found no way to obtain a fractional frame position or a field number.
Regarding settings - it's reasonable to keep everything by default. I converted original Yadif parameters for subtle tuning, which in most cases is not necessary.
First setting 'Temporal and Temporal&Spatial' can make a difference on some clips, where e.g. several interlaced frames repeat, or when there is mostly a static picture.
Here is a detailed explanation of yadif:
https://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/yadif
The last setting (parity) will take either the upper field or the lower field and interpolate the missing one. In a few camcorders one field has a better quality than the other - then changing this parameter would be preferable.
The middle setting (field order) - I hope to implement framerate doubling some day, so that it can make an importance. But right now one should keep it at its default value.
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Thanks, rambooc1, for your speedy reply and helpful tips.
After doing some more testing and research, I think I may have gotten my terminology mixed up a bit:The "shimmer" around horizontal objects (especially those that are very nearly but not quite horizontal) is probably due to "aliasing," correct? Most likely YADIF won't be able to help there.
But when I re-processed a sequence with bad interlacing artifacts (woman with long black hair moving against a white backround), I found YADIF did wonders with it, even viewed on a 42" screen, just with the default settings.
So thanks again for alerting us all to this great little tool.
After doing some more testing and research, I think I may have gotten my terminology mixed up a bit:The "shimmer" around horizontal objects (especially those that are very nearly but not quite horizontal) is probably due to "aliasing," correct? Most likely YADIF won't be able to help there.
But when I re-processed a sequence with bad interlacing artifacts (woman with long black hair moving against a white backround), I found YADIF did wonders with it, even viewed on a 42" screen, just with the default settings.
So thanks again for alerting us all to this great little tool.
faultiersid
Active member
Since the GH1 samples at 25p and just put it into an 50i wrapper, there's no need for deinterlacing.
So still the question: what's the advantage of 25pN?
Matthew P
Well-known member
More detail, faster speed in editing, and better encoding efficiency.
faultiersid
Active member
Thanks.
I think I will just test it out for some time and see if it's worth the risk of losing shots.
rambooc1
Well-known member
That's the trade off, most people are still using the wrapper with 100% reliability. I honestly cannot see the image difference comparing 25pN and 25p wrapped in the finished product.
I agree with rambooc1. Certainly not on PAL DVDs, even on a large screen.