ANTHER NEWBIE NEEDS MIC HELP!!

B

bungalowbill

New member
ME-66 OR ME-67??

DOES ANYONE HAVE AN OPINION ON WHETHER I WOULD BE BETTER OFF USING A SENNHEISER ME-66 OR A ME-67 AS A BOOM MIKE (OR ANY OTHER FOR LESS THAN $400). I WILL BE SHOOTING MAINLY DOCUMENTARY, A LOT OF EXTERIORS, BUT SOME INTERIOR LOCATIONS TOO. I AM BUYING A PANASONIC DVX 100A, SO I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO KNOW OF ANY OPINIONS FOR AN ON-CAMERA MIC. IS THE ME-66 A GOOD CHOICE FOR ON-CAM? OR CAN I GET BY WITH THE PANASONIC AGMC100G MIC GOOD ENOUGH FOR ON-CAMERA (IT DEFINITELY HAS AN ATTRACTIVE PRICE)?

I'VE USED THE ME-66 FOR BOOMING BEFORE ON MY FIRST DOCUMENTARY. INSIDE, IT WORKED WONDERFULLY. OUTSIDE WAS A CHALLENGE (STREET INTERVIEWS), BUT IT WAS ALSO MY FIRST TIME OPERATING A BOOM/MIXER. SO I WAS MOST DEFINITELY AN AMATEUR AT BEST.

ONE MORE THING - ANYBODY HAVE AN OPINION ON THE AT 897? ESPECIALLY IN COMPARISON WITH THE SENNHEISERS? AND WHY DO SOME PEOPLE THINK THE ME-66 IS NOT WORTH THE PRICE? I THOUGHT THAT SENNHEISER WAS AN "INDUSTRY STANDARD."

THANKS A LOT!!! :o
 
Re: ANTHER NEWBIE NEEDS MIC HELP!!

Wow, these mics have been covered a lot in this forum. Try and scroll through some of the thread titles. I'm sure you will find what you are looking for.
 
Re: ANTHER NEWBIE NEEDS MIC HELP!!

STOP YELLING.


Stay away from the ME67. Go with either the ME66, AT4073, AT897, or CS1.

-Dave
 
Re: ANTHER NEWBIE NEEDS MIC HELP!!

Every time I see a post asking about the me66 and the person hasn't bought one YET... I cringe. Eventually I'll fade away on this subject. Even in this post it took me a few minutes to decide if I wanted to jump in on this again... so please take this with whatever value you want to give it. This is only MY opinion!

I had an me66 for a couple years and I always thought it was a great sounding mic until I used some other mics... at this point I consider it to be a poor value. The perks in the "me" line are the modularity, internal (battery) power available, and they have a HOT output. For cams like the DVX the hot output is a negative, not a positive... also the DVX has phantom power on-board... so what's left? Modularity.

I can see the value in a modular system. I got an AKG kit that I'm building around the ULS line. If I were to suggest a modular kit for somebody on a budget I'd probably push them to the AKG blue-line over the Sennheiser ME line... If you got an AKG blue-line and put on the hypercardioid cap I'll bet you'll get better sound with more isolation then you'd get with the me66.

Basically you have a lot of options before you commit to that Sennheiser. Also realize that I got an mkh416 and I honestly think it's one of the top few shotguns you can get... so I have nothing against Sennheiser... I just don't think the ME mics are all that great for the price.

Everybody on here that knows me sees this next sentence coming. If you can come up with a little more cash and get a 4073a I think you'll be WAY happier... and if you can't I'd suggest the 897 until you feel the need to upgrade. Another option even still is to get an affordable hypercardioid and you'll be able to use it in more situations then you think.

Maybe it was just me but I never got anything usable with an me66 indoors... ever. I was happy with the me66 outdoors until I heard a 4073a... then I promptly sold my me66 and got a 4073a of my own.

Since then I've been through about two dozen mics over the last two years... and several of them were under $200. For a couple years before I got the me66 I thought $200 for a mic was outrageous... I had a $60 AT shotgun and a $89 Sony mic... Well the me66 does make both of those sound like crap.

But once you get into professional mics I just think you can get better sound for less money. It just happens that a DVX solves many of the problems that an me66 was designed to solve... so you can use some other kind of mic that sounds better, even for less money.
 
Re: ANTHER NEWBIE NEEDS MIC HELP!!

Matt,
Save that post as a txt doc and then just cut and paste every week someone asks about me66. :D Then you can put a number count on each time you post it...You are the ...53 person to ask about me66.

I agree, the Senn. ME line had a nich to fill several years back when there were a bunch of prosumer cameras without phamtom power. If you got a camera with phamtom, there is no good reason (IMO) to get the ME66-it just doesn't sound that good for the money. If you got an older camera (this is the DVX forum :) ) like the XL1s, vx2000, etc then the ME66 is a good choice if you are not gonna be using a mixer (although I would not suggest skipping the mixer in most cases).

It is time for Sennheiser to discontinue the ME line and come out with a better middle of the road mic line. :P
 
Re: ANTHER NEWBIE NEEDS MIC HELP!!

But they won't. They sell zillions of them. Sennheiser has a ton of dealers all over the country, many of whom are dealers for only a few things. So...they push the hell out of the ME mics because they don't sell any other shotgun mics, and people buy them because these guys basically give them away. They are good enough for people who don't want to spend the cash for 4073.

-Dave
 
Re: ANTHER NEWBIE NEEDS MIC HELP!!

It's funny. When I first found myself in this racket I leaned toward the ME-66. Like I knew what it was somehow...I didn't know anything, but somehow, that was the mic I wanted. Good thing I was broke! ;D
 
Re: ANTHER NEWBIE NEEDS MIC HELP!!

I have used ME66 many times because everyone I know has one. I liked it, but didn't love it.
The sound was too cold for my taste.
I  listened to Matt in STL's review on AT4073a vs. Mkh416 and I was totally sold.
I bought AT4073 and have been in love with it so far.
sound very natural and super clean, I LOVE it.
I have heard that sometimes it is used for feature films.

however, for some reason, my mic has more lower frequency than Matt's AT4073....
 
Re: ANTHER NEWBIE NEEDS MIC HELP!!

Thanks everyone! sometimes you get lost in all of the info. Feel free to add more. I'm now leaning towards A.T. mics. Any opinion about a good on-camera mic???
 
Re: ANTHER NEWBIE NEEDS MIC HELP!!

There are a lot of good mics out there... I'm not a spokesperson for AT... it just happens that there are a lot of AT mics that are a really good VALUE.

I also like several AKG mics, which aren't very popular down here but get use in surprising places.

Check this out: Click HERE... use this base and mount... Click HERE... THIS cap... and you have a mic that was used in Bad Boys II and also in Pearl Harbor! ALL for LESS money then an me66!

This is just ONE example of what I consider to be an exceptional value. When the exchange rate is good RVA Canada is about the best place to get that AKG package...

So the point is that the me66 may not be a piece of crap... but I'd have a TOTALLY different opinion of it if the cost was $200 instead of $450... I hate to be stupidly obvious, but by VALUE I mean quality and performance per dollar... and there are definitely some value leaders out there... the "me" line just 'aint one of 'em anymore... the proof is in the fact that you won't EVER see an "me" mic used in a feature... ever.
 
Re: ANTHER NEWBIE NEEDS MIC HELP!!

Matt, I hate to do this to you, but can you explain what that base will do without that cap? What is the purpose of having both? What other mikes would you compare it to both with and without the cap?

THanks.
 
Re: ANTHER NEWBIE NEEDS MIC HELP!!

Sorry, I shouldn't have used the word; "base". The link I posted is for a modular system just like the Sennheiser "me" line. Just like any Sennheiser ME mic needs the p/s module, the AKG system needs the p/s module. The link I posted is for the "kit" as it comes with a cardioid cap, but I posted the additional link to show you an OPTIONAL... SECOND cap... a hypercardioid... just to show you that a mid-level mic, in the same price-range as the me66, actually gets used in major features.

Just like the K6 module is needed to make any of the ME caps work... the AKG system is based on either the SE 300B or the ULS 480B p/s module. Mic diaphragms don't do anything by themselves. They need proper electronics and p/s interface to operate. In most mics this is built into the body of the mic so that you have no idea what's inside... with a modular system those guts are in the p/s module and then you just choose whatever pattern "cap" you want to pop on.

Since I'm extrapolating this farther then I intended I'll add that I like the ULS series better then the Blue-Line... only because ALL of the ULS caps are really good. Within the Blue-Line (300B) I like the cardioid and hypercardioid, but I don't think the shotgun cap is all that great. BUT, as I previously stated, the Blue-Line caps that are good, are SO good that they get used in top-level work all the time... and they're pretty cheap for what you get.

I'm trying to get away from steering people into a single mic choice, like I've done with the AT4073a... There are a LOT of good mics out there. I just want people to listen to some alternatives before getting an old standard based on the inexperienced opinions of thousands of people who've never heard anything better then an me66.
 
Re: ANTHER NEWBIE NEEDS MIC HELP!!

You could get it in 3 days to your door from RVA Canada for even less. And what's more impressive is that you can get the ULS line from that same supplier for WAY less then they cost down here. It's still a pretty big chunk of change, but if you were so inclined to take a serious leap... and it depends a bit on the exchange rates... but we're talking around $400 for the 480B p/s module... That's $168 less then B&H... and they'll have it in stock. For some reason AKG mics just haven't become popular in the US... even though they're stock items in most other countries with an AV community.

By the time you make a ULS shotgun you're still looking at a $1K mic... and unless you planned to complete the kit I'd steer you to an mkh416-mkh60... or a Sanken, but if you do plan to build a kit around it then it's a reasonable value.

With the Blue-Line (300) I doubt you'd get it for much less then $320-$340, depending on exchange rates... but it would be worth checking out... AND they'll have it to you in just a few days.

But again, I want to stress that I'm not trying to cap off yet another thread with a single mic suggestion... just giving you some options and food for thought. Before I got an me66 I'd consider the B&H $368 deal that was posted... or better still the RVA Canada deal for even less... AND then have a nice little, world-class mic...

It just depends on what you want to do with the mic you're getting. Do a search and see that I like the Oktava and the AT3031... both of which are under $200, but I still use around 10 different mics so I'm just throwing some ideas out. No SINGLE mic suggestion is going to do everything.

Just keep your options open... and if you check out an me66 and really like what you hear and you like how that mic is made... then get it!

I'm just saying that *I* wouldn't.
 
Re: ANTHER NEWBIE NEEDS MIC HELP!!

Okay, I'm confused again. I understand the difference between a cardiod and hypercardiod pattern, but where does the shotgun come in? I thought that was a hypercardiod? (like the at-897)

Just when I think I'm getting the hang of this...
 
Re: ANTHER NEWBIE NEEDS MIC HELP!!

There are at least 6 different mic patterns, plus variants... but typically you only need to concern yourself with 4 (or 5).

Going from totally NON-directional to 100% directional pickup they are: omni, cardioid, hypercardioid, short shotgun (super-cardioid), and long shotgun (lobar).

An omni is a circle of pickup with the mic head at the center, regardless of which way it's pointed.

A cardioid is a HALF circle with no pickup to the rear of the mic.

A hypercardioid is like a cardioid with a narrower half-circle out the front (for directional selectivity) but with a small tail to the rear of the mic... (not by choice/design, it's just VERY hard to design a hyper w/o a tail)

A super-cardioid is an even narrower hyper, but with a typically more significant tail. (As the price of mics goes up there is usually less and less "tail" as described here... 'cause that TOTAL DIRECTIONAL CHARACTERISTIC is what's desired, but it's hard to remove the tail from directional mics... there's a TON of engineering in accomplishing this.)

A lobar is an even narrower pickup still, and unless you spend a lot for this mic it will have a significant tail and just like with a short shotgun you'll have to pay attention to any unwanted sounds to the rear of the mic 'cause it will hear those sounds at least half as good as the ones at the front. That's another reason that booming usually works so good... the tail is pointing into the sky/ceiling.

If you put this to an analogy of lights then an omni is like a bare incandescent bulb hanging down in a room... and a lobar is like a concentrated flashlight or even a laser beam.
 
Re: ANTHER NEWBIE NEEDS MIC HELP!!

matt forgot to mention the figur of 8 which are 2 cardiod capsuls looking 180 degris and connected betwwen them in face invert - so you have cardiod to the left and cardioid to the right  mix
usially used for ms recording or if you wont 2 singers on the same mike
 
Re: ANTHER NEWBIE NEEDS MIC HELP!!

Matt,
I have always thought hyper-cardioid and super-cardioid were the same thing, or hyper-cardioid is narrower than super-cardioid,
but I guess I was wrong.
Then what do you call mics like AT4073a, ME66, MKH-60, AT897?
I have called them hyper-cardioid or just shotgun,
but I guess they are short shotgun or super-cardioid.
 
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