another thread on decks - for those who are looking to buy

[chum...p]

This thread is just for suggestions, I know there are many threads on decks and their usefulness is pretty subjective, but I thought I would put something out here that I would have liked to find when I was looking to buy one.

I just bought the sony gv-d1000 deck and, having used various decks and my dvx100 for capturing via firewire, I can say that so far it seems to be a pretty darn good purchase. It interfaces seamlessy with my FCP 4.5 with no dropped frames, which are almost guaranteed with a lower-quality camera. I am sure that it will not last as long as would a pro deck would, but it will one thing most decks can't: run on a battery for playback in the field. Plus I can throw it into a bag and take it with me when I'm on the road. I cannot use it to generate timecode so if I'm looking to stripe tapes I'll have to beg, borrow, steal or rent a dsr-1500 or better or figure out another work-around. It was 999.50 at B&H. Cheaper than it would have been at Sony with my employee discount and with better customer support.

I've used a wide variety of decks in a professional capacity and I feel that this deck fits well into a my style; it practically screams run & gun. I know there are a lot of people here who have had a wide variety of experiences with a wide variety of decks, and there almost as many researching which deck they should buy, so...

Anyone have thoughts or experiences they can share on this or other decks for those who are looking to find the deck that fits their needs best?

 

[Shawn Murphy]

As an absolute beginner, I'm not sure I understand why I would want to pay an additional $1000 (or more) to transfer footage to my PC? What I'm hoping someone will explain is that there are significant other reasons that have to do with workflow, etc, that I've yet to realize, (I asked in another thread but never received an answer, so hopefully you find this question relevant enough to your original posting to answer). At this juncture I'm convinced that a used and maybe even broken miniDV camera that at least plays and has firwewire would suffice (assuming the playback heads aren't damaged or technically inferior). Again, being new and knowing that you all don't throw your money away if you don't have to, I expect there are some really good reasons you buy these decks. I'm looking forward to being educated, though it'll probably hurt my pocket to know the truth! :-(


*As an aside, I did jot down the models that are in use at my local non-profit media center: GV-D300, DSR-20, and BR-DV6000

Thanks.

 

[Sirius_Doggy]

Shawn - Even though you may be new you are correct. There really is no need to buy a $1k deck just to do tape transfers. A cheap MiniDV camera like the Canon Elura40 will do just fine and can be picked up used very cheap.
The only reason I can see using a deck is if you have a full-blown studio and want a more professional looking setup or need the analog inputs (although I can input analog with the Elura40)..........

 

[mikkowilson]

A deck does have some obvious benefits.

Of course it makes sence to use something other than your main camera to capture.. .no need to run the heads down on that.

Actual decks are built to a mcuh higher quality and will last much longer than a camera used as a deck.
A deck will respond better and faster to editing, and it will have proper controls on it for controlling the transport.
Most decks also do things that cameras don't: some can be genlocked fo use in a studio system, they offer a much better veriaty of ins and outs (get tired of switching cables around?) While a camera may offer Firewire, Composite+S-video out, and probably in, a deck will do these and then possibly other formats, Component, SDI, just to name a few.
Many decks will generate BARs, timecode, and then do other neat stuff that many cameras can't. Of course features do vary by deck.

That beeing said, for the casual shooter a deck isnt' really necesery and a cheap camera will do the job. ..Thing is, normally it's the heads on most cameras that die first

- Mikko

 

[Shawn Murphy]

..A deck will respond better and faster to editing, and it will have proper controls on it for controlling the transport.

I could see a scenario down the road where I might not want to capture the entire tape, I presume that is where "better and faster editing" would come into play? Not sure what you mean by 'proper' controls, do you mean the ability to receive commands from the NLE regarding play/pause/ff/rw, etc?

 

[mikkowilson]

Well the situation in which good deck control is crucial is of course live production and editing... but that doesnt' apply to many of us...

However, yes if you are dooing batch captures (the right way) of selected scenes then a deck will for example normally shuttle (FF and REW) faster than a camera will. What's the full rewind time of *your* deck? ..a Sony DSR11 will fully rewind a 3hour DVCAM (that's a 4.5hour DV tape) in less than 2 minutes. - That's 60mins of tape about every 25sec, Not bad.

By proper controls i mean that it has buttons on it for all the key functions. there is a button for Play, and pause and FF, REW, etc.. as well as other controls (like input selection, menu access, etc..) Most video cameras are too small to have space for this buttons in adition to camera controls. ..or some cameras now jsut ahve a touch screen -now *that* sucks!
Of course the controls provided by your NLE over firewire aill be the same for most any deck or camera - Such is Firewire

So again, some benefits if you need them, but not for everyone.

- Mikko.

 

[chum...p]

If a camera fits your budget best as a casual user then by all means, use a camera. That will clearly work best for some people's workflow and pocketbooks. If you plan on more vigorous use than what you would experience casually, it is a good idea to buy a deck which will withstand your use. In my experience and that of the majority of people I've spoken with who use lower-end cameras to capture via firewire, the pain of dropped frames alone is enough to make them wish for a better method. Coupled with the fact that, while there is an initial cost savings, anyone who puts one of these cameras to serious hours of use will find themselves having to buy another one before long due to worn heads, it seems a better choice to buy a deck.

I'm really not saying that a camera won't be perfect for some people. What I am saying is that no camera is built to be used for shuttling, batch digitizing, long hours of playback, etc., except occasionally. So again: if you're going to capture footage once then work with it in your NLE, a camera will work just fine. But at that point why not just use the camera you shot it on and save yourself the money?

If you are going to be shuttling, logging, batch digitizing, etc., it is probably time to buy a deck. In my situation this is an obvious choice because a lot of the time my camera is out in the field while I am cutting, but even if that weren't the case, I just don't want to put those hours on my heads; I'm getting back a lot of footage.

It's just about evaluating your needs and balancing that with cost. So. I understand that there are those who use cameras to capture their footage. That makes sense for some people. What I found daunting was the moment I came to the realisation that a camera would no longer work for me and I had to make a decision as to which deck to buy. As my needs were simple (capturing into FCP onto an external drive via firewire) I chose the simplest deck I could find.

There are clear drawbacks to my choice. I cannot stripe tapes with timecode. I do not have many options for outputting a signal (just firewire, USB-useless, RCAs, and SVHS), which means that I cannot integrate this deck into an Avid system. The deck will not generate bars for me (but my camera will, as will FCP).

Eventually I will either have to upgrade to a better deck or I will be in a position where I don't need to own the friggin' thing because I'll be paying someone else to do that job. In the meantime, is anyone else looking to buy a deck and could use some answers?