Another DIY camera thread

T

treynolds

Well-known member
So I know people have started this exact same thread with the idea to make their own video camera. And I have my own idea.

It started with i saw this http://blackbettycameras.com/building-betty-2/
I fell more in love with the SI-2k than ever before and started trying to hunt one down. I have always loved the look of 16mm (wider DOF than our super35 and full frame cameras) and just a nice feel to it. The footage from the SI-2k is killer looking and has that exact look and feel I want.
I have also recently been looking at the raw video from the 5dMKIII and BMC pocket camera. Considering I do a lot of green screen work the extra color space would be very helpful. Sadly I cannot afford a 5dMKIII right now and im not interested in switching my Nikon gear over. I also have not been super happy with the video from my new D600. Even with recording externally with a hyperdeck or something I still think the footage will be a bit soft.

So I started shopping around for an si-2k mini and could only find 2 for sale int he US right now, not a good sign.

So here is my concept

Start with an Elphel 353 camera (base price around $800 without any of the IO)

when im working in the studio for green screen stuff i can just tether to a laptop or desktop machine.

now the problem is that its merely a 1/2.5 sensor. Significantly smaller than 16mm film that I am going for. So I could follow in the route that Apetrus took and make a DOF adapter of sorts. (prototypes here https://www.apertus.org/elphel-prototypes )

Does anybody else know any other camera heads of this style that could give a 4:2:2 output to whatever. I don't care if its direct to a PC or what.


I will keep you guys updated with anything i find.
 
well it seems like I have the same needs as many others out there. This same idea is what the digital bolex was born from. I want a camera that can record 1080p or greater at a minimum of 4:2:2. I don't care if it means i have to be tethered to a computer to do it and add my own view finder, or monitor or whatever.

In all reality i would love to just buy a digital bolex but i didn't have the money for the kick starter so now i am just holding my breath for the next round of pre-orders. And working out a buyer for my kidney to fund the new camera ;-).

Now I am trying to hunt down a camera head like the si-2k or the indiecam gs2k but i can only find them for rent. And the modifications i want to do would not be something the rental house would appreciate.

So for now i am left scouring the internet for used camera heads like this for sale until the d16 becomes available.

the Black magic stuff looks great, your right about that. I wouldn't mind something like the 2.5k m4/3 model but sadly the sensor is slightly too large for super 16mm lenses (i believe i may be mistaken because i haven't looked into it in a while now). the pocket camera looks great but early reviews are pretty shakey. It may be my next option however.
 
There are several forums where people have listed the super-16 lenses that work with the m4/3 BMC cams. Not all do, but many.

Some super-16's will cover that sensor, but they really fall apart at the edges, where the image (I'm assuming) wouldn't register on S16. That's what I've read anyway...

There's got to be a cheaper & quicker way to get 422 at 1080 & up than building a camera though?? A Panasonic Ac130 (or 160 or 90 or Af100) and an external recorder would do it; they all put out 422 via HDMI.
 
well i have a d600 and a matrox mx02. supposedly gives me 422 over the HDMI but in all reality i cannot see the image improvement when recording the HDMI signal. I also find the image a little soft compared to some of the test footage from these other sensors.

i have actually taken a serious look at the AC90. It would be great for shooting events as well and times where i need a long record time, long lens, and full time auto focus(sports and concerts and things).

I discounted the af100 when it came out because i don't have any m4/3 lenses and was already invested in my nikon gear. But now as I start to outgrow my DSLR for some shoots its looking like a better and better option.

I am mostly thinking of using this for narrative work and a lot of green screen work really.

the more research i do the more i love the digital bolex really. It offers a lot of what I want.

One of the reasons i want a s16 sensor (or 2/3) is because i have a couple of good fujinon B4 mount lenses. built in macro, built in doubler, servo zoom, fast, good range. They would make for killer run and gun lenses. These would work on a m4/3 size sensor but only with the doubler turned on so they would't be that fast (3.5 if i remember correctly)

i think part of my desire to build my own camera is because i haven't found the right combination of price, image quality and functionality. I feel like i could more easily get at least the image quality and aesthetic out of something like the si-2k, or especially the digital bolex d16. its very likely this entire endeavor is a fools errand but if nothing else its an interesting exercise.
 
Considering you can't afford a 5d3, I'm hesitant to start listing off camera "heads". Because many of them can easily be upwards of $3k, or even more.

Lumenera Lt225 and Lt425 both use CMOSIS sensors, CMV2000 and CMV4000 respectively, and are USB3, but they are ~$2100 and ~$2900 respectively.

ASP Discovery C30 uses an sCMOS sensor (very low noise), is USB3, but only shoots 25fps max and is a 1/2.5" sensor. Only $559 though, and C-mount.

Illunis has a series of cameras called RMV, they use the Kodak Truesense sensors in them, from the same series that Digital Bolex and SI2k use, they also have Gigabit and USB3 connections. No idea on price though.

Allied Vision Technologies, they have cameras that use both Kodak Truesense and CMOSIS sensors, as well as Sony ICX CCD sensors. There is one called the GT2300 ($3400), it uses the exact same sensor as the Bolex.

PointGrey has the Flea3 series of cameras, they use Sony ICX CCD sensors I believe and are USB3 or Gigabit, they range from $695 to $2000.

Most of these cameras will do YUV422, or RAW, or some combination of them, the Lumeneras can do MotionJPEG though. Most of them are close in price to a 5d3. I've been toiling over whether or not to pick up the ASP Discovery C30, and fart around with it, just to see what it can do.

Edit: I know of quite a few more, they are commonly advertised as industrial cameras. And are usually more expensive than they ought to be.
 
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Yeah i understand where you are coming from on the price. I am sure if i were to truly build this out it would cost a lot more than a 5dmkIII and the required memory cards to get shooting raw. But like i said before this is really probably going to end up as nothing more than a mental exercise without any real building.


On that note thank you so much for all of those suggestions. You gave me a lot of fodder for more research. I can see myself picking up one of the cheaper models like the c30 for green screen work where depth of field is usually irrelevant and then i could get some nice cheap c mount lenses. 24fps is all i really need for most applications. I rarely shoot at 30p anymore. sadly the c30 only shoots at 12fps for full resolution.

the Point Grey cameras look pretty great though. The grasshopper line up has a model that shoots 1920x1440 at 26fps on a 2/3" sensor. this would be awesome because you could shoot with 2x anamorphics and stretch it out properly. ( here ) I haven't been able to find a price yet though. Hell they even have a grasshopper that shoots at 2048x2048 @90fps. ( here )



like I said, you gave me a lot to mull over here


Thanks
 
the flea 3 3mpc fl-u3-32s2 would give me 2k at 60fps and only runs $795

now the sensor is a bit smaller than i would want 1/2.8" but for the price I would be plenty willing to move down to that.
 
I do occasional green screen projects that are very complex, and I'm fairly frustrated with AVCHD and DSLR. Motion rendering and fine detail are lacking when you start to key it.

Every article I've read dealing with 422 capture (Ninja, Matrox, etc) seems to have the same results: AVCHD, even with its lesser color space, is a remarkably good capture codec. Little to no difference going ProRes 422, and ProRes noise is more "noisy" vs. a more film-like grain of AVCHD. (I haven't tested myself, but it seems to be a widely found conclusion - enough that I'm not into spending on a Ninja). The Ninja seems to do a good job with shadow noise on Nikon clean-HDMI DSLRs though...

I do have a Matrox mini but haven't tested it for capture - people seem to find it buggy for HDMI capture.

I'm coing to the conclusion that the ultimate green screen camera that's affordable could be a Red One MX - used for around $6k (if you can find one). But the lens rental sites are now carrying Red gear.

I'm curious about the BMC cameras & shooting raw for green screen, but I'd need a very good micro lens - and I really, really want at least 720/60p, so the BMC gear hasn't gotten me too excited. I'd prefer 1080/60p but would need something like an AC-160 or AF100 to get that (I own a 130 which does 720). I did just order a D7100 today and I'll give that a green screen test as well.

So - good, sharp detailed RAW capture with 1080-60 capability and a reasonable price - with a decent sized sensor, APS-C or up? Please, someone, yes!
 
Well i can tell you both cheap capture devices i have tried (matrox mx02 mini and black magic intensity usb 3.0) are INCREDIBLY buggy and unreliable. I returned the intensity because I couldn't get it to work at all even with the exact specs on a computer freshly built for it. Then the MX02 I had a little more success but still I find it very unreliable.

If your budget is around 6K then you will be able to find options out there but all of the industrial cameras I have been looking into have nothing bigger than a 1" sensor. Thats why I wanted to look for a 2/3 because that would closely match super16mm and there are a lot of super high quality lenses available for that size at very cheap prices. Hell I have even seen some with built in optical view finders which would be amazing (granted they all come with a big loss of light).

I have a feeling that what we wan't doesn't quite exist right now. At least not all of the things in one camera. We will have to sacrifice something. i.e. smaller sensor, no 1080p60, maybe 12bit color but not truely RAW

check out some of the cameras that atarijedi mentioned though. Some really nice options in there for under a couple of grand.
 
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