Andromeda or not andromeda, that is the question (long)

U

Uncommon

Member
Hi everyone, I need a little advice and would appreciate your opinion...

Is the Andromeda upgrade for the DVX worth it in my case? I'm particularly interested in the opinions of people that work with green screen a lot.

My situation--

I produce corporate/business videos for streaming, DVD (anamorphic), Flash, and online use. These are for resale or to support our other services (video production isn't the main thrust of the business).

Production standards are relatively high for this kind of environment (target market is the Fortune 1000). However, money and resources are limited because this part of the business is relatively new and has yet to turn a profit.

However I am interested in increasing the quality of the production while minimizing any increase in effort. For us this means better and easier keys.

Easier and clearer keys would cut the effort in quality product. This is why I'm considering Andromeda. I think it may cut the time in making good keys down to the point where the extra effort in the workflow would be more that balanced out (time required for hands on goes down, times for semiautomatic processed goes up).

(I spent a significant amount of time research the internals of the DVX100, the HVX200, Andromeda, Panasonics designs goals, color spaces [4:4:4, 4:2:0, 4:1:1], the compression methods used, and a variety of other issues and factors. At this point I *believe* that I have a pretty clear idea of the various alternatives.)

Environment--

Camera: DVX100B 24p, NLE: Vegas w/VASST, Compositing: Ultra 2, Capture: Direct to disk DVRack HD, Sets: Virtual, Props: Real & Virtual, Computers: Networked, multiprocessor PCs with high end graphic cards (for speed in rendering), plus good quality sound equipment, lighting, and production processes/tools. People (meaning me and one intern) have very limited time.

People are the main focus of the videos and virtually all the shooting takes place in the studio. Being "tethered" is not an issue.

Studio has three green screens approximately 8' tall by 20 feet long by 20 feet deep. This allows three to five regularly used "sets" to be always be available. Height is limited, but were shooting regular people not acrobats. Any action is mild in nature.

Samples or online versions are generally low quality and not the main issue.

Workflow--

I dislike the workflow and Mac requirements (just what I need, another piece of radically different hardware sitting around), but I think I've got a way to make it not too painful.

Flow:
1 Capture: camera-->USB port-->minimac-->sculptorHD-->mac disk drive (high rez) &
camera-->1394-->DV rack-->pc disk (low rez)
2 Rough cuts: pc disk (low rez)-->Ultra 2-->pc disk (low rez proto)
3 Rendering: mac disk drive (high rez)-->sculptorHD (rendering of cuts)-->network disks
4 High rez cuts: network disks-->Ultra 2 (w/rough cut timings)-->pc disk (high rez final)
5 Edit/Assy: Pull in Vegas and take care of rest of production details

Hopefully this should minimize the time spent in step 4 trying to get a great key. Step 3 takes a lots of effort from the computer's standpoint, but little direct effort on our part (though it slow down the process).

Summary--

I dislike the idea of modifying something to get what I need. I much rather buy something stock and then sell what I've got. Modified items are much harder to sell when the time comes.

That being said, I looked very hard at the HVX200 as an upgrade path. But when I examine exactly how panasonic is doing HD in that camera it blew that option apart.

Chromakey is what I do. Andromeda seems to be the most practical solution available. Am I wrong?

- Mark

------------------------------------------------------
Mark Willson, Uncommon Technology Inc.
"Work hard, play harder, love hardest."
 
Mark,

Have you tried plugins to get cleaner keys? Such as Magic Bullet deartifacting? I believe the Magic Bullet for Editors 2.0 has deartifacting in your NLE. With the right graphics card it is very fast, and it corrects for the 4:1:1 color space to give better keys.

Josh
 
graphix card?

you sure about that? This still seems like 2d applications, so i would say its more to do with your processor and memory.
 
Seeing how I can get the Magic Bullet editors 2.1 for cheap (low cost upgrade for DVX100 buyers that got the original Magic Bullet editor) I will give that a try first. If it works well enough it would certainly be an easier workflow than Andromeda.

With the Nvidia 7800 GT graphics cards that I have, it should provide real time rendering (11+x faster than CPU only).

Note: Even though it is a 2D situation, both Ultra 2 and Magic bullet Editor Deartifactor, Deep color, and film look rendering use the high speed graphics cards to process the keys and video much faster than otherwise possible.

- Mark
 
With greenscreen you would definitely want either the Andromeda mod or the HVX200, regardless of how they do HD. Since you already have a DVX100B and you've told us that you're on a budget, the Andromeda mod would be the most beneficial option for you.

It's cheaper, it's technically superior, and if anything it would add resale value to your camera.
 
After trying out the deartifacting in Editor 2, which I already had a copy of, (and which unfortunately *doesn't* make use of the graphics card--the film look functions do), I wasn't impressed. It's pretty much does the same kind of smoothing, softening, shrinking that I can do in Ultra 2--though in an automated fashion. And the work flow ends up looking a lot like andromeda's (record, preprocess, reload in Ultra, process, out to Vegas).

If I've got to go through the same workflow, I need a whole lot better key than what I'm getting.

I guess I'll have to talk to Juan and get a few final questions answered (including whether the DVXUser discount is still in effect). From there I'll probably bite the bullet :-)

and Matthew -

In your sample video, that I've seem before, the piece that got my attention was of course the chromakeying. Other than a tiny amount of fringing on top of the woman's head it was perfect. In my book that's the number one reason that I've been looking at andromeda so hard.

- Mark

------------------------------------------------------
Mark Willson, Uncommon Technology Inc.
"Work hard, play harder, love hardest."
 
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