Andrew Young at the Director's Guild

jlames

jlames

Well-known member
Just got back from the JVC Demo and film at the Director's Guild tonight. The film pieces from Madagascar were really nice and the transfer to film told the story that, withg the right talent, transfer gfrom the JVC w/ stabdard 16X Fujinon definitely transferred well to tape...so well that te evidence, on the Direcor's Guild large screen was really stunning. But what was really refreshing was that the filmmaker, Andrew Young, was so honest about the camera and it's shortcomings which were definitely few but definitely there. And what was really cools was that the JVC guys didn't censor him at all. They just stod ther a d took it. Cinelook got panneed as it should but the ruggedness of the camera got rave reviews. And let me tell you, this guy went through hell with that camera in the rainforests and through rapids that he called Class 4 but looked more like low 3 high 2s. Nevertheless, the environment was definitely WET and RUGGED...harsh by any filmmaker's stabndards and the JVC came through with unbelievable results.

At one point he needed to roast it over an open fire to dry it out after it got soaked and quit. The proof was in the pictures and it came back to life. But here's the real news. JVC will be offeriong a new camera package with a 13X wide angle attached. Despite 5 minutes of prodding, they couldn't ...no wouldn't ...be pinned down to a price but did say it was supoposed to be revealed this week. Also, they're still rejecting Focus' performance of its Firestore but said that Focus wil be the only partner for DTE units for JVC. The closest they'd commit to for debut of the devices certified by JVC was NAB this year...definitely a drag for those of us tired of tape and capture.

Just thought you'd like to know.
 
Thanks, jlames. I first heard of the Andrew Young HD100 story from posts following a small December seminar in New York. Your account of the Los Angeles event sounds quite interesting. I plan to be in Chicago on Thursday and will attend the event then. Looking forward to it.
 
Robert_Niemann said:
I guess, they mean the Fujinon Th13x3.5BRMU (wide: 3.5 mm, telephoto: 45.5 mm).
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Yeah, from what I have heard, it is a pretty good lens. Probably double the camera cost... at least...:(
 
Yeah. That's the one; the 13X only they were really, REALLY evasive on the pricing. I mean literally 5-minutes of foot-shuffling and never did get a commitment. They kept using the excuse of the dealer sets the price but wouldn't even venture an MSRP and really put it all on EVS and people like that. So, Bob D. put it on 'em again in Chicago. Let them know that this is a well-connected community, we all talk through these boards and we're the major part of their sales. They work for us and if they can't be honest with us, really, the independent film makers are their bread and butter when it comes to cameras like these. I went 15-rounds with them in the public forum so let them know we talk and they can't even escape the questions in Chicago. But no matter what, please make sure you make time for this. It really was great and you'll kick yourself if you miss it. Not just for the camera but to see what you can do with it and how it responds in the hands of a pro like Andrew in the worst conditions and...with most of the default settings in-place! Have fun.
 
Yeah. That's the one; the 13X only they were really, REALLY evasive on the pricing. I mean literally 5-minutes of foot-shuffling and never did get a commitment. They kept using the excuse of the dealer sets the price but wouldn't even venture an MSRP and really put it all on EVS and people like that. So, Bob D. put it on 'em again in Chicago. Let them know that this is a well-connected community, we all talk through these boards and we're the major part of their sales. They work for us and if they can't be honest with us, really, the independent film makers are their bread and butter when it comes to cameras like these. I went 15-rounds with them in the public forum so let them know we talk and they can't even escape the questions in Chicago. But no matter what, please make sure you make time for this. It really was great and you'll kick yourself if you miss it. Not just for the camera but to see what you can do with it and how it responds in the hands of a pro like Andrew in the worst conditions and...with most of the default settings in-place! Have fun.
 
13X package

13X package

I was there and saw the shuffling and evading. But what I did hear was that they are going to offer a package deal that includes the 13x lens as well as the stock lens for a "greatly reduced price"... JVC rep's words.

I'm hoping they will create a package that only includes the 13x lens. I think I'd rather get the Nikon adaptor for longer tele lenses. The stock 16x lens seemed flimsy and cheap compared to the 13x. I guess for the respective price of each, that is what you would expect.

Chris
 
Well, considering they were telling EVS as recently as Monday that there was no such deal in the works yet telling us last night all about it, you have to wonder what's real and what's not. No wonder they evaded my questions so much. I think you're right about the lens but after the meeting broke up, the President of JVC, Kirk Hirota, told me that it was going to be a 3-piece deal but then again who knows what's true and what's not with them. We'll wait and see what unfolds before we purchase our next JVCs from EVS.
 
I was at the Chicago event today and I agree that the footage was stunning. The real show stopper for me was Stephen's footage. He showed a shot of a train pulling into a train station in falling snow that I will not soon forget. (not to mention, amazing stuff of pigeons, some beautiful footage of a barge, and more)

I went to the event to decide if I wanted to pursue the camera for a project I am doing this summer and I was convinced.

Having come from a film background, and actually shooting a 16mm feature that was blown up at Duart in the 90's and then released theatrically, I was stunned. Our movie, MOSQUITO was produced for nearly half a million dollars, an enormous amount of that cost was film stock. With the JVC, I could have made the same movie and saved a hundred thousand dollars.

And in reality, most of the work we're going to do, even feature length, is not going to end up in theaters. We may sell it, but our markets are more likely to be cable and DVD release.

Sometimes it seems to me that we are always looking for any minute faults with this stuff, when in reality, it is an extremely exciting time to be a visual storyteller.

I will be ordering the camera tomorrow.

www.tomchaney.com
www.take2themovie.com
 
WOW. I'm Stephen's clips admirer, as well, Tom. But don't you have fear regarding cable delivery for those news referring the non-acceptance of HDV such as Discovery HD channel?

And about HVX...why HD100 instead HVX? When you are saying «I will be ordering the camera tomorrow», well...it's not a peanuts statement and I would like to hear why are you so self-determinated? Sorry the bother but unfortunately I'm in Europe, far away from yours and I need hear you, specially when I read Pappas after film-out screenings referring HVX between 90's Super16 & 35mm and H100 as merely 80's 16mm.

Do you compare both@big screen & 35mm film-out?

Thanks for your help!
 
Emanuel said:
WOW. I'm Stephen's clips admirer, as well, Tom. But don't you have fear regarding cable delivery for those news referring the non-acceptance of HDV such as Discovery HD channel?
Click to expand...

I could be wrong, but I think that means they won't accept an HDV tape as delivery format. Shoot on HDV, edit on something else, then dump it to DvcamHD or whatever is suitable.
 
Actually, the Discovery Channel which has a major committment to producing Hi Def but accepts all professional HD formats. The confusion may be as a result of an article in "tvtechnology.com that said, "One HD format that was unacceptable for HD production for Discovery was the new semi-pro 19 Mbps system used by the JVC JY-HD10U," which is HDV." The HD formats that are acceptable to Discovery include D-5, HDCAM, HDCAM SR and DVCPRO HD." They also said that "The biggest exceptions to this are DV video and 16mm film formats."
 
To continue, (I hate accidentally hitting the wrong button) NOTHING is said about the new JVC 100HD but rather reference is made to the unacceptabel format of the JVC JY -- HD10U. Discovery limits the use of SD images within an HD program to no more than 25 percent of the total, and no SD segment can be longer than one minute" Discovery Channel said, "One HD format that was unacceptable for HD production for Discovery was the new semi -- pro 19 Mbps system used by the JVC JY -- HD10U. Derby explained that this format created too much noise and has too many artifacts when upconverted to the final 1080i master and subsequently broadcast." That';s a 2,000 semi-consumer palmcorded that's SD and not the new JVC 100 HD.

I wanted to address this issue quickly beacuse bad information starts false rumors that can spread like wildfire and ruin people, plans and companies for no good reason. The people on this board work hard to be accurate. Let me get some info together that will completely inform you relative to what is and what is not acceptabel because that channel is one of our contract partners for which we produce content.
 
Discovery is headlong into a quest for a wide variety of quality HD content for Discovery HD Theater, the Discovery Channel and its sister networks.
 
They have developed precise criteria for HD production, including limits to the amount of standard-definition images that are mixed into an HD program. The network also has guidelines on the recording formats that are acceptable for use in programs that are produced in HD. For example, they limit the use of SD images within an HD program to no more than 25 percent of the total and no SD segment can be longer than one minute. Deliverables include an HD program master, a digital stereo audio master and a digital 5.1 surround sound master, the latter two of which must be supplied on a tape compatible with a Tascam DA-88 multitrack recorder. The prime consideration in upconverting to 1080i from acceptable formats including JVC's HDV from the 100HD is noise. Conventioal formats like in SD have too many artifacts when upconverted to the final 1080i master and subsequently broadcast like junk which fails wholly to fit the Channel's uncompromising commitment to quality. Upconverting footage from the JVC is not in this category and putting it in a basket with the 10U is unfair and misleading.

We have agreements in place with three networks and Discovery is by far the most stringent. But if you can not or do not choose to shoot, edit, archive and submit in true HD, the sea is wide for quality HDV programming and I urge you not to confine your horizon to the Discovery Channel. There's little doubt that true HD from Discovery outdistances even the closest second by a mile especially when it's produced spectifgcally for Discovery Theatre but there are a hundred different outlets for your vision that love the results achieved with the new JVC.

And lest you think I'm a shill for JVC, you must have missed the hot irons I subjected JVC's top people to in LA the other night when they refused to set a price for their new, "Killer Deal". By the way, Rush finally heard from JVC (I heard from Randy today) that the new offering from JVC is to include a 13X Wide Angle in the package that contains the camera and Fujinon 16X. The price point is supposed to be around $10,000 for the three pieces which makes me wonder which lens is being included. The only 13X I head JVC talk about that night was the one they said at the Director's Guild meeting was $12,999. Now my math's not too good but $5000 for 2 pieces plus $13000 for the 13X makes $18000. I can't imagine JVC is taking an $8000 hit to package the three together but if that's true, then I'm happy teh guys at EVS advised me to wait to order the other 4 cameras until the dust settled and we found out what the real offer was all about. That's the difference between buying from the Internet and a local dealer you can trust. Thanks Rush, Randy, Toby, Tommy and all.
 
Emanuel,

I have a hard time believing that if someone shot a compelling piece with this camera that anyone would deny it.

As far as the HVX is concerned, I've seen nothing that says to me BUY THIS CAMERA. We actually had our eyes on it, and were extremely dissapointed in the stuff we saw. Before I went to Chicago I was contemplating shooting my project with a rented Cinealta, but the show convinced me that there was no need to.

Yes, the Cinealta is going to be a better image, but is the convenience of owning a 5,200 dollar camera worth the slight bump in quality - to me no.

Have you seen Adam Wilt's article on DV, if not check it out.

www.tomchaney.com
www.take2themovie.com
 
Actually, I'm rather surprised at the sarcastic comment from someone who's posted some fairly insightful responses albeit on the HVX board and not here.

This Board is comprised of individuals whose williingness to contribute exact, accurate information to tohers, in many cases, spells the difference between 1) someone emptying their savings account to acquire the correct tool for thier work or, 2) lighting a match to thouands of dollars simply because someone opted to post mis information that was as inaccurate as it was harmful.

We don't talk to hear ourselves talk. We all have the same amount of time left after long production days, be those days as an independent on the street trying to make a film for their conscience or a producer on a newtwork episodic series trying to please a dozen bosses who've never seen the inside of a real producxtion except through the eyes of the USC filmschool professor. The one common bond most of us share is that we choose to help others in our field by contrinbuting our time, efforts and energy to like-minded individuals and impart perhaps a lirttle experience that will help them not make the same mistakes we did. So please, my skin is as thick as the next guys when it comes to taking criticism but try to make the next comment something that would benefit us all. We're all in this together irespective of whether you've been in this business for 25 years or are buying your first camera with an eye to filling the void only you can see in the film world.
 
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