Analog Component to SDI PsF signal converter question

Mike Krumlauf

Mike Krumlauf

Award Winning Filmmaker
Would the black magic mini converter that does analog component to sdi be able to read a 23.98 or 24PsF signal correctly for use into something like an AJA KiPro Mini? The bigger question is I'm trying to find an inexpensive device that will properly transmit the 23.98 or 24 PsF signal from the component out of a Sony HDW-F900 Cinealta into a KiPro Mini. I tried a $20 Component to HDMI but the box screws up the signal before it hits the ki pro so it was of no help... i know it is possible its just a matter of using the correct converter box. Thanks
 
I've got two of the BM analogue component to SDI converters that we used some years back on the PDW-330 series XDCams as they didn't have SDI out. From memory whatever format/frame rate you fed the A to SDI converters by way of an analogue signal is exactly what came out of the other end in SDI. Being in a PAL 50Hz world that only ever amounted to 50i or 25p and that's exactly what we got out. I can't see any reason why it should behave any differently in 23.98 or 24PsF. Obviously that's only an assumption on my part but it's a pretty educated guess. See if you can beg, borrow, steal or hire to check it out. They will also take balanced audio in on ring/tip/sleeve 1/4" jacks. You can download a utility from BM that connects to the Analogue/SDI converter via USB to a PC. With this utility you can set exact input video and audio levels to make sure all is spot on spec on your output SDI signal. They had a very high quality jitter free signal output.

Chris Young
 
cyvideo said:
I've got two of the BM analogue component to SDI converters that we used some years back on the PDW-330 series XDCams as they didn't have SDI out. From memory whatever format/frame rate you fed the A to SDI converters by way of an analogue signal is exactly what came out of the other end in SDI. Being in a PAL 50Hz world that only ever amounted to 50i or 25p and that's exactly what we got out. I can't see any reason why it should behave any differently in 23.98 or 24PsF. Obviously that's only an assumption on my part but it's a pretty educated guess. See if you can beg, borrow, steal or hire to check it out. They will also take balanced audio in on ring/tip/sleeve 1/4" jacks. You can download a utility from BM that connects to the Analogue/SDI converter via USB to a PC. With this utility you can set exact input video and audio levels to make sure all is spot on spec on your output SDI signal. They had a very high quality jitter free signal output.

Chris Young
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I work at Ver as a video/camera tech and we have a mountain full of them so I guess I have to bring my f900 in on a dead day and test one before I throw $200 at one.
 
will do. I am testing one more option with the HDMI box i got and if it doesn't work i am going to return it. I honestly believe my problem is the cheap Component to HDMI converter box.. it just doesn't know was any of the PsF formats are so it sends a wrong signal to the kipro. Even 25PsF which i got to record was recorded interlaced, even after the ki pro was set to flag the PsF material. Is HDMI just not a PsF friendly format?
 
Another option: see if you can find an old Miranda or Evertz converter that was made specifically for the 900's. They mounted on the back between the body and your battery. The Miranda was a good unit, expensive as hell at the time, but worked well. The Evertz did the job when it worked, but we had lots of problems with them.
 
I know all about the Miranda DVC 80 box but the only ones i could find are close to a grand on eBay and i just do not have that kind of money right now to fork over to an F900.
 
23.98PsF is a format that is largely ignored by many of the companies making video converters today. It is not part of the HDMI spec. I only know of a few boxes that can properly conform the 23.98PsF stream from SDI to HDMI. Even companies that do manage it in certain of their products omit it in others. Example being Blackmagic themselves--you have to read the specs on their converters carefully as not all of them handle that format. Their SDI to HDMI Mini coverter does, their Micro converter does not, for instance. Same with the Decimator MD-HX vs MD-LX. Unfortunately many cameras output this legacy format to this day, so it is very much an alive-and-well issue.

I am curious--what are you planning on shooting with the F900?
 
CharlesPapert said:
23.98PsF is a format that is largely ignored by many of the companies making video converters today. It is not part of the HDMI spec. I only know of a few boxes that can properly conform the 23.98PsF stream from SDI to HDMI. Even companies that do manage it in certain of their products omit it in others. Example being Blackmagic themselves--you have to read the specs on their converters carefully as not all of them handle that format. Their SDI to HDMI Mini coverter does, their Micro converter does not, for instance. Same with the Decimator MD-HX vs MD-LX. Unfortunately many cameras output this legacy format to this day, so it is very much an alive-and-well issue.

I am curious--what are you planning on shooting with the F900?
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Wow, i'm very humbled to have you respond to one of my questions.. much respect to you Mr.Papert. I purchased the Blackmagic Analog to SDI converter and it should arrive thursday and was told by fellow camera friends that it should do the trick F900 to KiPro :). As for what I am shooting, it will mostly be any freelance work I might get, personal projects, etc. Same thing I use my Varicam H and HVX200 for. I don't work as an operator much anymore given i am a full time camera tech at VER here in Chicago, but the 900 was one of those cameras I always wanted and how I have one. I'm probably one of the few people today that would get this excited over a camera as old as a 900 or Varicam H, but, I still really love the image I can create with these tools and I still find them useable among the HDSLR and 4K craze.
 
Even though the original 900 is absolutely ancient now(actually older than my last Betacam), I always really liked the image. If you wanna have some fun, open up the side panel(operator side) and look inside. It looks like something the army designed 40 years ago. And what's REALLY crazy, B&H still lists the 900R as a currently available model(special order) and priced at a whisker over $80,000! And the original 900's, at one point, were well over $100K.
 
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Good news. everything works perfectly! Thanks for all your guys' help! Lesson learned.. PsF and HDMI are NOT friends.
 

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Update: I ended up returning everything and bought the SDI back panel for the F900 from Adorama. Will be much easier to work with
 
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